The Firearms Thread

[airsoft guy]

I personally don't hide the reason for myself owning firearms. Some might use them for sport or for collecting, whatever, but I have them so that I might kill people should the need arise. I have them for doomsday. That's what the Second Amendment is for, it's not for sport shooting, it's not for hunting, it's not for having a musket above your mantle for looks, it's for when the shit hits the fan and The Man can't or wont help you or is quite possibly the one tossing the shit into said fan. Anyone who believes the government can and will always be there to protect you is living in a fantasy world.

Yes, guns are dangerous, VERY dangerous in the hands of people who don't know how to use them, or at least the basics of firearm safety. There's no doubt of that, but they potentially save more lives than are lost every year, at least here in the United States. Depending on who you ask guns prevent anywhere from 75,000 to 2,000,000 million crimes per year. This includes robberies, carjackings, home invasions, rape, all manner of nastiness.

On the flip side it is true that many people are killed and injured each year by firearms, about 40,000, 10,000 being children, on the average. Thing is though that there are many other things that kill far more people, things that aren't even designed to kill people. Does that not bother anyone else? People rally around the idea of banning guns, something that yes, is designed to kill people, and yet there are tons of other things out there NOT designed to hurt anybody but they're doing a better job than the guns. I know the argument is old and tired and everyone is sick of hearing it, but lets ban cars. I know, I know, "but they're not designed to kill people!" Yeah, but they are. "But, but, people need them to get to work and whatever!" Sure, that's nice, convenience and all, but think of the children, and besides that's what we've got public transportation for.

So, like I said, some people like to sugar coat it, or pretend it's for something else, but the reason we have a right to own guns in this country is so we can do with them exactly what they're designed for, killing people. Not killing people on an every day basis for bumping into you, or taking the last Snickers bar, but for people who break into your home, people who attack you on the street, or for when society shits the bed and there isn't anyone else to protect you from the savage hordes.

[PiP]

This is true I suppose, but was the original purpose of a Bow not to kill as well? If someone tells me they are into archery I don't suddenly have the urge to pick their brain to find some deep seeded psychological basis for their hobby.

you're right about bows insofar as their origin goes.
However consider the present use of bows Vs guns. You don't see American troops in Iraq shooting bows, you don't see any soldiers in any coflicts shown in TV (and there's been quite many) carrying bows, you don't see tons of films in which people use bows ('cept for westerns, but not all of them anyway), you don't have tons of video FPS games where you shoot people with bows, etc etc; now if you consider guns in this context...

Also, intoxicated teens don't roll in their rides carrying bows. Also, psychos like serial killers, family killers etc don't shoot their victims with bows, both in reality and in films which have perhaps even stronger effect on us.

Also killing a person with a gun feels just so much technically easier, more immediate, more of a threat.

All that said, guns - in my opinion - are just people-(potentially)-killing-objects. Any other use is merely secondary and subordinate.

Quite correct.

Cheers mate!

lots of stuff

what you say is largely true. However my question that stimulated the latest part of this thread was not "should guns be legal" but "why are guns (being what they are) so exciting to some people that they will take the trouble (or apparently pleasure for them) of browsing through pictures of guns, go here and post the most exciting (for whatever reason) ones, and discuuss it."
I'm for letting grown-up, selected (based on some smart test) people who received the necessary training to posses guns to protect themselves and their families. Still the answer to the latter question is a TOTAL mystery to me.

[ApTyp]

However my question that stimulated the latest part of this thread was not "should guns be legal" but "why are guns (being what they are) so exciting to some people that they will take the trouble (or apparently pleasure for them) of browsing through pictures of guns, go here and post the most exciting (for whatever reason) ones, and discuuss it."

You don't find it probable to believe that it's reassuring to know that you can kill an angry 300 pound ex-convict in 2 seconds without him ever coming within 10 feet of you? That it's good to feel empowered to do some real, tangible good when the only thing that can stop the evil is brutal force (happens way too often even in our "civilized" society) instead of some bullshit exercise in social engineering like gun control (the babies are crying)?

Or that we look at things like weight, size, shape, finish, grip texture, trigger pull, safeties, sights, accessory rails, caliber, magazine capacity, and aftermarket accessories for reasons DIFFERENT from those one might be choosing their next computer upgrade?

[PiP]

You don't find it probable to believe that it's reassuring to know that you can kill an angry 300 pound ex-convict in 2 seconds without him ever coming within 10 feet of you? That it's good to feel empowered to do some real, tangible good when the only thing that can stop the evil is brutal force (happens way too often even in our "civilized" society) instead of some bullshit exercise in social engineering like gun control (the babies are crying)?

how does this bear on the issue of having a thread of gun pics?

[S4ur0n27]

GUNS

[VasikkA]

Yes, guns are dangerous, VERY dangerous in the hands of people who don't know how to use them, or at least the basics of firearm safety. There's no doubt of that, but they potentially save more lives than are lost every year, at least here in the United States. Depending on who you ask guns prevent anywhere from 75,000 to 2,000,000 million crimes per year. This includes robberies, carjackings, home invasions, rape, all manner of nastiness.

Guns save more lives than they terminate? I don't believe this even for a second unless you come up with a reliable non-NRA study. In reality, it is quite easy to get a gun in USA whether you acquire it legally or illegally. Liberal gun policy causes sloppyness in control and in evaluation of gun buyers. It's naive to claim that a high gun concentration doesn't affect death rates.

In case of the unlikely scenario that some psycho enters your house and starts wawing a gun, which is more likely to result in death: One angry armed person or two angry armed persons? In such a scenario, avoiding all human casualties should be the primary objective, nevermind any material possessions. That's why you have a police force and insurances, even if you always can't rely on them. But killing someone is always irreversible.

[ApTyp]

how does this bear on the issue of having a thread of gun pics?

Are you dumb? We like guns. Therefore, we exchange photos of what we have or what we'd like. Sometimes to get other person's opinion on potential purchase, to show off a rare or expensive gun you just got, or whatever.

[PiP]

Are you dumb?

No, not really - so it would seem. Somebody slightly missed the point perhaps.
Still, my question has been partly asnwered, I think I'll just accept it as sufficing.

[Aonaran]

I think perhaps you are looking for a specific answer where it does not exist and are dissappointed in not finding it. Or perhaps what we said only "partly" fit your preconcieved notions of a gun owner thus the partial answer. Maybe the one that missed the point is you? Who knows. I will agree with AyTyp though on the rationale for this thread. Just like with any other hobby it is entertaining to discuss the common interest with others and get better insight through those dialogs. No need for elaboration as he stated it about as clearly as one could (minus the ad hominem remark that served as it's introduction).

[PiP]

I think perhaps you are looking for a specific answer where it does not exist and are dissappointed in not finding it. Or perhaps what we said only "partly" fit your preconcieved notions of a gun owner thus the partial answer.

no, not really. I was looking for people sharing their reflections on the roots of their enthusiasm's big extent; it felt like the response I got was only partly overlapping the issue's scope, drifted in a slightly different direction and didn't explore my original concern. Oh well. Oh and points made by ApTyp are quite clear, also honest and somewhat interesting, hence valuable, I just didn't find some parts of them meeting my inquiry exactly, nevertheless eventually I got some good thoughts from him; all in all I don't think I really missed the point, but then again I might be wrong - it has happened more than once.

[ApTyp]

To celebrate the sale of P11 (and some other extra money I got, too) I bought CZ75 Compact. Pictures are coming.

Very rugged small pistol. I might swap the sights though.

P.S.:
I know I've said I'd buy XD or CW but those are expensive, and I got CZ for just $350. Also, shape matters more for carry than weight does, lol. I loved the safety, much easier to turn on or off with your big thumb than on Makarov.

[Antimeasure]

Wohoo, im the butterfly that started the tsunami!

[Ahab]

Dragon's Breath: Yes, these really do exist, and yes, you can order them for $16.98 each. White phosphorous that ignites upon being shot. Creates a 100-yard flamethrower that burns for about three seconds. Contrary to popular belief, this does not damage a smooth-bore shotgun.

I've seen a few of these fired off, and the above description is extremely inaccurate. It isn't a "flamethrower" by any stretch of the imagination. The phophorous-tipped round does travel about 100 yards; however, it's more like a small, round tracer. It has no penetrating or stopping power, even at point blank range.

Notable examples:

One shot was fired at about a 30 degree angle and traveled about 100 yards over a river. It landed amongst some dry brush, and there was some concern that we had just started a forest fire. . . the small flame soon extinguished itself.

Another shot was fired at a nearby pine tree. The pine tree was roughly 10 feet away from the muzzle of the shotgun. The round ricocheted harmlessly off the tree and landed against a friend's tent. A hole was burned in the tent; however, nothing serious happened.

(To put this shot in perspective: Earlier in the trip, we "sawed" a pine tree in half with a .45 Kimber 1911. It took about 10 shots and a kick, but the tree fell, by god.)

Besides being kind of pretty, they seem pretty useless. A Dragon's Breath round would probably cause an awfully painful burn if the round hit exposed skin. Who wants to spend $17/3 rounds on a flesh wound, though?

[Kashluk]

Lerar man ikke engelsk på norske skoler?

"Lærer", you mean?

Well fuck it, my Norwegian is still better than your English, cunt face

[Nicolai]

I'm totally write writing you a reply, Kashluk.

[Naked_Lunch]

We totally need official Wheelchair Warez avatars, mang.

[Kashluk]

com·bat Audio pronunciation of "combat" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (km-bt, kmbt)
v. com·bat·ed, or com·bat·ted com·bat·ing, or com·bat·ting com·bats or com·bats
v. tr.

1. To oppose in battle; fight against.
2. To oppose vigorously; struggle against. See Synonyms at oppose.

fire·arm Audio pronunciation of "firearm" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (frärm)
n.

A weapon, especially a pistol or rifle, capable of firing a projectile and using an explosive charge as a propellant.

phrase Audio pronunciation of "phrase" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (frz)
n.

1. A sequence of words intended to have meaning.

Du dumma norske hunden

[Nicolai]

It might be grammatically correct, but it still sounds pretty gay to me.

Du dumma norske hunden

You're starting to sound like an immigrant.

[Nicolai]

We totally need official Wheelchair Warez avatars, mang.

Yeah, let's force Toxie to cook something up for us.

[Kashluk]

It might be grammatically correct, but it still sounds pretty gay to me.

Du dumma norske hunden

You're starting to sound like an immigrant.

Yeah, well my point's been chewed through already so enough of that.

And no shit, what did you think, that I'm a Norwegian Professor at Oslo University? Fuck it, the propaganda the Swedish teachers feed you is that you can communicate with finesse with any scandinavian peoples once you learn to speak Swedish, but I honestly can't understand half of the shit you guys babble about (nor does most of the grammar work the same way either), not to mention how god-awful Danish or Icelandic is...