Legalise institutionalized sodomy?

[Urizen]

Anyone with half a brain knows gay people don't make people gay. The issue now seems to be the "redefinition" of marriage, which people argue will have far-reaching and catastrophic consequences. I have to ask: which consequences are these people talking about? Cuz I sure as hell don't know.

Then there's the question of adoption. Would little Mary like to grow up chained to her bed in a russian orphanage, or would she like to grow up with two gay people? I bet I know the answer.

[Megatron]

Well being gay can be a sort of negative as you can't father a child of your own, you could always adopt but it wouldn't be exact. If you fathered one yourself you can control it a bit easier, but if you adopted one you don't have any say in the genetics of the thing. I think one of the main things to do in life is make a miniature version of yourself you can pass on as your parents did before you. A true set of patriots forming one Big Boss.

I suppose it depends on what you would like to accomplish in life and if you'd feel complete without passing on your genes. And if adopting a child can be the same as having one yourself, if you think people take more from there parents or the environment they live in.

[Thor Kaufman]

Fags are okay in my book.

You can light stuff with them.

[St. Toxic]

No, it isn't. Many churches and priests would marry gays if they could.

God hates fags, and marriage is pretty much getting that fat fucker's permission for having intercourse. Who cares what the individual churches and priests consider right and wrong, talk to the man upstairs.

gay marriage legalised would not mean that they have to accept it in their church

It would allow them to accept it, and as per the quote above, obviously some would. Man, that would totally piss off God.

Organized religion sucks anyway.

I thought all religions were organized, with all the different rules, good vs. bad bullcrap and all that comes with it. Someone's bound to become a saint sooner or later. Then other people tag on, suddenly you got crowds abusing loopholes, defensegrids are put in by some selfproclaimed big guy, and kapow you got hierarchy.

It's already in Canada, so...

So?

Give them a civil union that gives the all the exact same rights and benefits of marriage. But just don't call it marriage.

Sounds very reasonable.

Most people want marriage to be defined as a union between two people who love each other, though. Are they wrong to think so?

They're not wrong, but marriage is alot of things.

A marriage used to be defined as a union between two people of the same race.

Don't think so, buster. Religion has always been where it's at. Maybe the yanks had some anti-slave marriage rules or something, but the universal lock-out is religion.

Hell, who the fuck marries each other purely out of love? it's stupid, you should like live with each other at least a year before you do that.

Agreed. I guess marriage is considered 'progress in the relationship', and certain people ( ones with faulty partners I figure ) need it to feel secure, or 'hold on to the dream' if you prefer. One year of stagnant growth could probably kill anything but a rock-solid match, so instead they go for the 'bonus level', get an extra 6-12 months, and feel good about themselves.

Anyone with half a brain knows gay people don't make people gay.

Sure they do. Seeing as they are normal people with different sexual opinions, homophobes could, after exposure to a homosexual for a longer period of time, become more sympathetic and understanding to their preference of life. Believe it or not, there's alot of people who are closet-gays ( or simply haven't discovered their inner gayness ), and if the world became 100% gay-friendly, these people would jump out and dance the funky chicken.

The issue now seems to be the "redefinition" of marriage, which people argue will have far-reaching and catastrophic consequences. I have to ask: which consequences are these people talking about?

Well, bending rules always ends on a bad note. But honestly? I can't think of any concrete apocalypses going off if gays get to marry, who cares? All I've got against them, is the mental image of a male fucking another male up the ass. Something I get whenever gays are on topic or in sight.

Would little Mary like to grow up chained to her bed in a russian orphanage, or would she like to grow up with two gay people? I bet I know the answer.

The answer is: disallow adoption for everyone. In fact, kick cloning off the face of the earth, and the test tube shit as well. If you can't get a child oldskool style, you shouldn't have a child. And poor little Mary? Let her rot, or better yet, reopen the Gulag and send all parentless children there. That's the heritage you get for having asshole parents that die or abandon you.

[Urizen]

Disclaimer: This is gonna look like shit, but whattahell. I'll try to seperate the things I disagree with from the things that you make (perfectly good) jokes about. It so happens that we've been at the pub, so don't expect grammar, coherence or reason. Also, php codes is a bit hard for me to understand in my inebriated state, so I'll just write plain text. Hope that's okay. I've had a few.

St. Toxic: "Give them a civil union that gives the all the exact same rights and benefits of marriage. But just don't call it marriage.

Sounds very reasonable."

Why? Why should a privilege be granted some, and denied others, even if it's only a formality. Everyone's equal, but some are more equal than others?

St. Toxic: "Most people want marriage to be defined as a union between two people who love each other, though. Are they wrong to think so?

They're not wrong, but marriage is alot of things."

Please explain.

Urizen: "A marriage used to be defined as a union between two people of the same race.

St. Toxic: "Don't think so, buster. Religion has always been where it's at. Maybe the yanks had some anti-slave marriage rules or something, but the universal lock-out is religion."

I tried to make a general point. If you want marriage to stay the same, then what about everything else? Do you eat your meat raw and sleep in a tree? No, because things change to the better. Why not gay marriage?

[St. Toxic]

Disclaimer

Looks well enough, dear Urizen. But, why won't you argue against the other points in my post? I wasn't joking, I'm an asshole.

Why should a privilege be granted some, and denied others?

Because;
A) otherwise it wouldn't be a privelege.
2) I'll write it down there. ( It's the pro-church rant )

Everyone's equal, but some are more equal than others?

No, everyone's not equal, and "more equal" sounds retarded. We have minorities, dear Urizen, and whatever we do to counter that, we'll end up with minorities all the same.

Marriage is alot of things? Please explain.

Well, what kind of thoughts hit your melon when you hear the word "marriage"? New responsibilities, probably, complete commitment, end of freedom, showing someone the depth of your love, economic stability / unstability, raising kids etc. In black and white, per religious definition, and likely what the pope thinks when he hears "marriage", it's;
The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife under the eye of God, with the blessing of God, in the house of God. Totally God.

When I hear marriage, I think 'loads of trauma' or 'Las Vegas', so I don't care, I wouldn't hassle religion for not sharing my gloomy and pessimistic point of view. If they think it's that important, and the good lord is watching with his OH SHIT I HEAR THE ICE CREAM TRUCK!!!!!111!1111oneone-hating non-material eyes, just don't put fags in churches, it's like taking a dump in the holy books they live by. Let the fags marry on boats or something, and invent another pc word for same-sex marriage, compromise is key.

Do you eat your meat raw and sleep in a tree?

I guess you're out of luck, because I'm well conservative enough to wish we all did. If I could go back in time, I'd totally fuck evolution over.

No, because things change to the better

How would you know what's for the better, sir? I don't believe you were around at the time when we were apes, and I don't believe you're a natural observer when it comes to an issue like this one. "Change to the better" is talking out of your ass, so cease and desist, good sir, as neither you or me are gods enough to to tell the difference between good and bad.

No, sir, all change must be looked upon as a threat to security, and even with proof and successful debating it remains a threat, until it is no longer something new, but a standard.

Why not gay marriage?

I must truly counter with: Why gay marriage? I don't really know your sexual preference, so I'm out on a limb, but if you are gay, and wish to marry - please, tell me why.

[Prolix]

Why does the government recognize marriage at all?

Stop issuing marriage licenses now and we won't have to deal with the people marrying horses debate.

[Geno]

Organized religion sucks anyway.

I thought all religions were organized, with all the different rules, good vs. bad bullcrap and all that comes with it. Someone's bound to become a saint sooner or later. Then other people tag on, suddenly you got crowds abusing loopholes, defensegrids are put in by some selfproclaimed big guy, and kapow you got hierarchy.

It's already in Canada, so...

So?

Then religion sucks. I meant religions with hierarchy like most are. A dogma is different from being organized for me. It's just me.

It's alreayd in Canada, so it's good for me. (Not that I'm gay, I just believe it should be legalized)

[Urizen]

Disclaimer

Looks well enough, dear Urizen. But, why won't you argue against the other points in my post? I wasn't joking, I'm an asshole.

I'll do these ones first, and then we can come back to the ones I skipped later, if that's okay with you.

Why should a privilege be granted some, and denied others?

Because;
A) otherwise it wouldn't be a privelege.
2) I'll write it down there. ( It's the pro-church rant )

You're not making any sort of coherent argument here, so I'll just let that one stand for for now.

Everyone's equal, but some are more equal than others?

No, everyone's not equal, and "more equal" sounds retarded. We have minorities, dear Urizen, and whatever we do to counter that, we'll end up with minorities all the same.

So what? That does'nt mean they should'nt enjoy the same rights and priveliges that other people enjoy.

Marriage is alot of things? Please explain.

Well, what kind of thoughts hit your melon when you hear the word "marriage"? New responsibilities, probably, complete commitment, end of freedom, showing someone the depth of your love, economic stability / unstability, raising kids etc. In black and white, per religious definition, and likely what the pope thinks when he hears "marriage", it's;
The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife under the eye of God, with the blessing of God, in the house of God. Totally God.

When I hear marriage, I think 'loads of trauma' or 'Las Vegas', so I don't care, I wouldn't hassle religion for not sharing my gloomy and pessimistic point of view. If they think it's that important, and the good lord is watching with his OH SHIT I HEAR THE ICE CREAM TRUCK!!!!!111!1111oneone-hating non-material eyes, just don't put fags in churches, it's like taking a dump in the holy books they live by. Let the fags marry on boats or something, and invent another pc word for same-sex marriage, compromise is key.

The church isn't the only institution that can marry people. The state itself, the humanists, captains on boats, whatever. Many of these have no objection to marrying gays (and many in the church don't either)

Do you eat your meat raw and sleep in a tree?

I guess you're out of luck, because I'm well conservative enough to wish we all did. If I could go back in time, I'd totally fuck evolution over.

No, because things change to the better

How would you know what's for the better, sir? I don't believe you were around at the time when we were apes, and I don't believe you're a natural observer when it comes to an issue like this one. "Change to the better" is talking out of your ass, so cease and desist, good sir, as neither you or me are gods enough to to tell the difference between good and bad.

No, sir, all change must be looked upon as a threat to security, and even with proof and successful debating it remains a threat, until it is no longer something new, but a standard.

I guess you're trying to make a general point that man's basic state as an animal amongst other animals is the only natural one. That's a perfectly valid point, but it's also pretty irelevant. Evolution and progress (be it good or bad) is a fact. In this context, the word "good" was assumed to mean "promoting equality, decreasing discrimination and giving people of equal worth, equal rights".

Why not gay marriage?

I must truly counter with: Why gay marriage? I don't really know your sexual preference, so I'm out on a limb, but if you are gay, and wish to marry - please, tell me why.

Why would anyone wish to marry? This isn't about wether or not marriage is good or bad, it's about equal rights. As for your other question, I'll just leave you with this url:http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/viewt ... gay+poster

[St. Toxic]

You're not making any sort of coherent argument here

Crap, I thought I was. Here's some more confusion for ya.

1) If you're the king's son, you'll get a country to reign over after the king dies.

2) If you get a Barter perk, you can buy stuff at a cheaper price.

3) Living lawfully keeps you out of jail.

So what? That does'nt mean they should'nt enjoy the same rights and priveliges that other people enjoy.

Yes it does, you know this.

The church isn't the only institution that can marry people. The state itself, the humanists, captains on boats, whatever. Many of these have no objection to marrying gays (and many in the church don't either)

Then if granted, some churches would open up for same-sex marriages. Religion is all disciplined and army-like, y'know, you need to keep em' in line, you don't suddenly open one up for allowing murder ( not in any away insinuating that same-sex marriage is equal to murder, just that rules are rules ) for instance.

It's like giving booze to the 5 middlemost soldiers in a platoon, before sending them out to battle, all 4000 years of army training goes to shit, all the discipline is gone, they're just staggering around with guns, rite. Doing that to every platoon, the whole system probably collapses, and what of the sober units?

"-It's a disgrace!" they might say, before kicking the drunkards' teeth in. Somehow sounds plausible that you'd get a few church-on-church conflicts, enough religious antisemites to go around, surelly.

And so, I still have to agree with "Give them a civil union that gives the all the exact same rights and benefits of marriage. But just don't call it marriage."

The word "good" was assumed to mean "promoting equality, decreasing discrimination and giving people of equal worth, equal rights".

You mean to say, that as primates, we were less equal, more discriminating, and didn't know the value of others?

Stupidity, simply put, is then our greatest invention?

Why would anyone wish to marry? This isn't about wether or not marriage is good or bad, it's about equal rights.

I'm sorry, I thought that maybe the homosexual community had a reason to request marriage, beyond that of including themselves into heterosexual tradition.

It's alreayd in Canada, so it's good for me.

What? How is it good for you, if you're not gay?

[VasikkA]

I think the Pope(or whoever is in charge) should decide who gets to get married. It's their own institution, for fucks sake. Nazis don't recruit negros for the sake of equality either.

imho since teh dawn of time marriage always was about two people who live and support each other

You can do that too without being married. I don't like the legal status a marriage has; it can prove out to be a bad deal when you eventually break up. I myself don't regard marriage as something 'important', but I think everyone should know which stuff is theirs. Mutual ownership sucks.

[Kashluk]

Gay families will be completely normal and seen in every day life in less than three decades.
You can't stop the progress.

Thirty years ago homosexuality was a crime in most countries.

[St. Toxic]

I hope pedophilia is the next one to go, I'm itching to visit the kiddie pools of europe.

[Kashluk]

Yeah, I guess murder will be the next thing after th-- OOPS! I guess it won't!

[St. Toxic]

Is necrophilia still outlawed?

[Kashluk]

I think it's still somewhat considered as a rape - every person has the right to his body even after death, kinda.. although as the body rots it ends up back in the circle of nature. But you get the idea. Having your dead ass molested by someone could be considered raping... unless you volunteered for it and signed some sort of a contract that you could be used as a post-mortem sex toy?

[vx trauma]

Sadly yes.

[St. Toxic]

Some day, trauma, you and me will be allowed to marry corpses, with a blessing from the Lord. Some day...

[VasikkA]

Some day, trauma, you and me will be allowed to marry corpses, with a blessing from the Lord. Some day...

I think that fits in the concept of 'eternal love'.

[Urizen]

St. Toxic: You're not making any kind of sense. If you try to give me coherent, logical reasons for thinking as you do, I'll discuss this. If not... well, I've probably got better things do do anyway.