Druuuuuuugs.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:45 am

You're talking about potheads here. 5 joints a week? Of course that would have an effect on you. But I don't drink alcohol 5 times a week either, and I'm quite sure that would fuck you up even faster than weed. While it's stupid to assume that smoking weed wouldn't affect you, it's equally dumb to think it would be very harmful to the casual user. Yarr I'll steer clear of this topic now since it's pretty obvious that neither side is really willing to change their opinion about this silly subject.

Wolfman Walt wrote:So what other methods are there of taking it?

eating it would probably negate many of the bad consequences (breathing problems, lung cancer and all that)

Thor Kaufman · Post by **Thor Kaufman** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:48 am

lol, stupid thread, all this flaming about nothing
I rather doubt the anti-drugs side in this thread takes their opinion seriously, though, more like they just do it for the sake of flaming, funny shit, ah lovely DAC.

Anyway, if you guys are serious, I pity you

It's your thing, if you say to yourself that you don't like drugs for whatever reason. But if you don't grudge others their fun, it gets really stupid.

Anything can be dangerous, you know, it's up to the responsibility of the individual, what they do to their bodies as long as they don't hurt others.
And if they get wasted by drug abuse, the better for you because you can feel even more 1337 and uber ? lol

Grey Fil · Post by **Grey Fil** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:00 pm

Tell that to the fucking crackhead who broke my car to steal a few bucks worth of goods while making me have to ask for a bank loan to pay for the repairs.

Drug abuse is not just one persons options. It fucks alot of other peoples lives too.

Thor Kaufman · Post by **Thor Kaufman** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:24 pm

Grey Fil wrote:Tell that to the fucking crackhead who broke my car to steal a few bucks worth of goods while making me have to ask for a bank loan to pay for the repairs.

Drug abuse is not just one persons options. It fucks alot of other peoples lives too.

Hm, that leads the discussion into a new direction, drug-related crime, property delicts to be more correct, done by the "crackheads", not the middle class people that can usually afford the money for their shit.

So what could be a possible solution ?

1. Punishment doesn't do much to those poor guys as they are bad off already and it won't keep them from further crimes, since they are addicted and ruled by the drugs.
2. You can't forbid drugs by law, either, since this is already done and like in most prohibition cases, illegal sources will rise, no matter, it will just get expensive.
Unless you shoot all of the drug users that committed a crime, but that would result in an "anti-law-state" or if you arrested all of them, you'd be off with overcrowded jails ? hm, well
3. Maybe some kind of watched drug camps could help and some sort of decriminalization for those people ?

But I really don't know, there is yet to find a solution.
One needs to take the causes for drug abuse into consideration, too, poverty, shitty environment, ghettos and stuff ?

Well, as said in the beginning, that makes it a really complicated matter

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:06 pm

Grey Fil, how about that drunkard who puked in from my friend's car window, damaged the hood with a booze bottle and took his cellphone from the front seat to get a new (full) one? Should we criminalize alcohol because of this kind of ethanol abuse?

We've seen this in the past: forbidding different kinds of substances, be it narcotics, tobacco, alcohol, whatever; usually leads into bigger problems. Look at organized crime - had one of it's peaks during the prohibition and now when drugs are illegal, 'thas gotten even more powerful.

You should always look at the big picture, otherwise you'll end up as a narrow-minded YM from a CA, who thinks banning everything solves anything.

Phias · Post by **Phias** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:46 pm

I think I can agree with you Kashluk. In Paris, there is no legal drinking age, anyone can drink(IF the person who told me this isn't a bloody liar), yet they have less drunks than you would expect.

I think people obtain drugs for the thrill of it. It's against the law, getting caught can lead to a world of trouble. It's a rush for them, I would imagine.

Ozrat · Post by **Ozrat** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:44 pm

http://www.erowid.org/

The Vaults of Erowid:
Documenting the Complex Relationships between Humans and Psychoactives

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/c ... faq1.shtml
Cannabis FAQ

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/c ... .shtml#III
Bunch of medical questions.

3) Doesn't Marijuana cause brain damage?
The short answer: No.
The long answer: The reason why you ask this is because you probably heard or read somewhere that marijuana damages brain cells, or makes you stupid. These claims are untrue.

The first one -- marijuana kills brain cells -- is based on research done during the second Reefer Madness Movement. A study attempted to show that marijuana smoking damaged brain structures in monkeys. However, the study was poorly performed and it was severely criticized by a medical review board. Studies done afterwards failed to show any brain damage, in fact a very recent study on Rhesus monkeys used technology so sensitive that scientists could actually see the effect of learning on brain cells, and it found no damage.

But this was Reefer Madness II, and the prohibitionists were looking around for anything they could find to keep the marijuana legalization movement in check, so this study was widely used in anti-marijuana propaganda. It was recanted later.

(To this day, the radical anti-drug groups, like P.R.I.D.E. and Dr. Gabriel Nahas, still use it -- In fact, America's most popular drug education program, Drug Abuse Resistance Education, claims that marijuana ``can impair memory perception & judgement by destroying brain cells.'' When police and teachers read this and believe it, our job gets really tough, since it takes a long time to explain to children how Ms. Jones and Officer Bob were wrong.)

The truth is, no study has ever demonstrated cellular damage, stupidity, mental impairment, or insanity brought on specifically by marijuana use -- even heavy marijuana use. This is not to say that it cannot be abused, however.

6) I forgot, does marijuana cause short-term memory impairment?
The effect of marijuana on memory is its most dramatic and the easiest to notice. Many inexperienced marijuana users find that they have very strange, sudden and unexpected memory lapses. These usually take the form of completely forgetting what you were talking about when you were right in the middle of saying something important. However, these symptoms only occur while a person is `high'. They do not carry over or become permanent, and examinations of extremely heavy users has not shown any memory or thinking problems. More experienced marijuana users seem to be able to remember about as well as they do when they are not `high.'
Studies which have claimed to show short-term memory impairment have not stood up to scrutiny and have not been duplicated. Newer studies show that marijuana does not impair simple, real-world memory processes. Marijuana does slow reaction time slightly, and this effect has sometimes been misconstrued as a memory problem. To put things in perspective, one group of researchers made a control group hold their breath, like marijuana smokers do. Marijuana itself only produced about twice as many effects on test scores as breath holding. Many people use marijuana to study. Other people cannot, for some reason, use marijuana and do anything that involves deep thought. Nobody knows what makes the difference.

16) I forgot, does marijuana cause short-term memory impairment?
Go away.

17) Isn't smoking marijuana worse for you than smoking cigarettes?
There are many reasons why it is not. You may have heard that ``one joint is equal to ten cigarrettes'' but this is exagerrated and misleading. Marijuana does contain more tar than tobacco -- but low tar cigarettes cause just as much cancer, so what is that supposed to mean? Scientists have shown that smoking any plant is bad for your lungs, because it increases the number of `lesions' in your small airways. This usually does not threaten your life, but there is a chance it will lead to infections. Marijuana users who are worried about this can find less harmful ways of taking marijuana like eating or vaporizing. (Be careful -- marijuana is safe to eat -- but tobacco is not, you might overdose!) Marijuana does not seem to cause cancer the way tobacco does, though.
Here is a list of interesting facts about marijuana smoking and tobacco smoking:

Marijuana smokers generally don't chain smoke, and so they smoke less. (Marijuana is not physically addictive like tobacco.) The more potent marijuana is, the less a smoker will use at a time.

Tobacco contains nicotine, and marijuana doesn't. Nicotine may harden the arteries and may be responsible for much of the heart disease caused by tobacco. New research has found that it may also cause a lot of the cancer in tobacco smokers and people who live or work where tobacco is smoked. This is because it breaks down into a cancer causing chemical called `N Nitrosamine' when it is burned (and maybe even while it is inside the body as well.)

Marijuana contains THC. THC is a bronchial dilator, which means it works like a cough drop and opens up your lungs, which aids clearance of smoke and dirt. Nicotine does just the opposite; it makes your lungs bunch up and makes it harder to cough anything up.

There are benefits from marijuana (besides bronchial dilation) that you don't get from tobacco. Mainly, marijuana makes you relax, which improves your health and well-being.

Scientists do not really know what it is that causes malignant lung cancer in tobacco. Many think it may be a substance known as Lead 210. Of course, there are many other theories as to what does cause cancer, but if this is true, it is easy to see why NO CASE OF LUNG CANCER RESULTING FROM MARIJUANA USE ALONE HAS EVER BEEN DOCUMENTED, because tobacco contains much more of this substance than marijuana.

Marijuana laws make it harder to use marijuana without damaging your body. Water-pipes are illegal in many states. Filtered cigarettes, vaporizers, and inhalers have to be mass produced, which is hard to arrange `underground.' People don't eat marijuana often because you need more to get as high that way, and it isn't cheap or easy to get (which is the reason why some people will stoop to smoking leaves.) This may sound funny to you -- but the more legal marijuana gets, the safer it is.

It is pretty obvious to users that marijuana prohibition laws are not ``for their own good.'' In addition to the above, legal marijuana would be clean and free from adulturants. Some people add other drugs to marijuana before they sell it. Some people spray room freshener on it or soak in in chemicals like formaldehyde! A lot of the marijuana is grown outdoors, where it may be sprayed with pesticides or contaminated with dangerous fungi. If the government really cared about our health, they would form an agency which would make sure only quality marijuana was sold. This would be cheaper than keeping it illegal, and it would keep people from getting hurt and going to the emergency room.

This is an excellent source for up-to-date information on drugs in general, as I've used it as a starting point for my research on various drugs for academic papers before.

Viktor · Post by **Viktor** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:48 pm

Ozrat wrote: Are you kidding me? Honestly, I've lost count as to how many times I've had to drive 20+ miles in my stickshift Escort while blazed out of my mind, as they literally are in the hundreds.

I'd have to be out of my fucking mind on something to even think about getting into a Ford...

Ozrat · Post by **Ozrat** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:52 pm

Viktor wrote:
Ozrat wrote: Are you kidding me? Honestly, I've lost count as to how many times I've had to drive 20+ miles in my stickshift Escort while blazed out of my mind, as they literally are in the hundreds.
I'd have to be out of my fucking mind on something to even think about getting into a Ford...

HA!

Try a '92 Ford Escort with 310,000+ miles on it!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:56 pm

I've never done drugs.

[Sigh.]

I want to try coke, though.

Hey, does caffeine count as a drug? Because if so, I'm the junkie whore down on the corner.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:58 pm

You're a female?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:59 pm

Er...no. At least, I don't think I am.

[Checks.]

Nope. Definitely male. The whore thing was a metaphor.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:01 pm

Yay. Quite misleading. Along with the avatar...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:03 pm

Whatever.

Forty-six & Two · Post by **Forty-six & Two** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:07 pm

Gimp Mask wrote: eating it would probably negate many of the bad consequences (breathing problems, lung cancer and all that)

If youre talking about eating it raw of course?

It doesnt work very well either, slow and very different effect from smoking it.

Neon Dingo · Post by **Neon Dingo** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:32 pm

Sometimes I eat the "roach" (the very last bit of the joint that has the most THC in it) along with any extra that I'm not going to smoke and you'll feel it kick in much later, maybe an hour later. It's not nearly as good, either. Smoking is almost instantaneous. That's what I hate about drinking. It takes forever.

A lot of people complain about the taste, but it doesn't taste like anything to me, really. Have you heard of how to make THC butter? I'd get the exact directions to making it, but I'm at school right now and totse.com is blocked.

Anyway, you take a big pot full of water and a smaller pot filled with butter and you boil the butter until it melts. Then you get a strainer (preferably cloth) and put all of your marijuana on it and pour the melted butter through the strainer into a bowl. THC is fat-soluable, so all the THC will seperate from the plant and mix with the butter. Put the bowl in the fridge and let the butter harden. Then you can just spread the butter on toast and you have THC toast or I guess you can just eat the butter by itself. Pretty cool idea, thinking of trying it.

What do you think is the likelihood of marijuana being legalized in our lifetime? I think if Canada takes the initiative the United States (might) be forced to follow suit.

Really though, with our huge defecit it's kind of pointless to continue this costly war on drugs that really does nothing but destroy people's lives unnecessarily.

Also, your arguement that drug use affects other people is stupid because anything you do affects other people. I've had problems in my life dealing with assholes that like to cut me off in traffic and almost getting me killed, but I've never had with crackheads breaking into my car and stealing shit. Maybe you live in a place with a high crime rate? Most people (like me) sit in their homes and use it peacefully and just relax. You won't see a pothead running around town breaking into cars when they're high.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:40 pm

Stop arguing. Ever hear of moderation? Invariably it's a good thing. Your anti-drug points are all pwned with that in mind.

So ess tee eff ewe

Neon Dingo · Post by **Neon Dingo** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:53 pm

Atoga is right. Doing drugs (anything you enjoy, really) in moderation is a lot better for you.

The only real reason I'm continuing this arguement is because some people seem to think that doing drugs (such as weed) in moderation is still bad for you.

I mean, of course putting foreign substances into your body is bad for you. So is eating candy bars every day. Thing is, when it's every now and then, it just isn't a big enough problem to worry about. Skydiving is risky, but I'll still do it because skydiving fatalities are pretty low and it's an intense experience.

When the fun outweighs the risk, it ceases to be a problem.

I think you guys are focusing too much on the junkies and aren't realizing that most people use drugs in moderation and at least know their limits.

Forty-six & Two · Post by **Forty-six & Two** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:16 pm

Neon Dingo wrote:A lot of people complain about the taste, but it doesn't taste like anything to me, really. Have you heard of how to make THC butter? I'd get the exact directions to making it, but I'm at school right now and totse.com is blocked.

Drinking hot THC chocolate is great! Tastes lovely and you get a really silly buzz from it. Hehe. I recommend it highly, have you not tried it! Serve it at your kid brothers 8 year old birthday, or something. Thatll get the party going

Maximus · Post by **Maximus** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:33 pm

HOLY SHIT! SOMEONE LOCK THIS THREAD!