The end has arrived

[Megatron]

*Just remember that they're going to work on another game after FOBOS. Wouldn't you rather be able to talk to them instead of having them ignore you based on your** username?

I'm not really bothered what chucky works on as a developer, he seems a bit of a silly man. It's not like I go around telling developers to fuck themselves all the time because I like good ideas and like to see originality get recognition and be repeated or something?

It probably is time to move on, but it's something to do in my spare time like posting here or reading. It's not very positive or meaninful, but neither is masturbation. kthnxbye

[Briareus]

(and I'm actually willing to believe that was made up additionally to cover up the leak ;))

Seriously, dude, you've got to pull the tinfoil hat all the way down over your ears. THAT'S HOW THEY GET CONTROL OF YOU!! :lol:

[S4ur0n27]

You can't deny Interplay (which knew there were a lot of FO fans out there that have been waiting for years for FO3) gave the Fallout RPG license to some devs in the clear intention of making an action game. Just this alone is bad. Even more, these devs making the FO action game fuck up all the FO world. Even worse, the graphic of this action title are ugly. Even more, the game uses all sort of racists/sexists stereotypes.

Now did they think they'd get any positive criticism?

[Briareus]

You can't deny Interplay (which knew there were a lot of FO fans out there that have been waiting for years for FO3)

We did? Sorry, but all I knew was that there were 2 or 3 fan sites out there still plugging away to the same people it always had. And what the execs knew was never made apparent to me. It's not like the people that ran NMA and DAC and Vault13 posted usage data for their sites. And we couldn't really go by sales figures. Those are only strong indicaters when you have a strong sell through just after launch. 500k units over 5 or 6 years is shit. Most of those units were sold after the first year and after the game had gone to the bargain bin. As such, people tend to complain less about a game they paid $10 for vs. a game they payed $50 for. If someone didn't like a $10 purchase, they may not even be bothered to post about it let alone return it.

What we DID know was that the fans that were on the fan sites were a very passionate bunch. But that's not necessarily going to equal high sales, is it?

[Zetura Dracos]

Edit: Needless multipost removed. You get the s3x g0d title at 69 posts because Killzig is sassy. -Spazmo

Thank you for that explanation, I will also strive not to make multiple posts, it was kind of a stream of conciousness thing.

[S4ur0n27]

Still, I'm sure a company like Interplay has some people probing the markets, and if not they certainly have a problem. And if those people thought they'd get more sales with a game like FOBOS, they sure are in deep trouble.

FO was an RPG, it's fan were RPGers for the most part, as we can see on the multiple FO forums, how could Interplay think a FO action game was a good idea. FO was, I think, an hardcore RPG, with deep RP elements, SERIOUS mature themed, so it brought either hate or love, not much in between. Thus, FO fans, in general, are RPGers and mature people. What let Interplay think they'd buy an action game filled with thongs and DD cup chicks? And then, people who didn't like FO won't buy FOBOS either because, seeing the FO name, they will imediattely tag it to the originals, which they hated.

Then there are the new people, the teenagers, mostly attired by action games we say. That's the people Interplay will have the most chance of selling FOBOS to. Economicaly, the game could have been a success to them, but seeing how its ending up as (bad/ordinary graphics, easy auto-targetting, not challenging, the kind of game in which the bodies disappear from the ground after 20 seconds, a cheap game, without online multiplayer), people will prefer other games.

And then there is the fact that the devs were inconstant in what they said, sometimes they say the original FO fans will like it, then they say it was never designed for them, etc.

[Sol Invictus]

No, not at all, cuz all I've been hearing about FOBOS is that it blows mainly because it rapes the Fallout canon, but not for anything tangible. When people say a game looks great, I tend to agree if indeed it does look great and sound like it could be fun to play. 'Truth be told', I didn't hear anything necessarily un-fun about FOBOS, other than its an action game and most people here don't play action games.

I would have to call the rape of a legacy to be a very tangible issue here. It is the main reason why most of us are even riled about F:POS. While this doesn't really say much about the action in the game it just shows how willing Interplay is to hire people who would compromise a legacy, as well as a strong fanbase in order to earn a quick buck from unsuspecting PS2 owners.

Seeing and playing Chuck's other game, Run Like Hell, which was in development for over 3 years is tangible evidence of poor quality on his behalf and there's nothing to point to us why F:POS will not end up suffering the same way his other project did.

I enjoy a good action game every now and then, and Max Payne 2 really took the cake on that peeve of mine quite recently. I just don't see a game from a dwindling company like Interplay, produced by a man who's only proven himself to be an unintelligent, uncreative, uninnovative untermensch to be anything but lacklustre, if not flat out awful as much as its very namesake F:POS, and corny advertising "it's better than sex!".

I've said nothing along those lines bro ( nor inferred ) so thats all in your head, really. Show me the last place I said "my game rocks way more than this POS, so I don't know why you guys should bother looking at anything else BUT Projekt FeeniX!" I may have said my game looks awesome, but thats my opinion as a gamer, and I'm very happy with the results thus far. Oh well.

Chuck says the same thing about his own game and most of us tend to disagree with his unfair assessment of his product. While not a direct attack on you, I must say that the assessment of anyone who boasts his own product can't be taken as any way but biased. Dark Underlord has a point when he says that pre-release criticism should be applied both ways. In other words, if you're defending F:POS from attack inspite of the evidence, you should very well defend your own game from praise, despite the evidence we're lacking of it.

[Raymondo]

3rd Commandment of Game Development is:

Thou shalt not brag about unfinished games

[EvoG]

I would have to call the rape of a legacy to be a very tangible issue here. It is the main reason why most of us are even riled about F:POS. While this doesn't really say much about the action in the game it just shows how willing Interplay is to hire people who would compromise a legacy, as well as a strong fanbase in order to earn a quick buck from unsuspecting PS2 owners.

Seeing and playing Chuck's other game, Run Like Hell, which was in development for over 3 years is tangible evidence of poor quality on his behalf and there's nothing to point to us why F:POS will not end up suffering the same way his other project did.

I enjoy a good action game every now and then, and Max Payne 2 really took the cake on that peeve of mine quite recently. I just don't see a game from a dwindling company like Interplay, produced by a man who's only proven himself to be an unintelligent, uncreative, uninnovative untermensch to be anything but lacklustre, if not flat out awful as much as its very namesake F:POS, and corny advertising "it's better than sex!".

No I know, and I agree. In fact, I have nothing vested in defending FOBOS. I hear ya about RLH, so if the team is any indication to quality, then yes, it has a good chance of it being bland...but I usually reserve my final judgments til I play it is all(assuming I do). [more comment on this below]

Chuck says the same thing about his own game and most of us tend to disagree with his unfair assessment of his product. While not a direct attack on you, I must say that the assessment of anyone who boasts his own product can't be taken as any way but biased. Dark Underlord has a point when he says that pre-release criticism should be applied both ways. In other words, if you're defending F:POS from attack inspite of the evidence, you should very well defend your own game from praise, despite the evidence we're lacking of it.

All I said is that I think my game is pretty. Aren't I allowed to sit here and compare my work to other games out there? Arguably, I can say all I want til I'm blue in the face that my game looks great, but if you guys don't think so, then 'meh', what can I do but try to make it look better. On the other hand, I've been doing 3D art for a long time, and qualtiy and taste being subjective of course, all of my bosses/clients, whomever, have been more than satisfied with my quality. I'm still a valid judge of good art over bad art, regardless if its my art or someone elses. So I dunno, other than innocently pointing out that I think I'm doing a good job on art, I never said any of the other things I was accused of saying. I only HOPE that you guys like what I create...thats all. I never praised Phoenix beyond the artwork, and even then it was clearly quite mild and reasonable.

I also wasn't defending Chuck or FOBOS as I was playing devils advocate and wanted to see if people were motivated to speak against the game SOLEY for the fact that it rapes fallout. If FOBOS was NOT a Fallout license, but some misc. action game and was fun, wouldn't that be a significant point? Seems the opinion of it being a fun game was skewed merely for the anger of the fanbase who have deeper issues about the history of Fallout than merely this single game. Either way I don't really care two ways about it.

Cheers

[Briareus]

3rd Commandment of Game Development is:

Thou shalt not brag about unfinished games

Dude, my game is SO gonna kick your game's ass! ;)

[atoga]

3rd Commandment of Game Development is:

Thou shalt not brag about unfinished games

Dude, my game is SO gonna kick your game's ass!

Dunno, Ray Mondo is a fuckin' game developer madman...

[Raymondo]

3rd Commandment of Game Development is:

Thou shalt not brag about unfinished games

Dude, my game is SO gonna kick your game's ass!

Dunno, Ray Mondo is a fuckin' game developer madman...

Hey my next game is looking pretty damn sweet compared to the last piece of shit I made I’m still behind on the graphics and still using TGF/MMF but it’s a big improve.

[EvoG]

Dude, my game is SO gonna kick your game's ass!

Pfft....I never even HEARD of whatever it is you're making...Phoenix simply pWnZ0rs you so hard you don't even it realise it yet. Step back bro cuz my ego needs room to squash you!

Hehe.

Cheers

[Saint_Proverbius]

Much like how the new Battlestar Galactica has totally changed the cannon from TOS. The fans were outraged.

What's up with Starbuck being a chick, anyway?

Okay. But being outraged isn't going ot change the new show is it?

If it changes nothing, then why bother telling us to stop? Eh? This is a double edged argument. Basically, you're asking Why? to a question that can also be answered Why not?

I think it's time to move on, really. You don't like FOBOS. You don't like the changes, or the art or the engine or the gameplay. Fine. Got it. The game wasn't designed for you.

Yes, we've heard that. It's been stated a few times by TEAM CHUCK that Fallout Enforcer was designed to get people who hadn't played the Fallout games interested in Fallout.

If you can repeat that, why can't we repeat, Man, this game is a really stupid idea! or other criticisms we've made?

Telling Chuck or anyone else to fuck off or saying that Interplay should die isn't going to do anything constructive*, and certainly isn't going to bring a PC Fallout 3 out any time sooner.

Fuck off and Interplay should die!

It took me about a second to type that, and now Fallout 3 is one second closer. Woohoo! I win!

But like I said, you're free to do whatever you like. Just don't be suprised when they start ignoring all the bitching and moaning.

I thought they already did ignore that after the whole Fallout Fantasy thing.

*Just remember that they're going to work on another game after FOBOS. Wouldn't you rather be able to talk to them instead of having them ignore you based on your** username?

So, Fallout Enforcer 2's been in pre-production for a little while. How's that going?

Step back bro cuz my ego needs room to squash you!

Steve is about to make you his BITCH!

Of course, Romero had screenshots and a website first.

[EvoG]

Steve is about to make you his BITCH!

Of course, Romero had screenshots and a website first.

Hehe...that he did. Damn him!

Cheers

[SuperH]

OMG LOOK I FOUND JUST RELEASED VIDEO OF THE MOMENT OF FOPOS'S CONCEPTION!!!!11one!/ :

http://www.fanta.dk/showmovie.asp?mid=4 ... 256567D3C3

[DarkUnderlord]

Oops! You got me! How predictable you would chose this one since I just said it like a week ago.

You might want to remember the bit where you asked for the last instance where you inferred that your game was better than another game. Seeing as it was the last time you said it, yeah, I'm gonna use that one.

Where was I boasting or inferring anything homes!!??

Damn boy, you need to find a dictionary and look up the meaning of infer.

I made an observation that AI historically has FAILED to deliver time and time again.

... and then gave an example of how the AI in Phoenix is and how it is better than Stalker because it responds to stimuli, rather than just 'randomness'.

EvoG: As for you AI comment...um, okay. I wouldn't be going on about chaos and randomness as much as I would about consistent AI behaviour and repsonse to stimuli... believeable human behaviour.
Randomness? Poo-poo their AI! Nothing wow there. An AI that responds to stimuli would be better.

EVoG: For the AI in phoenix, I'm basing my goals for the NPC's on needs and wants, and then going through a tree of decisions, using internalilzation and sight and sound stimuli.
In Phoenix, the AI responds to stimuli...

Do you get that yet?

Actually, you even repeatedly said that Half-Life's AI was fantastic and therefore, we have reason to believe that the AI in HL2 will be even better because of their track record. You then critiscised randomness, another company's lack of track record and spouted off about your own AI, conveniently ignoring your own track record (and lack thereof). Better yet, you ignored the fact that for an FPS, where the bad guys are is everything. I can play Half-Life again and regardless of the AI, I still know where the bad guys are and I can still walk around the corner and shoot them (yay). An FPS game where you don't know where your enemies are even though this is your third time through, makes for more replayability in an FPS.

All I did was go on to explain some rather RUDIMENTARY AI concepts and actually focus on the concept of AI behaviour the player can read, and compared the concept to Half Life and Thief(just to help illustrate the example since most people played those games).

No, once again you bagged Stalker's AI, saying that they had no track record and AI that has randomness in an FPS is nothing wow. You went on to say how great AI should use stimuli and that, LO AND BEHOLD PHOENIX AI USES STIMULI!!

Nah, you're not inferring anything there, are you? Nope, nothing at all.

Never said I was BETTER than Half Life or Thief!

Didn't say you did.

Sure of course we're an art house right now. Of course we have to prove ourselves as game developers. So what?

Odd that, isn't it though? How come you bag another new dev house who are actually going to PUBLISH their game (not just try and flog a demo) yet don't realise the same thing about yourself? Once again, you said they've got 'uninteresting AI' then go ahead and say what a more interesting AI would be. AI that you're using in Phoenix of course!

This isn't a big seKrat. I told ALL of you guys from the begining, and time and time again that I'm a NEW developer with a wonderful opportunity to make a game I hope people really enjoy.

So?!!

So stop making hypocritical complaints about OTHER developer's, then turning around and giving AN EXAMPLE of how your game is. Therefore inferring that your game is better in some ways than theirs. The key here is not you saying how great your game is, it's how much you bag everyone else for saying how great their game is. You can't have it both ways.

Where did I say my AI was better than Stalkers!?

You inferred it. Jesus man, look up the meaning of infer. To say in one moment that an AI that merely adds randomness makes it nothing special, than to say that we should be more excited about AI that responds to stimuli, then to say that in Phoenix, this is what your AI does is inferring quite a bit. WE SHOULD ALL BE EXCITED ABOUT PROJEKT FENNIX!!11!!1

Where did I say they suck!?

EvoG: Stalker, I fear, is going to suffer from lack of focus and that intangible 'something' that a lot of first person shooter developers seem to have regarding their combat feel.

If I were to say that Jesus: Brtoherhood of Christ is going to be a game that suffers from a lack of focus and is missing that special something, am I inferring that the game is good, or that the game is bad? If you were reading that and are thinking about buying that game, would you think "He reckons I should buy it" or "He reckons I shouldn't buy it"? What do you think I'd be inferring by saying that?

Where did I EVER say I was the greatest game developer ever!?

Never said you did. I said you're inferring that you're good. Comparing your AI with another game, talking about how the combat needs to be better than such and such etc... To paraphrase yourself: Why should we believe what you say, when anyone who's ever said they'd make something innovative has failed to deliver?

How can you say something is ludicrous when I JUST SAID IT WAS 'LUDICROUS'?? Didn't I just SAY that!? *slaps forehead* Brilliant!

The fact of the matter is EvoG, to quote yourself:

What makes you believe these guys when they say the exact same thing as the others, and the others failed to deliver anything innovative on any level?

There you go, talking out of your arse again! Pretty ludicrous, huh?

Yes, because employees of a public company often talk about work product leaks on the interweb. Happens all the time.

Fair enough, but it still doesn't hide the fact that we know Fallout 3 is indevelopment, yet the first time we get confirmation about a Fallout Action Console game is in the news release. Gee, that's a great example of talking to the fans.

And considering that Fallout Fantasy was the code name for LIONHEART I guess that means you guys were WRONG.

About what, exactly? A code-name that got mixed up? HAR HAR HAR.

Check the facts Briareus. The facts that Interplay denied. DjSlamak already gave you the link.

FACT: Jefferson's cancellation only moved Van Buren's schedule up.

Depends on whether any real work had been done it or not though. Fallout 3 has apparently been scheduled to be the next game for quite some time and (from what I know) has started and stopped about 3 times now. It's just funny that it takes an Interplay Classic Decisionâ„¢ to finally get the ball rolling for real.

Given your history at fucking up, tell me why we should trust you at all?

If you don't trust us, why are you listening to anything we say or following the progress of a game you're not going to buy?

... because I don't trust you.

[Syreen]

If it bombs, I give it a 60% chance they can Fallout 3.
That's being conservative.

One note:
posting phone numbers just (surprise) sends devs into bunker mode

(Yes, I'm involved in the industry. But not on the developers side of things. No, I do not work for any major develop. Yes, I like Fallout 1 and 2, Tactics won't run on my machine)

[Killzig]

was company phone # and they've been in bunker mode for ages now. Doesn't really make an ounce of difference. Relations have been far gone down the crap for quite a wihle now. Before I was even a tingle in my daddy's sac.

[Saint_Proverbius]

The last time I remember relations being good was right before Black Isle Studios released Fallout 2, before it was known how rushed and buggy that game was.