The Books thread.

box · Post by **box** » Thu May 04, 2006 12:51 am

Robert Schirer. Good book, but Ian Kershaw's two-volume Hitler is probably the best yet on Hitler and NSDAP.

Generally fuck hippies and beats, but I rather liked On the Road, especially Old Bull and his wifey. That guy kicks ass, and he reminds me of a guy I know.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:13 pm

Wolfman Walt wrote:I don't know about "On the Road" but "The Subterraneans" is amongst the greatest literary crimes against humanity and has convinced me that I should be greatful that Kerouac died at 47.

Care to explain?

box · Post by **box** » Thu May 04, 2006 6:01 pm

From a libertarian, right-of-center standpoint, I can admire the arguably quintessential American: people like Ginsberg and Kerouac. Beats, free thinkers, rugged individualists. I mean, people can do whatever they wanna do, who cares, right? Sitting around in your back yard with a joint and a .38, blasting tin cans and detergent bottles, that's what America's all about. And if I were a OH SHIT I HEAR THE ICE CREAM TRUCK!!!!!111!1111oneone, or Kerouac, I guess I might add sucking cock to the list.

On the other hand, Kerouac rambles incohrently, his writing is sloppy, he was a momma's boy, and he was mostly full of shit. Good story, though.

Cimmerian Nights · Post by **Cimmerian Nights** » Fri May 05, 2006 6:25 pm

box wrote:Robert Schirer. Good book, but Ian Kershaw's two-volume Hitler is probably the best yet on Hitler and NSDAP.

Reading Bullock's Hitler & Stalin now. Starts slow and takes off halfway through with the Molotov/Von Ribbentropp Pact. Really interesting to see the 2 compared/contrasted.

Just finished A Bright Shining Lie, haven't read to much on 'Nam before so it was really an eye opener. Very well written.

Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD · Fri May 05, 2006 8:45 pm

Anyone who likes a little Space Opera mixed with random archeology is bound to love Jack McDevitt.

His "A Talent for War" is a damn good book. There are two more books in that series and he has another series revolving around a woman. I think the first novel of that series is Deep Six if I remember correctly.

They are a good read if anyone is interested.

I also finished "The DaVinci Code" last week sometime and its not that bad of a book. People take shit way too seriously and look for hidden meaning where there is none. Of course, I think it was all just a huge marketing ploy to work off of.

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:32 pm

S4ur0n27 wrote:Care to explain?

Essentially what Box said - his writing style is horrible. It's convoluted and he'll spend about a page and a half writing about an electrical socket. That may be interesting to read when you're strung out on cocaine, but to the rest of the world it's BORING.

Also, the story in "The Subterreans" is one of the most pointless ever, it's about the month or so he dated a black girl who dumped him anyways. Big deal. Even the real woman who Marduo was based off of said the book was bullshit and it was never like that.

There's also something to say about Kerouac's character in the book, he's just not very likeable. I realize that the protagonist doesn't have to be likeable to make a book interesting, but he's not even interesting. He's just some self hating prick who dates a black girl because he wants to experiment while treating her like shit.

There's also the whole "Counter culture" thing that Kerouac apperently helped start, although you couldn't really tell from this book as Kerouac is not only pretty sexist, but racist as well.

Redeye · Post by **Redeye** » Sat May 06, 2006 12:47 am

Cimmerian Nights wrote:
Just finished A Bright Shining Lie, haven't read to much on 'Nam before so it was really an eye opener. Very well written.

Fucking looong.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:19 pm

I didn't think you could hate Kerouac that much

Dharma bums was brilliant, and so far On the road is excellent as well. I don't know about racism and sexism though, he's just not giving nobody any bullshit and pretending to be a do-gooder. I mean they're 20. They drink, break things and party.

Of course we're not talking about Hemingway or Hugo, it's not the same kind of literature. It's just madly entertaining, fresh and young.

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:47 pm

But that's just the thing, in the book he is pretending not to be that. He says he supports Mardou and her choices for instance, but wishes to obligate her into the role of his wife. I dunno, I think the books just an excuse to talk about the time he had gay sex and had jungle fever for a month.

Naked_Lunch · Post by **Naked_Lunch** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:41 pm

William S. Burroughs puts that punk Kerouac in his place.

box · Post by **box** » Fri May 12, 2006 11:52 pm

Wolfman Walt wrote:I think the books just an excuse to talk about the time he had gay sex and had jungle fever for a month.

And pretend to be someone he's not...

Will the real Dean Moriarty please stand up?

POOPERSCOOPER · Post by **POOPERSCOOPER** » Sat May 13, 2006 2:29 am

Whats Neal Stephensen best book besides Snow Crash(already read)?

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sat May 13, 2006 4:57 am

Cryptonomicon is quite good, if a bit long. I haven't read diamond age or that fatass trilogy of his.

box · Post by **box** » Sun May 14, 2006 7:16 pm

Diamond Age was my favorite, but friends of mine argue Cryptonomicon [which I've never read] was his best.

SF short story pulp junkie here-- love the Year's Best line. Also, it's fun to read old Frank Herbert short stories to see him working out characters and plot junk for Dune.

Still want to see a huge, sprawling Dune RPG done, but totally unrelated to swell guy Paul or Duke Leto or that single, overused storyline. More like an unrelated Dune RPG, kind of like the storylines for those shit Star Wars games like Dark Forces or KOTOR.

Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD · Tue May 16, 2006 6:12 pm

box wrote:Diamond Age was my favorite, but friends of mine argue Cryptonomicon [which I've never read] was his best.

SF short story pulp junkie here-- love the Year's Best line. Also, it's fun to read old Frank Herbert short stories to see him working out characters and plot junk for Dune.

Still want to see a huge, sprawling Dune RPG done, but totally unrelated to swell guy Paul or Duke Leto or that single, overused storyline. More like an unrelated Dune RPG, kind of like the storylines for those shit Star Wars games like Dark Forces or KOTOR.

Its really too bad that Dune is a fucking horrible and boring novel. People who read all the way through must have some drive that says "read this fucking horrible book or no one will respect you".

Blargh · Post by **Blargh** » Tue May 16, 2006 7:20 pm

It is a good thing that I know what to expect from you, Mandy, or your brazen display of a window to a wafer thin world view would in all probability mildly distress me. Bemoan the ego. Go on. The projection of personal sentiment into and over facts of life. Life and concrete. Which would not be a good thing, for a moment or five. Perhaps.

Redeye · Post by **Redeye** » Tue May 16, 2006 8:15 pm

Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD wrote:
Its really too bad that Dune is a fucking horrible and boring novel. People who read all the way through must have some drive that says "read this fucking horrible book or no one will respect you".

I read all the way through the first four. Then I bailed.

I had more patience when I was 12.

Fa11lloutfan_15 · Post by **Fa11lloutfan_15** » Tue May 16, 2006 8:31 pm

A friend of mine insists that I read On The Road. Does it actually suck? Because if it does, turning her down would be the perfect revenge for her calling Kafka 'pretentious', despite never having read him.

Thor Kaufman · Post by **Thor Kaufman** » Tue May 16, 2006 8:39 pm

TinyTeeth wrote:A friend of mine insists that I read On The Road. Does it actually suck? Because if it does, turning her down would be the perfect revenge for her calling Kafka 'pretentious', despite never having read him.

Why would you go on "revenge" with an ugly girl that talks about sucky books?

Fa11lloutfan_15 · Post by **Fa11lloutfan_15** » Tue May 16, 2006 8:42 pm

Thor Kaufman wrote:
TinyTeeth wrote:A friend of mine insists that I read On The Road. Does it actually suck? Because if it does, turning her down would be the perfect revenge for her calling Kafka 'pretentious', despite never having read him.
Why would you go on "revenge" with an ugly girl that talks about sucky books?

Becuase it would be good for my eternal soul. Karma etc.