J.E. Sawyer On Fallout Firearms

[bloodbathmaster2]

J.E. made a point that kind of made me realize why he shouldn't ever fuck with Fallout's skill division of firearms...

why are the firearm skills the only skills in Fallout that are are designed for replacement due to inevitable obsolesence? Because that's how the Fallout team intended it.. Small guns were always "supposed" to be replaced by energy weapons in the late game.

Energy weapons are tough because they were designed to be tough, period. They were intentionally designed to be better than comparable weapons in either the big guns or small guns categories.

Sniper Rifle: 14-34 damage, 50 range, 6 AP
Laser Rifle: 25-50 damage, 45 range, 5 AP

Except for the inexplicable 5 hex range difference, the laser rifle is just better than the sniper rifle. This is what I was suggesting should be changed a few posts ago. I'll get back to this later.

My obvious response to this was that if the game was designed so that combat oriented charaters must focus constantly on new types of firearms, why is it a problem? The post-nuclear genre is all about survivability, about dropping your gun for a bigger one.

Sawyer's resopnses which make little sense, combined with his arrogence and desire to change what I see as canon are really pissing me off.

[Saint_Proverbius]

It seems like all anyone is capable of doing in this forum anymore is bitch, moan, and try to shoot down anyone elses idea.

IF you want people to do nothing but praise whatever you say without putting any thought in to it, perhaps you need to find a different forum.

Hey, I have an idea... if you think it's stupid, unrealisitc, or too powerful DON'T USE THEM WHEN YOU PLAY FO3! Everyone who wants to has the freedom to. Isn't that what the FO series is all about? Making the character you want and still being able to have fun?

Hey, you're right! That'd be a good reason to include magic spells too! Fallout with magic spells would allow more options of play, and if you don't like it, you don't have to use it!

You seem to forget that if a character was using two pistols, as Sawyer has already stated, they will recieve a LARGE penalty.

You seem to forget that by the time you get something like a gauss pistol, you can negate all those penalities with skills and perks. The point is that if he's trying to do away with the problem of something getting so uber late in the game, like the Turbo Plasma Rifle in Fallout, he's doing the worst possible thing to achieve that since he's basically making the gauss pistols that uber.

As the system is now... you have to invest in one skill for the first %50 of the game in order to use the weapons you have access to, and another skill the second %50 just to remain competitive.

Which wasn't even true for Fallout, and it's definitely not true for Fallout 2.

You can stick with Melee the entire game and beat it rather easily in Fallout. You can be a pistoleer with the One Hander trait and stick with Small Arms in Fallout. In Fallout 2, you had some pretty powerful Big Guns class weapons as well as Small Arms.

Which part of that don't you get?

[Franz Schubert]

Dual wielding is a bad idea because in order to balance things, they will have to either apply big penalties when you dual wield, or they will have to nerf the pistols themselves. The first one screws the dual wielder by making it pointless to dual wield, and the second one screws a non-dual wielder by making pistols useless to them.

Hey, I have an idea... if you think it's stupid, unrealisitc, or too powerful DON'T USE THEM WHEN YOU PLAY FO3! Everyone who wants to has the freedom to. Isn't that what the FO series is all about? Making the character you want and still being able to have fun?

You have to remember, just because someone chooses not to use a particular part of a game, it doesn't mean he won't be affected by it. It's like the shit-on-a-sandwich analogy: If someone shits on your sandwich, would you seriously eat the part that the shit "didn't touch"? No, you wouldn't. Basically, I hope they don't do anything to the game that locks players into specific types of grooves. I like the freedom the first two games gave us, and I don't want to see this turn into FO:BOS, where they are giving the player 3 characters to pick from, each with a (supposedly) different personality/style.

As the system is now... you have to invest in one skill for the first %50 of the game in order to use the weapons you have access to, and another skill the second %50 just to remain competitive.

Even if this were true (which it is not in FO1 & 2, as SP explained several times), I don't see anything terribly wrong with it. In fact, it would be more realistic, if someone in the wasteland specialized in one skill and ignored everything else, he wouldn't last very long. I hope they make it equally viable to:
1.) Specialize in one skill the entire game
2.) Branch out with all types of weapons (like "jack of all trades")
3.) *IMPORTANTLY* Allow for any mix of the two choices above

One last thing: as I described in great detail in an earlier post on Page 2 of this thread, the best way to balance weapon "power" is to restrict the ammo supply for the supposedly "overpowered" weapons. All ammo should be scarce, but the ammo for the really good weapons (energy/minigus etc.) should be even scarcer. That way, someone who uses a pistol the whole game will have a weaker weapon, but won't have as many problems with ammo shortages as a player using mainly an energy weapon or rocket launcher.

This also helps balance "specializing in one weapon" versus "specializing in many weapons". If you choose the latter, you won't be as proficient with your weapons, but you can switch types if you run low/out of ammo of another type.

[Rosh]

And that was Terminator, not 50's sci-fi pulp.

Yeah, well if you want to get picky about what's 50's sci-fi pulp, a single person holding a minigun certainly isn't. And neither is the power armour. If you want armor in 50's sci-fi pulp you get in a tank, that's about it.

Fallout is NOT solely based on 50's sci-fi, it's also about having a character that can kick a ton of ass... otherwise there would never have been characters toting miniguns themselves.

Amazing, you go ahead and post another dose of stupid without having a clue of what you're talking about, and I'm not even going to touch on the akimbo topic.

Just have a talk with your parents before you make yourself look even more stupid, kid.

Fallout wasn't just based on 50's sci-fi pulp and movies, but that's the main basis for the setting. Arbitrary deviations from the established setting for "cool" factor is just purely piss-poor design no matter how you dice it.

[SuperH]

Right, this topic was already split once because of flames, try and get it again.

Ok, you don't like my explanation as to why akimbo guns would fit, let's see a real explanation as to why, in your opinion, they wouldn't. I'm being serious here I'm not asking for some piss poor sarcastic shit that'll get this merged with the existing "fallout guns gone horribly wrong" thread in the wasteland, let's see some productivity no? At least my post was an argument, and not "Hoohaa my view of fallout is better than yours, you're stupid". kthxby

[EvoG]

Curious...what 'exactly' is everyone up in 'arms' about ( Eye'M cleVAR! ) regarding akimbo?

Is it that akimbo isn't 'Fallout-y'?

or

Is it that people don't feel that akimbo is a viable method of pistol combat, period?

If its the prior, then why isn't it Fallout-y...and if it's the later, though I've posted before how akimbo is difficult at best in real life, anyone can pick up and fire two pistols if they want, regardless of the end result, its perfectly doable, so whats the problem there?

Blargfarg!

[Nuka Cola]

You guys are all afraid of change. And with IPLY's track record, I can't blame you.


But do you honestly in your hearts want Fallout 3 to be the same mechanics? Not 3d? Nothing?

I certainly want something new. Fallout and Fallout 2 are great games. But it's time for a change.

The 50's feel is good. But I mean, akimbo weapons have been shown in Fallout loaders and install screens forever. If executed correctly, with penalties, as JE says, it could be awesome. I mean, think of it; your legs are crippled, you're out of stim, and low on rounds. There's super mutants coming. Only one option left; take out two, and FIRE LIKE A CRAZYMAN!

It could be done right. You guys just need to get ready for a change! Have a little bit of faith in Interplay. I know it's hard, but try.

And axelgreese, you need to start accepting the fact that you're wrong sometimes - that loading screen is from FO2.

[axelgreese]

I thought you said you were gonna be the "bigger man" and leave the thread?

And axelgreese, you need to start accepting the fact that you're wrong sometimes - that loading screen is from FO2.

Yeah that's why I said I didn't care? And then spazmo made the point moot by pointing out that fallout 2 was filled with a great deal of canon breaking garbage?

yeah I'd say I've been a stickler on that point for about 80 pages now, rather than it being dropped completely in a matter of a few posts.

GOOD JOB M8

It's actaully a little of both EvoG. 1) It doesn't fit the setting, it's just a dumb sugestion like the real world weapons. It'd be best if it was just ignored. But futhermore, it doesn't add anything to the gameplay, it doesn't balance anything so why bother with it at all? Especially considering the fact that it's against canon?

You guys are all afraid of change.

Change? Why would you want to change Fallout's setting? There's plenty that could be done within the setting. In fact, one of the reasons why Fallout has the appeal it does, is the setting has "new" and "freash" feeling to it. There is alot of stuff that that could be done within the setting that would be new and exciting.

That's what's great about Fallout, it's not just another D&D clone.

Only one option left; take out two, and FIRE LIKE A CRAZYMAN!

What about talking? or sneaking? You mean the only option is shooting? That doesn't sound like fallout to me at all. That sounds like Fallout Enforcer actaully.

[SuperH]

I mean, think of it; your legs are crippled, you're out of stim, and low on rounds. There's super mutants coming. Only one option left; take out two, and FIRE LIKE A CRAZYMAN!

Probably the fact the legs are crippled is why he can't sneak. I'd suppose. As for the talking, why not? Let him go for it, unless he's a combat character, in which case I don't suppose he would be too interested in talking. He might be interested though, in using two of his pistols at once, seeing as he's in a bit of a scrape.

[Nuka Cola]

Different thread, axel. Forget your ritalin today or something?

By change I don't mean completely fuck with it. Akimbo guns isn't really even changing anything, it's just adding a feature that obviously was planned by BIS, hence the loading and install screens. And yes, the two crippled legs probably might halt my sneaking.


GOOD JOB ASSHOLE

[axelgreese]

Different thread, axel. Forget your ritalin today or something?

I seem to have forgotten... you are correct. That was the Half-life 2 vs. DOOM3 thread, yes?

By change I don't mean completely fuck with it.

Oh but you do.

Akimbo guns isn't really even changing anything

Well since it unbalances the game and therefor requires the designers to rebalance everything involving combat, I would say that it does indeed change something.

, it's just adding a feature that obviously was planned by BIS

Oh I get it now, since it's a planned change it's not a change. I forgot how that works, sorry my bad.

, hence the loading and install screens.

No actaully those were made, because the artish who drew didn't know the score.

And yes, the two crippled legs probably might halt my sneaking.

In fallout, you can walk with both legs crippled iirc.

GOOD JOB ASSHOLE

Why thank you. <3

[Rosh]

(snip another whole load of stupid)

Your problem with not understanding why akimbo guns doesn't fit into Fallout is much like your naively idiotic remarks about 50's sci-fi.

1. Guns akimbo is what Matrix kiddies want, for merely the "kewl" factor without a practical application. That is the bane of real design.
2. It's not in the style from where the setting is taken from. Large, bulky guns are part of 50's sci-fi. Whipping around 2 pistols or SMGs is a modern thing and generally belongs in unrealistic shit eye-candy movies. As such, there's no real use in putting it in now except to appease the aforementioned Matrix kiddies.
3, and the bottom line. It either serves little purpose or would create an imbalance; it also brings nothing useful to the character system. Do the math if you need to. Even if accuracy was in question, advance enough skill and it would likely compensate enough for the accuracy downside, thus creating a "saturation point" of damage, where you can suddenly become insane with the amount of damage over the already high damage of One Hander and a pistol like the .223, gauss, etc.

To the others who don't get it: Even if there was a penalty to accuracy, it could be easily compensated for by advancing the skill enough (which would require a whole new range of balancing for the sole purpose of guns akimbo if the accuracy was scaled, but there still is a saturation point) or it would become an issue of walking from enemy to enemy or waiting for each enemy to get to you, and then plugging them even harder than a single shot to the eyes would do. A balance nightmare.

JA2 has a good representation of guns akimbo. Is it practical? Fuck no.

If you want to play with guns akimbo, might I suggest BLOOD instead?

[SuperH]

Well since it unbalances the game and therefor requires the designers to rebalance everything involving combat, I would say that it does indeed change something.

I brought this particular point up earlier, donno if it was moved to the flame thread before you read it though. Using akimbo guns would not unbalance the game for you, seeing as Saint's argument was for the gauss pistol - another stupid addition to Fallout 2, which you choose to ignore.

Nuka Cola mentioned multiple loading screens, and indeed in Fallout 1, there was the fallout boy holding two guns with the backstrap, I think that was somewhere in this thread. That wasn't done by the artist in question either, it was done by the same guy who did all the concept art, which I do believe makes it pretty canon.

1. Guns akimbo is what Matrix kiddies want, for merely the "kewl" factor without a practical application. That is the bane of real design.

Ok, I'm glad you cleared up the fact that it's the bane of real design, you being a designer, and ignoring the fact that it's not what the Matrix kiddies want, it's what J.E. Sawyer wants. A designer. Go ahead and bitch about him being wrong, but that won't really matter - he'll still "shit all over your sandwitch" anyway.

2. It's not in the style from where the setting is taken from. Large, bulky guns are part of 50's sci-fi. Whipping around 2 pistols or SMGs is a modern thing and generally belongs in unrealistic shit eye-candy movies. As such, there's no real use in putting it in now except to appease the aforementioned Matrix kiddies.

Large, bulky guns may be part of 50's sci-fi, but holding them singlehandedly in combat is definately not. 50's sci-fi is not the entire basis for this game, it is used as a stylistic, graphical referance for various themes and motifs spread throughout the game. The fallout boy character, the pip-boy and interface, buildings, etc. It does not extend to combat. Since when were gauss pistols 50's sci-fi? 50's sci-fi freaking didn't even understand the powers of infra-red, as in the movie Invaders From Mars. That's a good look at 50's sci-fi, no single person could fight the martians, they used the army, and they did have big bulky guns - on tripods, used by the army. And i'll reiterate - if you then go to say gauss pistols don't fit either, and they were thrown in FO2 to appease the "matrix kiddies", then your game balancing argument gets thrown out the window as well.

[Franz Schubert]

Ok, I'm glad you cleared up the fact that it's the bane of real design, you being a designer, and ignoring the fact that it's not what the Matrix kiddies want, it's what J.E. Sawyer wants.

Isn't it obvious that J.E. only wants to include akimbo guns to "appease" the matrix kiddies because he wants them to buy the game?

And speaking of which, does the majority of the fallout community hate the Matrix? Out of all the sci-fi movies I have ever seen, it is my favorite, next to Starwars (not Ep. 1, 2, and 3, all of which are shit) and Bladerunner and Metropolis (which I only recently saw for the first time), and of course the first two Mad Max's. Sure the incredible graphics of the Matrix account for some of its popularity, but the plot is very good and the movie itself was very well done. Sorry I brought this off topic, but I am wondering: Does this make me a "Matrix Kiddie"?

Let me add one more thing: do I think gunz akimbo are cool? Yes. Do I want it in Fallout? FUCK NO.

[Spazmo]

Let me add one more thing: do I think gunz akimbo are cool? Yes. Do I want it in Fallout? FUCK NO.

EXACTLY! It's that good-thing-with-good-thing-makes-supergood-thing mentality that's the cause for so many fuck-ups. Just because this thing is good and this other thing is good does not mean both together will be even better. More often than not, they're a lot worse.

[Saint_Proverbius]

Is it that akimbo isn't 'Fallout-y'?

Ever seen Flash Gordon run around with dual revolvers?

I brought this particular point up earlier, donno if it was moved to the flame thread before you read it though. Using akimbo guns would not unbalance the game for you, seeing as Saint's argument was for the gauss pistol - another stupid addition to Fallout 2, which you choose to ignore.

Dual Plasma Pistols would be better than the Plasma Rifle as well, cocheese.

Nuka Cola mentioned multiple loading screens, and indeed in Fallout 1, there was the fallout boy holding two guns with the backstrap, I think that was somewhere in this thread. That wasn't done by the artist in question either, it was done by the same guy who did all the concept art, which I do believe makes it pretty canon.

Yeah, and if you'll notice, there's quite a few things done with Fallout's line art that aren't in the game.

Ok, I'm glad you cleared up the fact that it's the bane of real design, you being a designer, and ignoring the fact that it's not what the Matrix kiddies want, it's what J.E. Sawyer wants. A designer. Go ahead and bitch about him being wrong, but that won't really matter - he'll still "shit all over your sandwitch" anyway.

The difference between a designer and Joe. Q. Citizen is who was setting at a Quality Assurance computer at a game company when another designer quit.

[Reklar]

I think the only applicable point I've read in this whole long thread is simply that changing the existing Fallout system is uneeded and a dangerous prospect at best because it upsets whatever balance that has seen us through two fantastic games. It's irrelevant whether akimbo style is cool or realistic, or whether it is perceived that certain combat skills become obsolete by the end of the game. The beauty of Fallout's existing system is that you can stick with your favored skill(s) throughout the entire game and not be handicapped in any appreciable way so long as you put some thought into how you play.

Speaking from personal experience, I played a sniper/speech style character through both Fallout and Fallout 2 twice and encountered no serious problems keeping to Small Guns for the entire game. Sure, some encounters were tougher than others, such as the floaters in Fallout 2, but between my PC and NPC followers we rarely suffered any critical damage. The only opponents my PC could not do appreciable damage to wielding the Sniper Rifle were the Enclave soldiers with their ridiculously high AC and damage resistant armor. For super mutants I made aimed shots to the eyes, head, and groin, relying on the natural critical hit and my 20%+ increase to criticals from perks and the Finesse trait. Failing those shots, I would resort to leg or arm shots for knockdown or crippling effects. In Fallout 2, having Sulik wielding either the Louisville Slugger or the Super Sledge was just icing on the cake, so to speak.

While I can understand J.E. Sawyer's desire to create something new or simplify things further, it simply seems neither necessary nor practical. Tweak the non-combat skills to make them more useful perhaps, but the bulk of development time really should be spent on the setting, characters, and storyline, not changing the SPECIAL system that has proven itself already.

[Rosh]

1. Guns akimbo is what Matrix kiddies want, for merely the "kewl" factor without a practical application. That is the bane of real design.

Ok, I'm glad you cleared up the fact that it's the bane of real design, you being a designer, and ignoring the fact that it's not what the Matrix kiddies want, it's what J.E. Sawyer wants.

One aspect of this has already been pointed out by Franz and I'm surprised you were trying to use the above argument. One could only hope that your family line is an evolutionary dead end that will do just that. Dead end. The other point is that no developer worth their salt and experience would seriously approach a game design with a "weed sink" approach. For a very simple and logical reasons I'm sure even you could figure out. One, it causes a lot more unnecessary work, especially in balancing and QA testing, and results in a lot of wasted effort to put in for merely the sake of having it.

Nuka Cola mentioned multiple loading screens, and indeed in Fallout 1, there was the fallout boy holding two guns with the backstrap, I think that was somewhere in this thread. That wasn't done by the artist in question either, it was done by the same guy who did all the concept art, which I do believe makes it pretty canon.

That doesn't mean that Fallout Boy was firing them at the same time in "akimbo". To illustrate:

Left hand, Ready Slot One.
Right Hand, Ready Slot Two.

Or reverse them, if you wish, it's pretty interchangeable.

Just like equipping any other item in a slot, it's like it's being held in that hand.

Oops, there goes a straw man, knocked down.

2. It's not in the style from where the setting is taken from. Large, bulky guns are part of 50's sci-fi. Whipping around 2 pistols or SMGs is a modern thing and generally belongs in unrealistic shit eye-candy movies. As such, there's no real use in putting it in now except to appease the aforementioned Matrix kiddies.

Large, bulky guns may be part of 50's sci-fi, but holding them singlehandedly in combat is definately not.

How do you figure that when you have already displayed no clue about what is 50's sci-fi? It's kind of hard for you to claim that when you've posted some really superb examples that you don't know what you're attempting to talk about.

50's sci-fi is not the entire basis for this game, it is used as a stylistic, graphical referance for various themes and motifs spread throughout the game. The fallout boy character, the pip-boy and interface, buildings, etc. It does not extend to combat.

Really? And how do you figure that? Pugilism was 50's sci-fi style. So was some brawling styles instead of karate. So was large, bulky weapons, handheld and otherwise. Hey, looks like you've just shot yourself in the balls again, kid. Yet again, you've proven that you're better at wasting time typing nonsense than using your head, this time it was to the point of hanging yourself.

GOOD JOB!

Since when were gauss pistols 50's sci-fi? 50's sci-fi freaking didn't even understand the powers of infra-red, as in the movie Invaders From Mars. That's a good look at 50's sci-fi, no single person could fight the martians, they used the army, and they did have big bulky guns - on tripods, used by the army. And i'll reiterate - if you then go to say gauss pistols don't fit either, and they were thrown in FO2 to appease the "matrix kiddies", then your game balancing argument gets thrown out the window as well.

Now you're just being stupid. That's beginning to be a common thing, again.

To reiterate for those who don't have a clue, the designers of Fo2 put any ol' shit in and haphazardly. Loads of real world weapons that really didn't have any function except be there, using real city names, throwing in loads of stupid easter eggs, New Reno, MCA's numerous mistakes in the Bileball and he was one of the designers, among much, much more. Fallout 2 was barely accepted (given the insane amount of gripes on the feedback forum), the only good side was that it was larger and had some better NPC controls, but the ad nauseum elements added in poorly (and the bugs associated with all that unguided work) were definitly the downpoints for many. I and many others have gone over these points at length at a number of locations for quite some time, ever since Fallout 2 was released. So don't try to use Fallout 2 as any basis for argument as canon, since the Fallout 2 designers took what Tim Cain and crew put down before they left and tried their best to make it as "kewl" as possible.

So what's your excuse for yourself? Illiteracy or stupidity, take your pick.

[SuperH]

The other point is that no developer worth their salt and experience would seriously approach a game design with a "weed sink" approach. For a very simple and logical reasons I'm sure even you could figure out. One, it causes a lot more unnecessary work, especially in balancing and QA testing, and results in a lot of wasted effort to put in for merely the sake of having it.

Ok, since, it appears, you're far more qualified than anyone else to develop a game, not to mention decide what's good to put into the game, send a resume along to iply why don't you? Maybe you can get rid of J.E. before he can sully the setting any more.

Really? And how do you figure that? Pugilism was 50's sci-fi style. So was some brawling styles instead of karate. So was large, bulky weapons, handheld and otherwise.

So... hand to hand fighting in Fallout was drawn directly from 50's sci-fi? Someone tell me if that makes any sense. Hand to hand puglism is as much 50's sci fi as it is cinema noir, sure, it's in there, but it's hardly a key element of the setting. It's like saying that eggs and bacon are 50's sci fi because people would eat them for breakfast in the 50's. And, yet again, I ask, since when did any main character in any 50's sci fi ever singlehandedly wield a minigun? Bulky design or otherwise? They - did - not.

To reiterate for those who don't have a clue, the designers of Fo2 put any ol' shit in and haphazardly. Loads of real world weapons that really didn't have any function except be there, using real city names, throwing in loads of stupid easter eggs, New Reno, MCA's numerous mistakes in the Bileball and he was one of the designers, among much, much more. Fallout 2 was barely accepted (given the insane amount of gripes on the feedback forum), the only good side was that it was larger and had some better NPC controls, but the ad nauseum elements added in poorly (and the bugs associated with all that unguided work) were definitly the downpoints for many. I and many others have gone over these points at length at a number of locations for quite some time, ever since Fallout 2 was released. So don't try to use Fallout 2 as any basis for argument as canon, since the Fallout 2 designers took what Tim Cain and crew put down before they left and tried their best to make it as "kewl" as possible.

So what's your excuse for yourself? Illiteracy or stupidity, take your pick.

So lets see here, you 1) Refuse fallout 2 as continuing the fallout storyline, simply because you don't like it. 2) Still use the christian bible thumping argument : "You don't agree with what I say? That's because you just don't understand." 3) Can't make any argument, christian circle running or otherwise, without making a personal attack as well.

Tremendous! I'll say it again, since you obviously know so much more about fallout, 50's sci fi, and everything in general, why don't you send a line along to iply about how great you are, so they'll listen to your excellent points and kick J.E. out, thusly saving the game.

[Megatron]

So lets see here, you 1) Refuse fallout 2 as continuing the fallout storyline, simply because you don't like it.

I take it into the story/timeline, but it doesn't mean I have to like it or take things that it fucked up into further things. Just because fallout 2 had hundreds of pop-culture references does this mean that this should be a major feature of fallout 3? Or taking it even further, just because fobos has 3d hedgehog/deathclaws should these replace the traditional deathclaw in fo3? No. So shut the fuck up plz.

2) Still use the christian bible thumping argument : "You don't agree with what I say? That's because you just don't understand."

Well it's hard for you to make an opinion on something if you don't seem to know much about it. Just because a 10 year old wanted to just nuke iraq, I guess he was right even if he didn't understand? An easier way to say this would be, if you don't know what you're talking about don't say anything.

Tremendous! I'll say it again, since you obviously know so much more about fallout, 50's sci fi, and everything in general, why don't you send a line along to iply about how great you are, so they'll listen to your excellent points and kick J.E. out, thusly saving the game.

By gamers, for gamers eh?

Personally I don't see the point in akimbo guns. Fine in max payne or anything else wearing a trenchcoat, but it doesn't fit into this game. Besides not fitting into the setting, why make a new sprite and model just for 1 gun? And if you badly wanted to wield 2 guns, why not just use something like a double-barelled revolver, or 'role-play' the fact that you have 2 item slots for different hands and carry around 2 pistols. OMG AKIMBO FOR EVERY1!!!1