Silver Style Gets Another Ex-Black Isle Employee

[Slaughter]

Edit: I keep getting this "No post mode selected" message, and the post isn't posted. But when I go into the thread, and post once more, suddenly both appear. Did I miss something? Anyway, sorry for the double posting.

[Franz Schubert]

I know this is going to sound crazy, but just ignore it when it says "No post mode selected"

[Hertston]

So if THATS the case, then why would SSE see value in these guys as designers but no one else does? FALLOUT 3.

Exactly ! And your point is ? It's obvious that guys who had worked on Fallout 3 at BSI would be of particular interest to a company developing a post-apoc RPG and hoping to develop a Fallout 3. Nobody is claiming that Jeff is some sort of genius (unlike yourself, obviously) who took the SSE millions despite lucrative offers from EA, M$ or Ubi. What you can't justify is your claim that this is some sort of publicity stunt rather than using Jeff's talents (even though they may be far less than your own :confused2: ), knowledge and experience to make the game better.

If they truly were getting other job offers here, they'd more than likely snatch them up since thats more secure than a long distance relationship for the duration of the final developement leg of some euro-game.

Actually, Carsten has said that he fully appreciates that, and there will be no problem in US based employees leaving if they get US based jobs that are more secure or convenient.

I'm just glad you don't work in my business; we tend to look out for each other, not have a pop at people we have never even met. I'm delighted that you are so talented your "head-hunter" could find you more work within 5 minutes should you lose your job. Your portfolio must be truly impressive... 8 years of smash hits? Please post it so we can all show suitable respect.

Take a look at the poll at the front page. It is obvious that quite a few fans are happy about the possibility of SSE getting the Fallout license.

Yup, Slaughter.... just short of two thirds will be "dancing in the streets" from just under a thousand votes as I type. Good to see that the silent majority is having their say. And full credit to the admins for not fixing it yet

[DarkUnderlord]

Just wait until Silver Style hire the old Janitor from BiS! I can't wait for the announcement.

[Spazmo]

Just wait until Silver Style hire the old Janitor from BiS! I can't wait for the announcement.

I suppose he's going to hire the secretaries and janitors from BIS next?

I think I get your firstborn child now.

[EvoG]

First of all HERTSTON, why the hell are you so defensive about this? Second of all, I'm not slamming those two guys as much as its a 'distaste' for SSE, their gestures towards this community by glomming on to the Fallout name to make an association between a great game and their game, and then waving the "we hired ex-FO3 guys so our game is going to be more Fallout-y than eVar!". That and Carstens back and forth thread last month didn't win fans.

Exactly ! And your point is ? It's obvious that guys who had worked on Fallout 3 at BSI would be of particular interest to a company developing a post-apoc RPG and hoping to develop a Fallout 3.

MY POINT is that they were hired LESS because they were designers and MORE because they were designers on FO3. Are you refusing to see that connection?? Hell you actually more or less said as much and this is alright to you? Token designers?

Nobody is claiming that Jeff is some sort of genius (unlike yourself, obviously)

Obviously.

...Jeff's talents (even though they may be far less than your own )

Obviously.

I'm just glad you don't work in my business; we tend to look out for each other, not have a pop at people we have never even met

Didn't take any pops chief...its a valid question. Why take a gig with far less security than a local job? Sure, it could've been a great offer. I just find it suspect considering everything going on. Never said they sucked and all I know about them is that they are ex-QA guys turned designers on two defunct games. *shrugs*

For the record I'm sure they're both nice guys, I may even say Carstens a nice guy, and I bet you're not a bad person yourself though you say smart-ass shit to try and deride me which is foolish, and you haven't even been here long enough to earn that right let alone respect, so cool your jets hotshot.

And yea, I'd hate being in your industry as well as I'd fucking hate flipping burgers? *ZING*

I'm delighted that you are so talented your "head-hunter" could find you more work within 5 minutes should you lose your job.

Thanks. Yea they are pretty delighted, though ironically enough I've never used them.

Your portfolio must be truly impressive...

Yup it is I guess.

Off topic, may I ask where you work? And on what games you have worked. Just curious

Since you weren't an ass to me like our friend Hertston...

...I just finished up work as lead animator(contract) on UXO for EA. I have my own company and do contract modeling, texturing and animation and I'm currently developing game prototypes internally (see : Project Phoenix )

Anyway, Hertston, play your game, enjoy it, love it, I'm not a bad guy here so I'm gonna stop this 'playtime' shit early and just say that I'm just sick of seeing obvious attempts to draw attention to a potentially weak product. As a GAMER I've seen nothing yet that has made me feel that this game deserves my dollars nor have SSE's past games inspired me to play them. Thats it. I as a GAMER have an opinion as to what I like to play and they have yet to convince me as a customer. They just don't make fun games, so to go and then tell us all about their dealings with Iply and BIS employees and Fallout3 this and FO3 that, is merely an attempt to sway FO fans to The Fall. Its irksome. Get the fucking license or not and then announce it or not. Flaunting these "negotiations" to get FO fans excited is deceptive and now quite trite. Isn't it obvious it pissed off AND turned off a lot of fans here rather than excite them? So its not just me bud.

Cheers

[Hertston]

First of all HERTSTON, why the hell are you so defensive about this?

I'm not particularly. I'm just sick of some of the totally unjustified crap I see on these boards.

MY POINT is that they were hired LESS because they were designers and MORE because they were designers on FO3. Are you refusing to see that connection?? Hell you actually more or less said as much and this is alright to you? Token designers?

Let me phrase this more simply for you, as that seems to be necessary. Those who had experience working on RPGs and in particular Fallout 3 would be particularly useful to a developer working on, um, a post-apoc RPG. Got it so far ? Just like a programmer on the IL-2 Sturmovik team is a lot more likely to get a job working for Mickeysoft on CFS4 than working for Bioware on RPGs. Part of the reason they were employed by SSE was because they did work on FO3, yes. We are 100% agreed on that. But you still have to provide a thread of evidence that the reason for that was some sort of publicity stunt rather than part of making the game a better product. As I said, that assumption is a conspiracy theory, with about as much relation to reality as most conspiracy theories.

smart-ass shit to try and deride me which is foolish

Possibly. But you did rather set yourself up for it... I was just making a point.

you haven't even been here long enough to earn that right let alone respect

I can only respond to what I read. No doubt there are lot of long-term posters here worthy of respect (I could already name a few from what I've seen so far, even if I have disagreed with them), but just the post count doesn't impress me, I'm afraid. If the admins view me as suitably "disrespectful" they can warn me, ban me, or whatever.

And yea, I'd hate being in your industry as well as I'd fucking hate flipping burgers? *ZING*

Just as well, you would never hack it.

ironically enough I've never used them

In which case it rather remains to be seen, doesn't it ? I am a nice guy, though and genuinely hope it doesn't have to be tested.

Yup it is I guess.

and the released games with your name in the credits are ? Sorry, if you posted that I missed it.

an ass to me like our friend Hertston...

Maybe. As you are so quick to have a pop at the credentials of others in your business, it seems only fair to use the same yardstick on yourself. Oh, BTW.. the games with your name on the credits are ?

I'm gonna stop this 'playtime' shit early and just say that I'm just sick of seeing obvious attempts to draw attention to a potentially weak product.

That's certainly enough of this, anyway. I've already made it pretty clear what I'm sick of.


Cheers.[/i]

[Saint_Proverbius]

I'm not particularly. I'm just sick of some of the totally unjustified crap I see on these boards.

Just because you don't agree with the justifications doesn't mean there aren't any. I think the point that Mr. Hugses has never actually worked on a released game as a designer yet is being called a great designer by Carsten Strehse is what is clearly unjustified. Further unjustified matters would be why Damien Foletto with a minor design credit on IWD2 is a great designer as well.

Let me phrase this more simply for you, as that seems to be necessary. Those who had experience working on RPGs and in particular Fallout 3 would be particularly useful to a developer working on, um, a post-apoc RPG. Got it so far ?

This would make sense if the game had been released and there were thinks these two could point to without any dispute as to whether or not they had done it and it worked well. There's also the matter of finding talent to make the game. BIS promoted a freaking web designer to work on Fallout 3 and there was a lot of talk about Interplay/BIS having a hell of a lot of trouble actually hiring on new talent. Most people who knew anything about Interplay knew it wasn't worth their time to apply there or send in a resume because the working environment was one of constant worry about if you were going to get sold off if you were lucky, laid off if you weren't. On top of having trouble getting new talent, they'd been leaking talent for years. Interplay got so worried about this, they blocked any internet access from their office to certain other developers comprised of ex-IPLY staff that had left.

Just like a programmer on the IL-2 Sturmovik team is a lot more likely to get a job working for Mickeysoft on CFS4 than working for Bioware on RPGs.

The anology breaks down when you consider the company that made it and the fact it was actually released.

Part of the reason they were employed by SSE was because they did work on FO3, yes. We are 100% agreed on that. But you still have to provide a thread of evidence that the reason for that was some sort of publicity stunt rather than part of making the game a better product. As I said, that assumption is a conspiracy theory, with about as much relation to reality as most conspiracy theories.

There isn't much in the way of a conspiracy here. It's pretty damned obvious considering. Plain as the nose on your face.

If he were just recruiting up exBISers that were fairly established other than the small fries, then you might have a point about using them to make the game better. If he wasn't intent on adding, who worked on Fallout 3 and making an announcement about each and every one of them, you might have a point. If he didn't tell every single gaming newsie that would listen to him that he was going to get the rights to Fallout 3 at the same time when we all know they're not for sale, you might have a point.

However, considering all that, if it still escapes you that this is something other than a media stunt, then you're blind or foolish.

I can only respond to what I read.

I would recommend comprehending as the middle step before responding.

and the released games with your name in the credits are ? Sorry, if you posted that I missed it.

BTW.. the games with your name on the credits are ?

Which part of lead animator on UXO by EA confused you?

That's certainly enough of this, anyway. I've already made it pretty clear what I'm sick of.

Thinking?

[SDMVersion3]

And yea, I'd hate being in your industry as well as I'd fucking hate flipping burgers? *ZING*

Evo, please, shut up.

[Bobbin]

Yup, Slaughter.... just short of two thirds will be "dancing in the streets" from just under a thousand votes as I type. Good to see that the silent majority is having their say. And full credit to the admins for not fixing it yet

They obviously manipulated it by now. How pathetic can you get?

[Bobbin]

If he were just recruiting up exBISers that were fairly established other than the small fries, then you might have a point about using them to make the game better.

I think none of the established designers are available anymore. They found a job with John Romero, at Troika or Obsidian. And obviously they won't change companies for a developer who is based in Germany. Considering this Puuk was probably the best one they could get (again: of the ones being available).

If he wasn't intent on adding, who worked on Fallout 3 and making an announcement about each and every one of them, you might have a point. If he didn't tell every single gaming newsie that would listen to him that he was going to get the rights to Fallout 3 at the same time when we all know they're not for sale, you might have a point.

I think this is what a lot of people find disturbing. The announcement of everything on their side. But then again this is what SSE always did, even before FO3 came up. It's their way of dealing with the community and I see nothing wrong about it. People are asking them again and again what's up with FO3 and for quite some time Carsten was tight-lipped about it and all he was saying was "I'm serious about this". Just now he admitted that he is in talks with IPLY and that things look bright. I would be happy if Obsidian would talk about stuff like SSE. And where exactly did you hear that the rights for FO3 are not for sale? Just because Tim Cain got rejected doesn't mean IPLY doesn't want to sell them to anyone. You are blaming SSE for talking to their community. It's not like they did an official announcement. He just answered one question in a german (!) interview and made a statement in their forums. Nobody would even know much about it if it wasn't for you and NMA.

[Hertston]

Which part of lead animator on UXO by EA confused you?

Games, plural. You know, finished ones, on the shelves, as in the course of this discussion unfinished ones don't seem to count. I'm really kind of curious about the projects that EvoG may have sweated blood over (I'm sure he's very good.. you wouldn't work for EA if you weren't) that were canned, or didn't sell as well as I'm sure UXO will when it's released.

I am by no means suggesting that EvoG is anything but "top drawer" in his profession. My only point is he and others should at least use the same criteria before passing judgement (I do note his later attempt at a retraction). All he mentioned was one game, not yet released. On those criteria, Jeff has the "better" record ! I'm sure EXO will be very good (I won't be finding out - I'm afraid I loath that Dungeons and Dragons stuff in all shapes and forms, no matter how good the animations are).. but then, IMHO, so will The Fall.

They obviously manipulated it by now. How pathetic can you get?

Note the use of a smiley, this one to be precise. As usual that is to indicate a remark that is tongue in cheek. I only mentioned it all as normally admins tend to be "neutral". Here they are not, on this subject anyway, and that's rather a refreshing change to be honest.

C'mon, it can't be much fun agreeing with each other all the time, can it ? If The Fall is turkey, and I certainly accept that's a possibility (as it is for 95% of games.. there are very few dead certs not called The Sims, Half Life or Doom) I'll be quite "happy" to eat large amounts of humble pie. How many of you folks will if the reverse is true, I wonder ?

[Megatron]

I think he worked on medal of honour? Last I checked that sold pretty well.

Steve likes silent storm, carsten doesn't. I'll let you make your own conclusions

[Hertston]

I think he worked on medal of honour? Last I checked that sold pretty well

If that's the case, I shall withdraw with adequate respect. It did indeed sell like the proverbial hotcakes.

BTW, contrary to what I've seen here, Carsten's comments on S2 sales (which was all he commented on) were accurate. I wouldn't say it "flopped" in the UK (which is all I have to judge by), but it never dented the charts and was discounted to half-price less than a month after release. I guess it can't have done too bad in Eastern Europe as they are already working on a sequel. It's an excellent game, and I hope it does much better in the US.

[Megatron]

Funny, I read it was #1 in the UK charts on release. Bizarro.

[Slaughter]

I guess we will see in time if this was all a publicity stunt or not. The point I wanted to make is that I think some of the regulars here have attacked Carsten rather harshly based on little. And the poll at the front page (before you screwed it up) should help prove that many Fallout fans would welcome Silver Style getting the licence. I agree that Silver Style haven't really proven themselves, but I for one think it's better that they get it than that Interplay keep it.

Good luck with UXO EvoG, looks interesting.

[Megatron]

Of course they would. If any company said they would buy the liscense a majority of fans would dig it. But if they knew all the drama I doubt they'd vote for silver style to get the liscense. A common thought through a majority of fans is that beggars can't be choosers.

[Hertston]

Funny, I read it was #1 in the UK charts on release. Bizarro.

After a little research.. the ELSPA (as near as we have to an "official" chart) for 1/11/2003 (S2 was released on 31/10) was

The Sims: Makin` Magic (same release day as S2)
Max Payne 2
Championship Manager 4 (we Brits love our footie management games)
Medieval Total War (I assume that was the "gold" edition)
The Sims
MoH: Allied Assault Deluxe edition
Conflict Desert Storm 2
BF1942: Secret Weapons of WW2
Rugby 2004
The Sims: Unleashed

No trace in the 8/11 chart later. Call of Duty was released in that week, and topped every chart from then until well past Christmas (the GAME chart had it in the week ending 1/11 at 3 just on their pre-orders.)

Again, I think S2 is a terrific game. But you shouldn't believe all you read, especially around here.

BTW, I did find a chart that rated it "number 1" as the best game, based on various review scores.. perhaps that's what you saw.

BTW (again) folks might be interested to know that the latest re-release of the three Fallout games (which looks like the old "Radioactive" collection in a new box) made it to number 27. That's not too shabby, as I've only seen one store (Virgin) actually stocking it.

[Megatron]

It's not a new release, that box has been out for a while now?

I saw silent storm as #1 on a site I order from. I don't think it did too bad compared to the other huge titles released at the same time mebbe?

[Hertston]

It's not a new release, that box has been out for a while now?

I don't think so, but I may be wrong. First time I'd seen it, and I think it's a re-release of a compilation that was released a few months after FT. For obvious reasons, I won't buy it to find out ! Anyway, it's about if any Brits out there are missing one of the games, Amazon have it too.

I saw silent storm as #1 on a site I order from. I don't think it did too bad compared to the other huge titles released at the same time mebbe?

I think there are a few factors here. I'm not surprised to see it at least charting with an online retailer - I think it did pretty well at Amazon too. It's an interesting example of "internet culture", there was a lot of good things said about it before release, and an excellent demo, which may have translated well into web-based sales. Where it failed was in stores. The reason for that was truly AWFUL box art that just screamed "lousy budget game" (for some reason all "Euro" games seem to suffer that) and minimal publicity. If I hadn't heard about the game beforehand I wouldn't have even taken it off the shelf.

You are right though, it was never likely to compete with mainstream stuff like CM4 and the Sims stuff. Tactical games (and wargames) generally do very poorly here, I'm sad to say.