FO3 Bad Guys

[Genghis Khan]

Sorry to ignore you but I’ve got to respond to shadowvalor

They're throwing sticks and rocks, while there are many fewer people with miniguns, organized militarys(think the NCR not too long after Fo2), and tons of basic weapons. Play though Fallout, and just look at the stockpiles of stuff you get. 12 miniguns, 13 rocket launchers, 2 gatling lasers- Just from the military base. It's an insane amount of equipment that 'civilized' people have. Put a few people in Power Armor, give them Gatling miniguns, and numbers go down.

Your thinking way to small I’m thinking in the tens of thousands and your thinking in the tens lets just say for the argument that there 4000 Horde warriors with various bits of power armour and various weapons with no real training to 1000 properly armed and equipped NCR soldiers. Starting to get the idea?

It's not good for a main villian, because of the fact it's just not practical. It's black and white, and isn't very multisided. The Master and Enclave both had noble goals, although the Enclave was a bit more twisted in their was of achiving such goals. The Master hid himself behind religon.

I realise that, and as i said before the leader needs a secondary objective.
Ok what if the new leader was a Vault Empire spy (i just made them up) that is trying to play The Horde and NCR off on each other (force them to fight) so that when all the dust had settled they could invade with out risk of failure

These tribals just want to wipe everything out. Not to mention their social structure couldn't support anything very large. Cheiftans are nomadic and small by definiton, and so unless they developed states, nonslash-and-burn agriculture techniques(leading to agricultural surplus, and that leads to specilization, and so on, and so on...) they'll remain small, and relitively weak when compared to most towns, cities, and brotherhood outposts.

Ok then lets expand on the idea of clans starting from biggest to smallest
1) Warrior Clan the biggest and most powerful clan in The Horde most people have no other choice since there's no form of education available so they have to fight to survive.
2) Techies If your to week to Join the Warrior clan and survive past childhood (a difficult thing to do) you usually join the Techies. They make hammers knives etc and can do basic repairs to guns.
3) shaman Doctors etc. If you do any thing that is considered a miracle like bringing some one back from the dead you are made into a shaman the only medical treatments available are bleeding and trephine (drilling holes in the head)
3) farmers Not exactly a clan in the strictest sense its mostly made up of slaves working on farms since people in the Horde know nothing about such things. the only free members are really the slavers that control them.

Let me expand a bit on the slaves. Slaves are taken from ether other tribes or in the raids on the "civilised" south Its very rare for a slave to be taken but when one is it’s sent strait into farming.

[Flamescreen]

Your thinking way to small I’m thinking in the tens of thousands and your thinking in the tens lets just say for the argument that there 4000 Horde warriors with various bits of power armour and various weapons with no real training to 1000 properly armed and equipped NCR soldiers. Starting to get the idea?

You're just assuming they could find bits and pieces of PA for 4000(or more as in ten thousands,don't think that many were even manufactured), also if they had that equipment before what would stop them from serving their main agenda before NCR or anyone else got powerfull? Besides 1000 NCR with gatling miniguns> 15000 Horde with bits of power armor

I realise that, and as i said before the leader needs a secondary objective.

You did?
I thought you said there wasn't a real need for a second objective other than reclaiming the Promised Land(which I think is more or less their primary objective).

These tribals just want to wipe everything out. Not to mention their social structure couldn't support anything very large. Cheiftans are nomadic and small by definiton, and so unless they developed states, nonslash-and-burn agriculture techniques(leading to agricultural surplus, and that leads to specilization, and so on, and so on...) they'll remain small, and relitively weak when compared to most towns, cities, and brotherhood outposts.

I'll give that much to ghengis, his same name obvious propator, was infact nomadic. You can have a charismatic leader uniting Nomads for a cause, there are brahmin for food, still they need equipment though, no Ghengis times anymore.

[Genghis Khan]

You're just assuming they could find bits and pieces of PA for 4000(or more as in ten thousands,don't think that many were even manufactured),

I’m assuming that PA was issued to all the soldier in the war. (On the American side at least) not that they would just fined 10 thousand PA somewhere in Canada!

also if they had that equipment before what would stop them from serving their main agenda before NCR or anyone else got powerfull? Besides 1000 NCR with gatling miniguns> 15000 Horde with bits of power armour

Do i have to keep repeating my self? [Deep breath] before this leader guy basically came strolling along claiming to be the messiah etc. etc. They where just a bunch of tribes constantly bickering over resources and territory linked only by culture and the desire to kill he united them and turned them into a formidable fighting force, capable of destroying civilisation itself!

You did?
I thought you said there wasn't a real need for a second objective other than reclaiming the Promised Land (which I think is more or less their primary objective).

No, that’s my basic absence of any form of rational thinking at 12,O clock at night :morning:

I'll give that much to ghengis, his same name obvious propator, was infact nomadic. You can have a charismatic leader uniting Nomads for a cause, there are brahmin for food, still they need equipment though,

What kined of technolegy does it take to kill a brahmin exactly?

no Genghis times anymore.

what's that supposed to mean?

[Flamescreen]

Do i have to keep repeating my self? [Deep breath] before this leader guy basically came strolling along claiming to be the messiah etc. etc. They where just a bunch of tribes constantly bickering over resources and territory linked only by culture and the desire to kill he united them and turned them into a formidable fighting force, capable of destroying civilisation itself!

I still can't make a reason for them defeating others( with highly evolved weapons:gatling-laser etc.) equiped with Bits(emphasis on bits-bits cannot be more than 40% percent of the armor and that in the best case, so it doesn't protect that much), also the American side of the army didn't have that many PA(problems with powering according to the bible which more or less has the facts IPLAY-BIS use, also imagine having something like say 1-10 mil. PA, you would find them in loads every other corner, as I can only logically assume that they didn't ordered all of the troops to go to Canada and Alaska. Just too much PA and we haven't seen such a display of PA abundancy so far)

What kined of technolegy does it take to kill a brahmin exactly?

A knife or a cleaver would do! Basically you just destorted what I said though. I said :...brahmin for food---------(mental pause)---------still you need equipment though[to start a campaign, as in not simple rocks and bows],no Genghis [khan] times anymore(where you might win using spears and bows as weapons which wouldn't be very formidable now, not with Gatling guns present). I thought I didn't have to break it in two sentences to make it understandable, sorry if I've been misleading, but there is a comma ","

what's that supposed to mean?

Explained above

[Saint_Proverbius]

also the American side of the army didn't have that many PA(problems with powering according to the bible which more or less has the facts IPLAY-BIS use, also imagine having something like say 1-10 mil. PA, you would find them in loads every other corner, as I can only logically assume that they didn't ordered all of the troops to go to Canada and Alaska. Just too much PA and we haven't seen such a display of PA abundancy so far)

The Fallout Bible also implies there were more than one type/generation of PA used by the U.S., and in Fallout, it says that the T-51b was the only type used in the holodiscs at West Tek.

The reason for this is that Chris Taylor(FO Lead Designer) says that fusion was developed earlier in Fallout's time line. Chris Avellone says that fusion was developed really late, just before the Great War.

I've always thought Chris Taylor's "early fusion" made more sense with what's seen in Fallout.

[Flamescreen]

Thanks Saint_Proverbius, I wanted to add that info also, but I have to admit I couldn't remember it clearly. Last time I checked with the Bible should be 2 months back...

[Genghis Khan]

I've always thought Chris Taylor's "early fusion" made more sense with what's seen in Fallout.

Agreed, I mean why would civilian mass produced car have such recently developed tech on it?

I still can't make a reason for them defeating others( with highly evolved weapons:gatling-laser etc.) equiped with Bits(emphasis on bits-bits cannot be more than 40% percent of the armor and that in the best case, so it doesn't protect that much), also the American side of the army didn't have that many PA(problems with powering according to the bible which more or less has the facts IPLAY-BIS use, also imagine having something like say 1-10 mil. PA, you would find them in loads every other corner, as I can only logically assume that they didn't ordered all of the troops to go to Canada and Alaska. Just too much PA and we haven't seen such a display of PA abundancy so far)

1) I didn't say what it would be wearing for the other 60% did I? They could be wearing normal metal armour with a PA arm.
2) I don't think they would all already have PA most would be captured in the raids against the civilised areas.

no Genghis [khan] times anymore(where you might win using spears and bows as weapons which wouldn't be very formidable now, not with Gatling guns present). I thought I didn't have to break it in two sentences to make it understandable, sorry if I've been misleading, but there is a comma ","

I've done some research and the Chinese (the people they tried to take over but didn't quite succeed) where armed with flint lock pistols cannons and stuff, much better weapons and training but Genghis Khan's Mongol Army over ran most of china before changing his mined and invading Russia instead.

I didn't say that they had no equipment just that they had a limited supply of it. The only guns available would be those that where captured or they had already (which would be a dwindling number).

I think The Horde fits nice and snugly into the fallout universe. So ill get back to the original question, taking all of this info into account would you say it is a good idea? :

[Shadowvalor]

1) I didn't say what it would be wearing for the other 60% did I? They could be wearing normal metal armour with a PA arm.
2) I don't think they would all already have PA most would be captured in the raids against the civilised areas.

1) Metal armor does not good armor make? Put up against the resources of the civilised world, metal armor won't do much. Also, PA without all the technical gizmos won't work very well. The arm of a suit of Powered Armor would be heavey, cumbersome, and hold no advantages that the full suit of PA would.
2) It seems alot of people in Fallout are pretty Zealous about not letting anybody take their stuff. If a bunch of tibals came running into my village, I'll get on the roof and open up with an SMG.

I've done some research and the Chinese (the people they tried to take over but didn't quite succeed) where armed with flint lock pistols cannons and stuff, much better weapons and training but Genghis Khan's Mongol Army over ran most of china before changing his mined and invading Russia instead.

Hate to tell you, but flintlocks are very poor weapons. Also, we're not talking about flintlocks in Fallout. We're talking about Gatling Lasers, Support Weapons, grenades, rocket launchers.

I didn't say that they had no equipment just that they had a limited supply of it. The only guns available would be those that where captured or they had already (which would be a dwindling number).

Without proper training or knowlage, it may not matter what they have. Without the knowlage being passed down openly someone may inherit a shotgun, and use it as a spear.

I think The Horde fits nice and snugly into the fallout universe. So ill get back to the original question, taking all of this info into account would you say it is a good idea?

I, personally, don't. Like I said, it's too black and white. The threat is too simple. These may have numbers, but numbers crumble under technology.
I would also be kinda disappointed in buying another Fallout game about damn tribals. I was a tribal in Fo2, I was a tribal in FoT, and now I gotta fight the mofos in Fo3?

[Genghis Khan]

1) Metal armor does not good armor make? Put up against the resources of the civilised world, metal armor won't do much.

Who the heck are you? Yoda? this is an example of numbers and tactics over coming technological advantage and anyway I doubt that they would take on the major civilised nations strait away they would probably take on the smaller frontier towns, independent vaults etc.

Also, PA without all the technical gizmos won't work very well. The arm of a suit of Powered Armor would be heavey, cumbersome, and hold no advantages that the full suit of PA would.

It depends on what materials it was made out of and how it actually works. I mean would power armour arm work separated from the rest of it?

2) It seems alot of people in Fallout are pretty Zealous about not letting anybody take their stuff. If a bunch of tibals came running into my village, I'll get on the roof and open up with an SMG.

I don't think you would if there where 300 of them and 12 of you!

Hate to tell you, but flintlocks are very poor weapons. Also, we're not talking about flintlocks in Fallout. We're talking about Gatling Lasers, Support Weapons, grenades, rocket launchers.

Yes i realise that but i was just trying to point out an example of how numbers and excellent tactics beat technology.
Have you ever seen the movie Zulu Dawn? Or Heard of General Custer’s last stand? Both where examples of shear numbers and excellent tactics over coming technology.

Without proper training or knowlage, it may not matter what they have. Without the knowlage being passed down openly someone may inherit a shotgun, and use it as a spear.

Knowledge would probably be passed down from word of mouth or through experimentation (a very dangerous way of learning how to using a gatling laser)

I, personally, don't. Like I said, it's too black and white. The threat is too simple. These may have numbers, but numbers crumble under technology.

Yes your right. But could you please come up with a reason for les black and white rather than just pointing out a mistake and not suggesting how to right it. Couldn’t you be just a little more helpful?

I would also be kinda disappointed in buying another Fallout game about damn tribals. I was a tribal in Fo2, I was a tribal in FoT, and now I gotta fight the mofos in Fo3?

For the last time they are not tribals they are The Horde! :mad:

[Genghis Khan]

Any ideas and suggestions for the Horde?

[Knight]

Any ideas and suggestions for the Horde?

Maybe the Horde could live in large mobile vehicles or just convoys. Like nomads they wander the cold wasteland of Canada in tribes and such. 8)

A few of the tribes had already controled a few military bases and these bases became forts where these certain tribes isolated themselves but eventually traded with the outside world. :roll:

They don't need to be barbaric and run around with axes and knives. Since they were the Army in that region. Their children would have been trained in what thier fathers know. And those children will train what they know and so and so on. So they would know how to keep thier weapons clean and how to build them. Techies like stated above could have a caste similar like weapon specialists or engineers who are in charge of those things and they are the filling of the tribe. :roll:

[FLEA]

okey dokey

he is my idea

WHO ARE THEY: P.N.S.F.N.F.R. (Post Nuclear Spesial Forces of the New Federation of Russia

WHO ARE THEY ? A spessial forces army sent into Americas look for intelegent survivors

WHY ARE THEY EVIL ? Because their orders is to inslave all the clean humans (only human they are prepared to give austarlia to ghouls and africa to supermutants) they are orderd to collect all the humans for experiments, slavery , food for their mutation projects .


ORGANIZATION . Full pleged military goverment 70 persent of their population is in some kind of military forces (because apocliptic world has alot of dangers they decide to join the military to protect their familys and their country

TECHNOLOGICAL STAUTUS . extremly high like never seen before (past power armor and mini guns ) examles

Titanium carbon exoskeleton: Much harder to penetrate then the power armor and with the use of nano technology not as bulky in fact very comfortable desighned espesialy for the user so it doesnt restrict movement powered by micro hydrogen reactor (smaler then a fingernail ) but only last a year or so increses speed and strengh

A 14 heavy repetter Fires 6 inch long dimond spikes anty armor anty anithing ( after the bombs droped it messed the dimond growth in ural mt now they grow with an insame speed and have to removed for the safety of nearby settelments and since there are so many they cost less then paper so millitary decided to make use of phisical properties

also most of them recived implant wich increase their hearing vissin and reflexes

Areas of controll : all of Europe All of Asia and most of Africa


BACKSTORY . no one knew but russia was prepared for the nuclear attack more then anybody there were bomb sheleters radiation treatment senters even a hole undergrownd cities connected to each other all over russia after the bombs droped 97.9% of the population survived so they stared new life underground it was almost the same as before the bombs exept they were underground ( unlike the vaults they were connected so they could travel in between cities ) in 30 years the giverment voted it was time for them to find out what happend to out side earth after the forst recon squad returned and tolld them of all the mutations and radiation levels the started building an army dreaming to clease the land that was theirs before in 10 years they did it they restored old boundries of russia and since radiation started going down they strted to come out and building new cities on top of their undergrownd ones but even though they destroyed mosst of the dangers in their homeland the border patroll reported supper mutants trying to snnek in to their land recodnizing a very powerfull ally the decided to use em to cleanse thir continents sumpliem them with weapons food and medical suplies it prove to be a good decision in 5 years alll of europ and asia was under their control and surepr muttant army was owt in africa wich russia decded to give them after all their help they lived peacefully for years makin giant leaps in technology but few years ago their sensors piced up a nuclear explosion in us (fot bos one) thinkin there are more they decided to send in an army into the americas to clease it out before finding an nuclear bomd heded for them they are not nesseseraly evil they are just extremly loyal to their country and they realy belive that the war between all the factions in ammerica is dangerous for them so they decide to stop the danger

[Knight]

Group: Very Isolated Survivors on a Small Island off the coast of Florida

Before the War: It was an airbase and small city there. It was not nuked however though it was highly militarized. The base was there since the 1960s...Cuban Missile Crisis...the U.S. government built it so they could take out the missile base being built on Cuba. It has a small naval yard and a well up-kept stockpile.

After the War: On the coast of Florida was a large naval base. It got nuked with a large portion of the U.S. navy. The radiation made its way to the isolated island soon enough. The military personel at the base stayed in doors too escape the fallout. The civillians also stayed in doors. They lived a life of solitude for a while. Not risking to go outside for food...if they did they wore homemade radiation suits [designs given by US personel there]. They eventually begin to dig underground and they reunited with other people and so forth. Over less than a century, they had not been in contact with the military base. No trade or contact at all. Meanwhile the people at the town came out eventually and began to rebuild society...base on a cannibalistic way. You see the fallout killed off MOST of the food you can get on the island. So it was either become radiated or eat the dead. They ate the dead, which was not too radiated though. As they ate each other they became more violent and so forth. They began kidnapping tribals off the mainland or other islands to eat them. At the base however, the military came out with thier old war techno still advance however any way the cannibals liked them so they begin a war with the military base.

Location: Off the coast of Florida

[king_ota]

so insted of chuds they are chids (caniblistic, huminoid, indoor, dwellers?)... (btw that a cool idea)

[grapedog]

I think the Raiders are the next step, with technology getting more sophisticated, it's going to be harder to raid shipments between cities as they get larger. Meaning small bands of raiders will need to join and form large bands which will most likely mean Raider cities...

Raiders is the way to go, Mutants are on the out after FO and FO2 Hero's putting a cork in mutant production. Or perhaps more mutant/human hybrids...not as big and strong, but smarter and more controlled, able to adapt and function well within a society that accepts them.

[TheGreatTriscuit]

Heres my little input: mutants = bad

Besides, if i'm not mistake (it's been a while) the Mutants were results of the F.E.V. virus, NOT radiation, and since all/most of F.E.V. research was done in the south west, the farther you get from the original F.O. territory, the less mutants you have.

NOW, some have mentioned muties arriving as remnants of the Master's Army, okay, but assuming this is somewhere a good deal away from the original territory, simple bands of Mutie raiders aren't going to range that far, most of the area immediately east of the Sierra Nevadas is near impossible to travel on foot as it is RIGHT NOW! no raiders (mutie or no) are going to trek accross Death Valley because there MIGHT be raidable settlements on the other side, not with the fledgling NCR (assuming this is between FO1 & FO2) just sittin' there...

But if there were some Marcus-a-likes, mutants who DIDNT want to raid, but who didn't want to put up with the humans, they might be inclined to make the trek.

And that doesn't rule out some OTHER form of mutation. Some have mentioned that perhaps there might be human/mutant hybrids, perhaps not-quite-ghouls, longer lives, weaker bodies, but not necessarily walking bags of pus w/ trees growing from their foreheads (what WAS the explanation behind that, anyway? did he ever say?)

just my $.02

[Megatron]

how about, in the south (or wherever the horde comes from), several thousand people went into vaults, except several insects came in to. The insects layed eggs under their skin, and due to the radiation slowly grew.

When the children started to be born, the insect dna had been absorbed the the woman and the babys had mandibles and shit. The vault-dwellers started to destory these mutants, but they kept coming and escaping, when finally they killed the last few vault dwellers and all that was left were thousands of insect-children.

When the vaults were open, the horde started spreading across the land, slowly taking over towns and vaults, taking resources to their queen.

Very slowly, their human genes kicked in, and technology started being used. The horde started using primitive weapons and armour until one day a small hordling fell into a vat of F.E.V. It grew huge claws and devolped a bigger brain. This insect started to command the horde to take over towns, making better use of technology and cross-breeding the horde with normal humans.

So now, you have different classes of enemys (children of the horde and humans, the horde (soldier, warrior), the queen and the leader mutant insect) and their objective is crush the humans under their foot, for millions of years of being crushed and uh...stuff.
plus it's a territoral thing...like ant-hills slowly grow, and the ants kill all the insects in the area and take away all the leaves and stuff they can use.

[Strap]

uh... i skipped to the end so here goes!

group? a bunch of kids!... with dogs!

and they would be... mean. and Swarming in numbers!

so... i think that that could be improved to meet fallout-y-ness standards, eh? eh?

[Grand Lord Penguin]

Pyro, ever see the movie Them?

50's giant radioactive monster flick featuring giant radioacive ants. Good movie. They, of course, kill the ats with flamethrowers. Because flamethrowers kill everything.

Anyway Pyro, contrary to what I was expectng from you (I've seen the Wastelands), it would fit with the 50's vibe (Them was made in the mid-50's). Like the fly, only more militant.

[SheepsHeard]

Group: Satans Minons

From:Hell

Why there evil: There from Hell.

Technolgy: Claws teeth fire and Evil Magic

Aims: Here to kill all humans plants and animals and to conquer heaven

Story: These demons where put on the earth by a wandering hero. He was travelling through the wastland and came upon a Pedestal which had a button on top. There was also inscritions the hero could not read. So the hero pushed the button and opened a portal to Hell and demons started to pour thorgh the portal. The hero pulled out his trusty Pancor and Slew many of the minons from hell but the onslought finally slayed the hero and more demons poured through the gate and sperad all over the wasteland causing havoc and destuction.

There is my idea :!: