Duck and Cover

The original Solaris is one of the bleakest movies i've ever seen. It was also very nihilistic where I couldn't help but think Soderbergh's version was somewhat Christian in it's message. Maybe that is just me, a great film nonetheless with amazing performances. Oh and is it just me or is Natascha McElhone dead sexy? Again, might just be me.

VasikkA wrote:

Cimmerian Nights wrote:Pulp Fiction.

That is true. I saw Pulp Fiction on television a while ago and didn't remember it was that crap. Especially the ending is unsatisfactory. I think that applies to most Tarantino movies, if you watch them more than once. The pace is simply too slow.

Another overrated movie is Apocalypse now. It doesn't even go to my top 20 war movies. The redux version is just pure agony to watch.

PiP wrote:The Matrix

It's overrated if you listen to sci-fi fans. I don't think normal people took that movie seriously. I myself thought it was plain ridiculous, although I just saw the first two parts.

I also agree with you about Alien. The sequels were much better.

Whoa, so much here to disagree with. While I will agree with your statement on Tarintino's single serving appeal I would only say it applies to Resevoir Dogs (one I happen to think is EXEPTIONALLY overrated) and the Kill Bill movies. Jackie Brown and Pulp Fiction however are excellent (since there is actually more for you to get from it on repeat viewings). Also you might consider that you were watching it ON TELEVISION so without doubt it was severely truncated. Pulp Fiction would have just been a long string of pop culture references if it didn't have the ending it did specifically because you wouldn't consider the events that had taken place as anything more than meaningless happenings. Also slow pacing is only bad when it isn't deliberate.

Apocalypse Now didn't really interest me when I first saw it so naturally I considered it overrated (this being in high school, cut me a break). Also it was a shit VHS copy in mono sound on a bad TV. Anyways It seem too chopped up and incoherant, a problem the Redux resolved, solidifying it as one of my all time favorite movies. This is another one that bends the genre in an interesting way to make something new and completely unexpected, something you seem to be holding against it as a falut. For shame.

Finally Alien was far superior to it's sequels, I guess this is another question of pace. It didn't have Bill Paxton laying down supressive fire and saying "GAME OVER MAN" but it did have a wonderful building plot with classic Ridley Scott pace. While the later Alien movies might have more raw entertainment value (making out with aliens, jumping into lava, GUNS!) they will never be half of what Alien is.

Aonaran wrote:Finally Alien was far superior to it's sequels, I guess this is another question of pace. It didn't have Bill Paxton laying down supressive fire and saying "GAME OVER MAN" but it did have a wonderful building plot with classic Ridley Scott pace. While the later Alien movies might have more raw entertainment value (making out with aliens, jumping into lava, GUNS!) they will never be half of what Alien is.

Agreed, it's held up real fucking well for a 25 (?) year old sci-fi movie. Aliens jumped the shark with the opening scene when Ripley does the chesterburster routine - only to wake up later...ahh it was just a dream. Bush league shit Mr. Cameron.

I think last time we had this thread it came to a similair conclusion where it just seemed to be list movies people like and you don't. For instance, lord of the rings is overrated. The movies aren't that good to have so many fans. I don't really think Apocalypse Now is overated, neither is Pi or Brazil or a bunch of other films listed.

Eh, perhaps we just have different definitions of overated. For me it's when you're talking to someone about movies and they just name drop to make themselves seem more interesting. Though I guess you could say the same about this discussion, the former seems to happen more and gets more repetitive. YES I'VE SEEN DONNIE DARKO YOU MOTHERFUCKER jeez

Megatron wrote:Eh, perhaps we just have different definitions of overated. For me it's when you're talking to someone about movies and they just name drop to make themselves seem more interesting. Though I guess you could say the same about this discussion, the former seems to happen more and gets more repetitive. YES I'VE SEEN DONNIE DARKO YOU MOTHERFUCKER jeez

I agree, this will invariably become a case of my tastes over yours. That said, it already is.

Cimmerian Nights wrote:

Aonaran wrote:Finally Alien was far superior to it's sequels, I guess this is another question of pace. It didn't have Bill Paxton laying down supressive fire and saying "GAME OVER MAN" but it did have a wonderful building plot with classic Ridley Scott pace. While the later Alien movies might have more raw entertainment value (making out with aliens, jumping into lava, GUNS!) they will never be half of what Alien is.

Agreed, it's held up real fucking well for a 25 (?) year old sci-fi movie. Aliens jumped the shark with the opening scene when Ripley does the chesterburster routine - only to wake up later...ahh it was just a dream. Bush league shit Mr. Cameron.

I don't think Alien hold up well today, I saw it in a theaters just a couple years ago and somethings in it just crawled. It literally took them forever to do the alien spaceship sequence. I thought Aliens was an excellent film, especially the special edition version because it makes it more complete and well rounded.


THe movie I think is the most overrated of all time is Gladiator. I remeber seeing it when it came out and it was alright but soon after everyones like "omg that was one of the best movies I ever saw." Even all the kids my age were saying how bloody and awesome it was, I was surprised.

I thought the re-edit of Aliens was awful, it explained too much too early and killed the sense of mystery and suspense. Some of the later stuff was alright but all of the sequences on the colony before the marine landing was superfluous and killed the build up for me. And yes, Alien is slow, I think it is more a question of technique rather than "holding up" or not. I'm sure it was slow for 1979 as well, all good Ridley Scott movies are.

While on Ridley Scott I agree about Gladiator, it was a piece of shit. That is the movie that affirmed for me that Russell Crowe cannot act to save his life. Not very impressive at all.

Oh, please. Aliens was a thousand times better than the original in every way. Better acting, better pacing, better plot, better buildup, better finale, better one-liners. The original is good, but...come on.

Aonaran wrote:Also slow pacing is only bad when it isn't deliberate.

Slow pacing is slow pacing. In a movie like Pulp Fiction, slow pacing drags the whole enterprise down. Bruce Willis' chapter grinds the movie to a halt.

Subhuman wrote:Better acting

Ho ho, indeed. Alien had Tom Skerritt, Harry Dean Stanton, John Hurt, and Ian Holm. Aliens on the other hand had PAUL REISER AND BILL PAXTON! EGADS! (I will however give Aliens Lance Henriksen)

Subhuman wrote:better plot

Aliens had one of the more original plots in Science Fiction film. Aliens had marines shooting shit and the government/corporation was evil.

Subhuman wrote:better finale

Aliens concluded with a half naked Sigourney Weaver fighting one of the most original and menacing monsters in film (credit to HR Giger) in a battle of wits. Aliens had a mech, a giant alien and a big explosion. As far as action I agree it is more entertaining, that is not what I am arguing, I am saying Alien is a far superior film. Case in point:

Subhuman wrote:better one-liners

Alien didn't need one liners, it could stand on it's own withough mechs, Godzilla Aliens and archetypal marines to fuck shit up (although Michael Biehn is a badass). I enjoy Aliens just fine (original cut) I just don't think it would be much of a movie if you took out the explosions, the plot afterall was pretty cookie cutter (evil weasily guy tries to fuck everyone over, Johnny hero helps save the day, mother defends daughter when she naturally falls into the hands of the big bad alien etc etc etc, typical action movie fair). To put it simply Alien was a movie and Aliens was a sequel, granted it was one of the better sequels i've seen.

I liked Aliens better for one reason and one reason only: Paul Reiser gets his at the end. God how I hate that fuck. If you want to make me like a movie have Paul Reiser get killed in it at some point. And make it violent and gory, none of that painless death shit either. Have him fall off a three story building onto a iron gate, then as he's laying there impaled on it have a bunch of cyclists ride by and punch him in the head. Finally a raccoon or possum rips open his gut and makes a nest inside, all while Reiser is still alive and screaming.

You know what, just have that happen in the real world and sell it. Ninety minutes of Paul Reiser falling off the building, getting beat up and turned into a home for a rodent. You'll make millions. It'll be the best film EVAR. It'll make all of the good movies mentioned here look like the stinkiest pile of horse shit. Oh yes.

Furthermore I think Quentin Tarantino is a festering shit bubble. I hate him. I really do. I hate his technique. I hate his style. I hate his face. I hate the vast majority of his movies. Pulp Fiction and Kill Bill Vol. 1 were okay, but it seems like every one points out those two movies and go "OMG Tarantino is teh greetest!"

I can't stand how all of his movies are told out of order. "But, airsoft, it's artistic he's a super genius for that!" No, bullshit, it's stupid. You can't do that with books, if you did the publisher would laugh at you and then kick you in the groin. And if they did somehow publish it all the people that read the book would come and burn down your home. It's not edgy, it's not artistic, it's not cool, it's just fucking queer.

Anyhow, The Grudge. I think I've explained this more times than I care to remember, but every time someone brings up crappy and overrated movies this one pops into my mind and I lapse into a quick coma so I don't fly into a rage and kill the nearest living thing. Fuckers.

Pretty much anything from M. Night Shamalangadingdong. The guy's just a fuckhat and it shows in his work.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Saving Private Ryan. It was a good film, it really was, but it's not that good. The way some people still talk about it sort of makes me want to punch a veteran. It just does, I don't really have a reason for it. I guess maybe it could be that just about every fucking video game about World War 2 must now have the D-Day beach-landing scene in it. Why do people love that so much? Christ it would have sucked to be there, I don't wanna play that. Put me on a U-Boat, or sneaking around the hedgerows in France or running around Berlin capping some Nazis, or up over Schweinfurt blasting some BF109's, but not that fucking beach. Fuck the beach. Fuck it in it's big beach ass.

I've never seen Fight Club because everyone always tells me to watch it, it's sooooooo fucking awesome. I've got a friend who lives by the movie and the book. At one point he would watch it every fucking day. I'd call him up and see if he wanted to hang out or something, nope, can't, busy watching Fight Club. He's one of those guys that pretty much hates the establishment and the government, but then talks about how we need more controls on things and the government should step in and take over industry. Sort of like that cunt in my last year of high school who thought communism would work pretty good under anarchy. She was a, yes good sirs, a Communist Anarchist. I'm surprised the ghosts of Karl Marx and, uh, Andy the Anarchist, haven't showed up to beat her with shoes.

Never seen Scarface but Goodfellas is good times right there. One of the better mobster movies to come out.

Another good one was Carlito's Way, mostly because Sean Penn gets wasted for being a worthless lawyer coke head. This prequel that came out, was like direct to video or some shit, haven't seen it and wont because it just looks stupid. It has this fucker in it, ain't even gonna say his name because I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS ANYMORE. So you know it's gonna suck balls.

airsoft guy wrote: I can't stand how all of his movies are told out of order. "But, airsoft, it's artistic he's a super genius for that!" No, bullshit, it's stupid. You can't do that with books, if you did the publisher would laugh at you and then kick you in the groin. And if they did somehow publish it all the people that read the book would come and burn down your home. It's not edgy, it's not artistic, it's not cool, it's just fucking queer.

The book Starship Troopers was told out of order, and it worked extremely well.

Which leads me to an extremely overrated movie: Starship Troopers. The book invented the concept of power armor. If Heinlein hadn't wrote it, there'd be no Gundam Wing, Battletech, Jin Roh, or a Fallout with power armor. The book also speaks mostly about military history, moral correctness and citizenship, which are aspects completely lacking in the film. AND WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE MOBILE SUITS? Those are what makes Mobile Infantry mobile for Christ's sake!

Another overrated movie: all the Bourne movies. The film adaptation of
The Bourne Identity uses a completely seperate story arc than the book, and the Bourne Supremacy happens entirely in China aside from the opening scene in Jason Bourne's living room!

Plenty of good points. Especially on Tarantino, Saving Private Ryan and Bourne-movies. Fight Club was a nice movie overall, it had some interesting ideas, but I as well hate the fanbois that don't really have a fucking idea what the point of the movie was and still want to 'live by it'.

Aonaran wrote: stuff about Alien and Aliens

I couldn't agree more. Alien never got old for me. It was groundbreaking for its time, now we have planty of alien-movies so it no longer is, but Alien exceeds most of them by far. The pace is just excellent, there's no tension in marine squad firing guns, explosions and such. The only good parts of Aliens are waiting before aliens come and breech the door, the android (nice reference to the 1st film)..

To put it simply, Alien and Aliens are like Fallout and FOBOS, be it only for the use of costumes and fancy gear.

One Million Dollar Baby was dogshit.

Chuck p. Said while Watching Fight Club," It was like going to your wedding and the brides maid was even more gorgeous then the bride."

Yeah, I don't know how to read very well, but I beleive Mr. Palahniuk read some of Fight Club.

Retlaw83 wrote:The book invented the concept of power armor. If Heinlein hadn't wrote it, there'd be no Gundam Wing

Actually, Starship troopers has nothing to do with the creation of Japanese mecha, which started in 1958 by Mitsuteru Yokoyama with Gigantor, one year before Starship troopers was ever published. Get your facts right >=(.

Also - Aliens > Alien. Additionally, despite the two movies being from the same series, they are of two subtly different genres so comparing them to the same things are like comparing apples and oranges. Alien is a horrible action movie. Aliens is a great action movie. Alien is a great thriller. Aliens is maybe a mediocre thriller at best.

Aonaran wrote:Whoa, so much here to disagree with. While I will agree with your statement on Tarintino's single serving appeal I would only say it applies to Resevoir Dogs (one I happen to think is EXEPTIONALLY overrated) and the Kill Bill movies. Jackie Brown and Pulp Fiction however are excellent (since there is actually more for you to get from it on repeat viewings). Also you might consider that you were watching it ON TELEVISION so without doubt it was severely truncated. Pulp Fiction would have just been a long string of pop culture references if it didn't have the ending it did specifically because you wouldn't consider the events that had taken place as anything more than meaningless happenings. Also slow pacing is only bad when it isn't deliberate.

Let me elaborate.

I know the theme in Pulp Fiction and maybe that is the problem. It's not a serious movie; Jackson and Travolta swearing and talking endless shit and then nailing someone on the wall. I thought Pulp Fiction, Jackie Brown and Resrvoir Dogs were OK the first time I saw them, but on the second time Tarantinos magic tricks like camera angles and other small details just don't feel that remarkable.

Apocalypse Now didn't really interest me when I first saw it so naturally I considered it overrated (this being in high school, cut me a break). Also it was a shit VHS copy in mono sound on a bad TV. Anyways It seem too chopped up and incoherant, a problem the Redux resolved this, solidifying it as one of my all time favorite movies. This is another one that bends the genre in an interesting way to make something new and completely unexpected, something you seem to be holding against it as a falut. For shame.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't remain interested enough if a movie lasts over 3 hours. The cut version was OK, but I've seen much better war movies(mostly WWII, but still). The fact that Apocalypse Now gets bizarre towards the end just emphasizes the frustrated feeling caused by the length. A low budget, box office success doesn't mean it's the best film in universe. I think this applies to Blair Witch Project and to most 'cult movies'.

Finally Alien was far superior to it's sequels, I guess this is another question of pace. It didn't have Bill Paxton laying down supressive fire and saying "GAME OVER MAN" but it did have a wonderful building plot with classic Ridley Scott pace. While the later Alien movies might have more raw entertainment value (making out with aliens, jumping into lava, GUNS!) they will never be half of what Alien is.

Alien is OK, but it relied too much on suspense and no action. I think there shouldn't be too much of either. It was basically Ripley versus the alien in quiet darkness all the way. The other persons seemed insignificant.

I liked the squad-based action in Aliens. It had a good mix of action and suspense, and the feeling of exploring the unknown. There are more memorable moments in Aliens than in any other Alien movie, like going into the Alien base.

As far as Aliens and Alien is concerned I judge quality of a movie on the originality of the concept and new or innovative technique in storytelling or writing. Alien for me achieved all of these criterion for quality. Aliens on the other hand like I stated before was pretty much a run of the mill action movie. What it had going for it was that it was a run of the mill action movie based on a GREAT Science Fiction film and that it was made by a good action director before he fell from grace into a hideous pit of suck.

While in execution it was possibly the most sucessful action movie sequel I have ever seen it didn't really do alot of things that were new, it just did a great job of combining alot of things that had been done before. Not to say that this isn't without it's merits. You might argue that this is a limitation of the action genre and therefore prohibits me from judging it to these standards, however I do not think this to be the case. I think all genres have potential to do new things that really challenge the genre (see my earlier rant) and do something new. I would list some action movies that come to mind that do this but wouldn't want to run the risk of "name dropping to make myself seem more interesting."

I also didn't dislike the third Alien movie, I think the visual style and bleakness were VERY cool. The execution of the story could have been better though and the dialog didn't match the style or appearance in quality. While it very clearly wasn't a typical action movie in it's approach the writing was filled with one liners and action movie cliche which totally killed any other redeaming qualities. Not because these are necessarily bad but because they had no place in such a serious and dark film. All the dramatic elements were in place but a few major misteps queered the whole deal. This is my third favorite of the Alien franchise and I don't really think the others are worth mention. (Although I must admit as different as Ressurection was it might be worth a second viewing, I was after all quiet young when I saw it in theaters)

Oh, and I played the shit out of AVP on my Atari Jaguar and loved every minute of it. Great game, could never see going to see the movie however. This is why it perplexes me so to see Doom fans flocking to see the movie, people that have been dreaming about there being one since childhood. I have been wanting to see my two favorite on screen monsters duke it out since I was in grade school but as soon as I heard Paul W.S. Anderson was behind the project I knew I had no reason to set foot in that theater, it would cause only pain.

Pearl fucking Harbour. Actually this 'movie' manages to achieve one thing. Not getting anything right. Ãœbermastubation for old people and John Wayne war-movie fans. I had to puke when Cuba Gooding Jr started the mandatory 'black soldiers were also patriotic and heroic' part shooting and yelling in slow motion.

Pearly Harbor wasn't so much a movie as much as my eyes being raped by blantant over patriotic messages and romance. It doesn't qualify as being mentioned.