Forum Droppings for 08.05

[Killzig]

JE's not afraid to come here.

[Ghetto Goose]

Well he's not exactly a good buddy of everyone around here, is he? He might feel more comfortable around us, and ask us for input if we weren't so rabbid. Or at least not so rabbid that he will speak to us.

[Jed]

I like the proscription on targeted shots, and -- properly implemented -- things like this could put some teeth back in unarmed characters, w/o having to resort to a John Woo-style Kung-Fu-O-Rama.

John Woo doesn't do kung fu, he does gun operas.

[OnTheBounce]

John Woo doesn't do kung fu, he does gun operas.

My mistake. I was thinking of Jackie Chan.

OTB

[Spazmo]

Kung Fu, gun operas--it doesn't matter what it is, it's not Fallout.

[Evil Natured Robot]

Oh!! I see, yea that would make sense. I AM TEH CANCER OF TEH FALLOUT COMMUNITY, I WILL SHOOT MYSELF NOW. K THX BYE .

And here I thought that was Kashluk.

Is there something I posted in this thread that makes you say that? As far as I can tell the original post was pretty even handed.

I dunno, I figured "Forum Droppings" was an attempt to equate his comments with feces. Maybe not. And calling him "quite a busy bee" seemed a little patronizing. If that wasn't your intent, then my bad.

Anyhow, I think you could be a bit nicer to him, especially when you're not arguing with things he's said. It would be a good thing if he didn't feel like he was going to face an angry mob if he posted here. Killzig, I think you're a great newsie and have done a bangup job with the site. I also recognize that you aren't responsible for the villagers picking up torches and pitchforks. But it might seem a little less hostile if you gave him a bit of slack.

But not too much. We can't have the rookie falling asleep on his watch.

Edited 6:11 PM on August 6, to make a little more sense

[Killzig]

ENR, I think I've been pretty even as of late though I am trying to be more conscious of the whole thing. If he chooses to post here is of little consequence to me, we've gotten along just fine without Interplay support this long.

[swordinstone]

One thing I will say is, the posts are very fair and even for the most part, but the Titles of them tend to seem somewhat negative, even though the contents arent.

[Franz Schubert]

Normally, I am against changing things about Fallout with the sole purpose of "mainstreaming" the game to better suit it to the masses (RT combat, dual wielding, etc.), and to date, most changes JE has been making (not to mention FOT and LH, though it's not Fallout) have been for just that purpose.

That said, I think that JE actually had some good points here, and the new perks looked pretty good, except for the Suicide King one, which probably needs to be re-thought.

When all is said and done, a player should be able to pick the traits or he or she wants based on the type of character they want to play instead of rolling their eyes at 14 crummy traits and taking the 2 that are clearly superior.

Ok that's a very obvious point, but it has nothing to do with the first two Fallouts! OK, Gifted is very powerful I agree, but that doesn't mean that people "roll their eyes" at the others. Other traits can be very useful, depending of course on what type of character the player is making.

Traits should be equal to each other in overall value.

WTF?? Does this mean that Bloody Mess is being axed? And Jinxed? Those are two of my favorite traits, sure they suck in terms of gameplay, but they're fun and definitely add replay value to the game!

In Your Face!
Prerequisites: Melee 75 or Unarmed 75
Ranks: 1
Benefit: Opponents can't make called shots with thrown weapons or firearms when you are within 1 hex and are only holding melee weapons or are unarmed. They also suffer a -10% penalty to hit with those weapons against all targets.

This is a good idea, except I think the -10% might be a bit overpowered, considering that early in the game, enemies don't have a great % to hit anyway. Maybe increase the perk requirements? Also, I think Awareness was good enough already, especially since at the low level when you take it, there is not much else that is very great, and Awareness helps me calculate and plan out my attacks.

Maybe we'd have more input on Fallout 3 if JE weren't so afraid to come here. And maybe he wouldn't be afraid to come here if you were a little nicer, killz.

Well, gee, thanks for pointing that out. I never would have realized that on my own, since NOBODY EVER says that on these forums /sarcasm

As far as I can tell the original post was pretty even handed.

Honestly, that was the most neutral thing I have ever seen you write. Good journalism

[swordinstone]

This is a good idea, except I think the -10% might be a bit overpowered

I think OTB's idea of having the negative modifier to the 2 hit roll, be based off your unarmed or melee skill, is a really good one. This way, it scales with your character's power as the game progresses, and then eliminates the need for an "upgrade perk" later on.

[atoga]

JE wrote:
In Your Face!
Prerequisites: Melee 75 or Unarmed 75
Ranks: 1
Benefit: Opponents can't make called shots with thrown weapons or firearms when you are within 1 hex and are only holding melee weapons or are unarmed. They also suffer a -10% penalty to hit with those weapons against all targets.

This is a good idea, except I think the -10% might be a bit overpowered, considering that early in the game, enemies don't have a great % to hit anyway. Maybe increase the perk requirements? Also, I think Awareness was good enough already, especially since at the low level when you take it, there is not much else that is very great, and Awareness helps me calculate and plan out my attacks.

Whatever happened to level requirements for perks?

[Briareus]

Maybe we'd have more input on Fallout 3 if JE weren't so afraid to come here. And maybe he wouldn't be afraid to come here if you were a little nicer, killz.

Or... you could go and post on the BIS board. ;)

Whatever happened to level requirements for perks?

I prefer just straight skill reqs to level reqs. Having a level req instead of a skill req implies that being level N gives you knowledge of how to disrupt someone's shooting skills when in melee range, rather than actually having melee/unarmed skills. I think it makes the game even more skill based than it already is.

[Spazmo]

We would go to the BIS boards, but we're afraid all the stupid won't come off when we leave again.

[Briareus]

We would go to the BIS boards, but we're afraid all the stupid won't come off when we leave again.

Why do people from one board always assume that the people at another board are stupid. You're ALL stupid.

There, feel better?

[swordinstone]

I prefer just straight skill reqs to level reqs. Having a level req instead of a skill req implies that being level N gives you knowledge of how to disrupt someone's shooting skills when in melee range, rather than actually having melee/unarmed skills. I think it makes the game even more skill based than it already is.

I prefer this also, it made for easy to balance gameplay in UO. That may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it is similar to SPECIAL.

[atoga]

I prefer just straight skill reqs to level reqs. Having a level req instead of a skill req implies that being level N gives you knowledge of how to disrupt someone's shooting skills when in melee range, rather than actually having melee/unarmed skills. I think it makes the game even more skill based than it already is.

So you're saying level should never come into play? Also, that means much higher skill requirements for perks, which means 'jack of all trades' characters who specialize in nothing in particular aren't going to have much selection in the ways of perks. Furthermore, how do you plan to handle non-skill perks (ie. Mysterious Stranger, which requires a high LK and level 6?) Can people just take them so long as they have the stat?

This certainly is NOT my cup of tea.

Spazmo wrote:
We would go to the BIS boards, but we're afraid all the stupid won't come off when we leave again.
Why do people from one board always assume that the people at another board are stupid. You're ALL stupid.

No offense, but the opinions of BISers tend to be inarticulated and shallow - they want whatever they can think of crammed into a game, no matter the effects on the setting. If something is cool in one setting, hey, why not bring it into Fallout? tends to be their opinion.

And DAC pwns.

[Briareus]

So you're saying level should never come into play? Also, that means much higher skill requirements for perks, which means 'jack of all trades' characters who specialize in nothing in particular aren't going to have much selection in the ways of perks. Furthermore, how do you plan to handle non-skill perks (ie. Mysterious Stranger, which requires a high LK and level 6?) Can people just take them so long as they have the stat?

This certainly is NOT my cup of tea.

Why would it mean higher reqs? What level would you have to be as a dedicated melee'er to get 75 points into melee or unarmed?

Jack of all trades get a wider selection, but they do not get the higher power perks until they have a high enough rank in a skill. Jack of all trades = wide distribution of skills, no focus. Jack of all trades = wide distribution of perks, no focus. Makes sense to me.

As for your Mysterious Stranger question, I'd assume that it'd still have a level req. J.E. isn't doing away with level reqs. But really, why should there only be a level req on Bonus HTH Attacks? A player that selects the perk but doesn't have any points in melee or unarmed isn't going to get anything out of the perk anyway.

And DAC pwns.

No offense taken, Zealot #4-0-375.

[atoga]

Why would it mean higher reqs? What level would you have to be as a dedicated melee'er to get 75 points into melee or unarmed?

Realistically, even the brain damaged unarmed people could take that perk at level 3 (assuming perks still come every third level - has JE changed that too)? Seriously, that's way too easy to get at. Specialization should pay off, but level should factor in as well. Also, remember that most people tend to specialize in one or two skills at the early levels, then broaden out... which means that such things will come early, even to someone who's not really a dedicated melee weapons guy. (Especially since unarmed and melee are useful to more people at lower levels, instead of just the specialists who use it at higher levels but really don't have much higher of a skill).

But really, why should there only be a level req on Bonus HTH Attacks? A player that selects the perk but doesn't have any points in melee or unarmed isn't going to get anything out of the perk anyway.

Because they're broken? After all, say you put a 75% limit on it, I can take it at level 3 no problem. Then I go around beating old ladies and no one can stop me.

Jack of all trades = wide distribution of perks, no focus.

Oh well, they can always take the crappy perks like Ayyyyyy!

I think I've written more RPGs than you stfu n00b omfg pwned.

[DarkUnderlord]

In Fallout 3, JE's saying skills will start at 0% (last I heard). People forget that in Fallout 2, your base Small Guns Skill was something ridiculous like 60% - 70% right at the start of the game. I'd need to check his stats again, but pushing a skill up to 75% requires approx 4-6 levels. That's on the presumption that you're putting ALL your skill points into that stat.

We would go to the BIS boards, but we're afraid all the stupid won't come off when we leave again.

Why do people from one board always assume that the people at another board are stupid.

Probably because of stuff like this:

It’s time for another update from VD entertainment that brings you the wackiest ideas from the mental wastelands. One of our guest speakers designed a system that allows you to compare and rate video games arriving to the stupidest conclusions, another speaker discovered a striking similarity between Fallout and Everquest, which led him to the very original idea to make a Fallout MMORPG! Yes, we shit you not. As Brian Fellows from Safari Planet would have said “That’s crazy!!!”

Today we bring you ideas. What ideas? The ideas! That’s right, folks, the ideas for Fallout 3, in all shapes, colors, and styles. And here they come:

I'd also like to see stuff like Halberds, Swords and Shields, Bows and Arrows, maces, pikes, flails, Panzershreks (German Anti-tank weapon from WWII), the MG-32 (German machine gun, akin to the M-60), the entire weapons list from Fallout Tactics, a Musket or other muzzle-loader....

Muskets, huh? Would I be able to join the Musketeers faction?

A new drug that could be called p-type and it would be an experimental mutation drug that can safely turn you or a person into a half mutant for a period of time but it will only have this effect if you have a specific medical specialist give you a antibody injection that will prevent you from becoming a full mutant and will allow you to turn back after a period of time of something.

I don’t know, a new type of quest could be something like you where hired for as a hit man to kill a person and bring there head back. So you eventually find the person you where told to kill but you have a choice of either kill the person and return to the man you who hired you with the head or you can talk to the person and find out that they are incredibly sorry and they where going to have some expensive plastic surgery done to alter there face but the person could not afford it. Then the person will ask if you can pay for it and you can either say yes or no. If you say no you suggest that you can go out in the wasteland and find a no good robber or a slaver and kill them then chop off there head and pay the sergeant to manipulate the robbers head to match the persons exactly. Then you can let the person go and you can go collect your reword from the man who hired you.

Able to play as new characters such as a human like mutant or a genetically engineered intelligent death-claw mixed with the DNA of an intelligent mutant and what the hell you could even add a little human DNA in there.

Maybe one or two small islands off the cost where you could either take months swimming to or take a boat or something. Along with this you could maybe go fishing.

Now this gotta be the stupidest things I’ve ever heard. What’s even funnier the guy got upset when somebody commented on some of his other ideas but missed this one, so he asked "Did you think this was such a bad idea that you didnt want to coment on it?"

fantastic 3D battle animation form 45 degree perspective.... (diablo II) maybe with some bullet time effect.....the PC can have cool evasion move like Neo.... hey a matrix 45 degree RPG..... I think that cool.....dont forget... Metal Gear Solid 45 degree RPG is also cool....

massive wars...... and the PC included as one of the army..... the feel is so....... Lord Of The Rings` wordl.... or Saving Private Ryan`s.....

I really enjoy the CTB system of Fallout Tactic, can you apply it for a massive war scenario..? with dozens of people... and tanks.... and vehicle... with some robot and air attack..... it will become very cool....

Invasion from another waste country or planet.

Why a fireman’s axe? Why not a fusion cell powered vault axe that kinda looks like a light saber (you all know from starwars) but when it pops out from you clicking the switch it comes out about a foot and has the same look as an axe but it is neon green and slices/burns through objects.

Wow, lightsaber that looks like an ax. Doesn’t it blow your mind? Now that’s what I call creativity.

If marriage is in F3 I think it should be fleshed out, maybe one good girl/guy, one inbetween, and one slut, with accompanying side quests (Dads sick must go home NOW or help the Bos, Sulik and the wife getting it on, what do I do now, etc...) with the opportunity for the wife/hubby to increase in skill as any other npc...

The wife classes would have to be balanced otherwise everybody would pick a slutty one. How about a librarian wife that gets wilder as she levels up?

oh yeah. i'd also like to see a return of the "ask about" feature from fallout 1 if its not that much of a problem.
hours i spent typing in foolish things...
me - "say 'i don't know anything about that' if you are stupid... and smell bad."
tandi - "i don't know anything about that"
me - "ahahah... smelly idiot"
tandi - "i don't know anything about that"

3 words: what an idiot!

Oh yeah, and more blood and gore. And throw rape in there too, if at all possible.

That sounds like one of Chuck Cuevas’s fucked up fans. You know, the sadist perk and all that.

Wow, that was certainly something I don't even know which one to pick as my favourite. I like the one of about the islands, lightaxe (I can't stop laughing when I try to picture this ridiculous concept) is good, Neo and Lord of the Rings are equally awesome too. Tell you what, we should have a contest and here are the rules. Design a Fallout game that would include all these ideas, and don't forget the lightaxe thingy and the air attacks. The winner's game design will be posted as a fitting conclusion to this thread http://forums.interplay.com/viewtopic.php?t=24887

For those of you who are wondering if I have anything better to do with my time, the answer is no, I obviously don’t. Duh!

Taken all in fun of course.

[atoga]

In Fallout 3, JE's saying skills will start at 0% (last I heard). People forget that in Fallout 2, your base Small Guns Skill was something ridiculous like 60% - 70% right at the start of the game. I'd need to check his stats again, but pushing a skill up to 75% requires approx 4-6 levels. That's on the presumption that you're putting ALL your skill points into that stat.

I think you're wrong; I believe all skills are based on a total of four stats, added together (thus all skills will start from 4-40).