The Firearms Thread

M92FS · Post by **M92FS** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:08 am

VasikkA wrote: In case of the unlikely scenario that some psycho enters your house and starts wawing a gun, which is more likely to result in death: One angry armed person or two angry armed persons? In such a scenario, avoiding all human casualties should be the primary objective, nevermind any material possessions. That's why you have a police force and insurances, even if you always can't rely on them. But killing someone is always irreversible.

I dun think avoiding all human casualties should b the primary objective. Primary objective should b to shoot down the intruders n make sure they stay down in order to protect yoursel n your family from immediate danger.

Blargh · Post by **Blargh** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:08 am

Your comment is unnecessary.

M92FS · Post by **M92FS** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:11 am

Blargh wrote:Your comment is unnecessary.

kekeke

ApTyp · Post by **ApTyp** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:28 am

I think most people who worry about the rights of the criminals never actually met one outside lawyer-client meetings.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:30 pm

Let's not get into this limbo all over again.

GUNS

Blargh · Post by **Blargh** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:31 pm

M92FS wrote:
Blargh wrote:Your comment is unnecessary.
kekeke

Ehuehuehue.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:32 pm

ApTyp wrote:I think most people who worry about the rights of the criminals never actually met one outside lawyer-client meetings.

Well we don't live in the Turd States of America either

LET THE LIMBO BEGIN!

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:07 pm

GUNS ACTIVISTS

Lynxer · Post by **Lynxer** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:50 pm

I need a rifle to accomodate to the drastic increase of swell guy living in my town.

M92FS · Post by **M92FS** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:31 am

ApTyp wrote:Derringers have reputation for accidental discharges when dropped.

I just want .22LR, no substitutes. There's another model for .32, if you're interested.

.22LR got low stopping power , even lower than .38 Special cartridge n 9mm cartridge. U using a .22LR pistol for self defence ?

ApTyp · Post by **ApTyp** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:42 pm

No, for shooting people in the eye from 2 feet.

Lynxer · Post by **Lynxer** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:22 pm

I keep a sword close at hand to repel any uninvited guests barging into my house. Little has changed since the dark ages where I live.

ExtremeDrinker · Post by **ExtremeDrinker** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:51 pm

I sold my sword to pay for video games.

Aonaran · Post by **Aonaran** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:29 pm

M92FS wrote:.22LR got low stopping power , even lower than .38 Special cartridge n 9mm cartridge. U using a .22LR pistol for self defence ?

I'm gonna have to go with ApTyp on this one as i've heard .22s are great self defense rounds. While they don't have alot of force behind them they do create a shit load of cavitation. Not having alot of force isn't necessarily a bad thing, in fact it can be extra devastating. It isn't like you are trying to take down a cyborg, you are shooting into flesh.

A friend of mine's mother is a paramedic and reports that while the bullet has enough force to penetrate the dermus it doesn't always have the necessary force to exit so it instead 'bounces around' within the body until it's energy is spent (cavitation). Pretty nasty if you ask me, add in the concealability of a pocket gun in .22 calibur and you've got a hell of a weapon.

ApTyp · Post by **ApTyp** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:58 am

There are many victim reports who were shot with 9mm, and only felt it about a minute later.

I would think that hollow-point, high-powered handgun ammo expands more reliably than low-powered hollowpoints. Sorry Aonaran, I just don't see .22LR making larger cavities than 9mm or .45ACP.

Personally, I'd only use .22LR when a) the attacker is at an arm's length from me, or b) I can shoot him in the head, right above the eyes. Perfect pocket gun, when you don't have time to reach for your holster. And since there's about as much recoil as for CO2 gun, you can pump your victim with a dozen shots in 2 seconds.

Of course, even a headshot doesn't mean you'll kill the other guy. I read about a woman who was shot point-blank with a wadcutter .357 Magnum bullet in the front lobe, and not only did she survive, but she didn't even lose consciousness.

Aonaran · Post by **Aonaran** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:54 am

I'd agree with your usage, but i'd also agree with a trained medical professional when they tell me having a .22 bouncing around in your innards like a pinball would fuck you up mighty royally as well. I don't think there is any question a large calibur hollow point will make a bigger hole, that is not what I am arguing.

Aonaran · Post by **Aonaran** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:26 am

Oh, here are the AR pictures:

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:19 am

Lynxer wrote:I keep a sword close at hand to repel any uninvited guests barging into my house. Little has changed since the dark ages where I live.

Well that's the best way to repel Mongols, here in America we got Injuns and Canadians, so a sword is no good against them. Hitler found that out rather quickly

Now then, it's not that the .22 isn't a good round, it's just that, well, rimfire pistols just aren't on the list of reliable weapons. I'd say find something better than that thing right there, something in a centerfire caliber. .22 is good for plinking or hunting small game/eliminating pests, but it ought to be a last resort when it comes to two legged critters.

M92FS · Post by **M92FS** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:56 pm

Aonaran wrote:

A friend of mine's mother is a paramedic and reports that while the bullet has enough force to penetrate the dermus it doesn't always have the necessary force to exit so it instead 'bounces around' within the body until it's energy is spent (cavitation). Pretty nasty if you ask me, add in the concealability of a pocket gun in .22 calibur and you've got a hell of a weapon.

The bouncing effect occurs even when .22LR cartridge is fire from a handgun ?

M92FS · Post by **M92FS** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:05 pm

Top 10 Defensive Loads for handguns :

Cartridge One-Shot Stop %

Federal .40 S&W 155 grain Hydra-Shok 97%
Federal .357 Magnum 125 grain JHP 96%
Federal .45 ACP 230 grain Hydra-Shok 96%
Remington .45 ACP 185 grain Golden Saber +P 95%
Federal 9mm 115 grain JHP +P+9BPLE 93%
Triton & Cor-Bon .40 S&W 135 grain JHP 92%
Winchester .44 Magnum 210 grain Silvertip 91%
Triton .357 SIG 125 grain Rainier JHP 91%
Winchester .41 Magnum 175 grain Silvertip 90%
Federal .40 S&W 180 grain Hydra-Shok 90%

This top 10 list is comprised of those loads with the most one-shot stops in actual police shootings.The data for one-shot stops comes from retired Detroit Police Homicide Sergeant Evan Marshall. Marshall has spent 20 yrs collecting over 1300 shooting results in calibers and loads from the .22LR to the .45 Colt.

The term " one-shot stop confuses some people. here's the definition. If the agressor was shooting at the time he was hit by the bullet , no more shots are fired. If the agressor runs away after being hit by the bullet , he runs no more than 10 feet.

the protocol is based on one bullet striking anywhere on the torso. these include both cross-torso and lower adomen shots and they include bullets that must first defeat glass and metal before hitting the subject.

The above article was extracted from Guns & Ammo 2002 Annual issue Top 10 Self-Defense Loads by Cpl. Ed Sanow.

Current top 3 handgun cartridge with the highest muzzle energy :
Cartridge Muzzle Energy (FT-LBS)

1. Winchester .500 Smith & Wesson 400 grain PT 2877
2. Hornady .500 Smith & Wesson 350 grain XTP 2805
3. Cor-Bon .460 S&W Magnum 200 grain XPB 2350
3. Hornady .460 S&W Magnum 200 grain SST 2350

the above article was extracted from Guns & Ammo 2006 Annual issue Handgun cartridge ballistics table.