Ask Hammer Redux

MurPHy · Post by **MurPHy** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:17 am

Here's where you ask our own resident Army Ranger (ret.) anything you want! Have fun!

To start it off, hey Hammer, I've been wondering about this for a while, so here goes. Is the M1911A1 better than modern .45s? And I'm talking about the stuff that Wilson Combat does with M1911s, as well as others.

Also, if the .50AE round was chambered in a worthwhile weapon (not that POS Desert Eagle), do you think that it would be a better combat round than the .45 as far as penetration and stopping power is concerned?

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:31 am

The original M1911A1 is not better then modern ones, that's a given. Modern ones feature many, many improvements over the old school ones such as lowered ejection ports, extended ejectors, flared ports, Novak sights, sharper extractors, extended mag releases, catches, safeties, and beveled magazine wells.

However, when buying a new M1911A1 you need to be sure what you WANT it to do. The original M1911 was made when warfare was a dirtier business, crawling through Trenches filled with mud and fighting in the cold wet snow. To compete with these conditions they were finely made to be loose in tolerances (pick up any original M1911 and shake it) so they'd be VERY reliable. Put a modern day M1911A1 in a WW1 trench warfare situation and it's combat effectiveness would be very low. So if you want a good MODERN combat M1911 for a reasonable amount of money try Springfield Armory, the weapons from Wilson Combat are good so don't get me wrong, but they're too expensive to be practical for you and I to buy.

Also, if the .50AE round was chambered in a worthwhile weapon (not that POS Desert Eagle), do you think that it would be a better combat round than the .45 as far as penetration and stopping power is concerned?

Yes, but the .454Casull is an even better choice.

POOPERSCOOPER · Post by **POOPERSCOOPER** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:41 am

I always feel constipated when i'm at school, and everytime beforei leave in the morning I try to go to the bathroom to prevent it but I just can't go. I only get the urge in mid mornings, and I never use the school toilets because there messed up. Because of all this i tend to have an odor in my classes and it has been mentioned to me on a couple of occasions, i just smell like a giant fart because I try and hold in all my gas and stuff but it just leaks out because it's impossible to hold so their like silent passive fart all day long.

What can i do hammer?

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:16 am

But aren't both .50 and .454 a bit of an over-kill? I know you're a firm believer of that principle, but still they seem to be "a bit too much" for pistol ammunition.

What would YOU call well balanced pistol round, in the sense of recoil/effectiveness etc. Others besides .45?

trythebill · Post by **trythebill** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:48 am

.40 smith and wesson is a fairly good round for handgun use.

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:06 am

Kashluk wrote:But aren't both .50 and .454 a bit of an over-kill? I know you're a firm believer of that principle, but still they seem to be "a bit too much" for pistol ammunition.

What would YOU call well balanced pistol round, in the sense of recoil/effectiveness etc. Others besides .45?

Now I'm no expert, and I'm not Hammer, nor do I play him on T.V. but, it seems to me that when you shoot someone you probably had a good reason to do so, you know, chasing you with a sharp stick or kicking your mom in the face, you probably want the guy to just lay down and take a dirtnap. Sometimes they don't cooperate on their own, so you have to give them a lead sleeping pill, something fast acting and powerful. Now, I'm also not an expert on the rules of combat, but the way I hear it told, anything less than .40 caliber and you might as well get a pellet gun. The name of the game is overkill, if you can't do that, well you might be in a world of hurt, I reckon.

trythebill · Post by **trythebill** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:10 am

Do not attend a gunfight with a hand gun whose caliber does not start with a 4.

i'd still prefer a rifle for my gunfighting needs.

Kizmiaz · Post by **Kizmiaz** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:05 pm

Dear Hammer.

When I did my service, we had Mausers. Bolt-action ones with 5 rounds in the mag + 1 in the pipe, if I remember correctly. Weird caliber too, 6,95 or 7,62 FMJ or sumthang thereabout.

I just wonder which is the most accurate rifle, the Mauser or the M1 Garand?

Edit: Fu**ing Alzheimer. Caliber should be 6,5.

MurPHy · Post by **MurPHy** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:55 pm

Thanks for the advice there Hammer. I'll check out springfield ASAP. As for the the .454 Casull, I've little knowledge of that, so I'll do some research on it.

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:43 pm

Dear Hammer.

When I did my service, we had Mausers. Bolt-action ones with 5 rounds in the mag + 1 in the pipe, if I remember correctly. Weird caliber too, 6,95 or 7,62 FMJ or sumthang thereabout.

I just wonder which is the most accurate rifle, the Mauser or the M1 Garand?

Edit: Fu**ing Alzheimer. Caliber should be 6,5.

A good Bolt Action rifle will always be more accurate then a good semi-automatic rifle, however on many occasions the difference may be Minot or pointless in combat situations.

A Mauser 98k, 8mm, standard issue to all German soldiers in WW2 was more accurate then the M1 Garand past 500 yards. However, from 300 yards or less (where most engagements occurred) they were practically the same in accuracy. A few things though make a semi-automatic better then a bolt action for combat, here is a list.

1. Gas operation: Gas operation absorbs a good bit of the recoil with diverting the gas from the barrel to the piston, thus helping you keep your sight on target.
2. Always ready: When you fire a bolt action, you must always cycle the bolt to reload a next round. This takes time and normally removes your sight from the target hence making a follow up shot that much harder.
3. Weight: A good majority of the semi-automatic rifles weigh more then the bolt action, this ALSO takes away a good bit of the recoil.
4. Fire power: Soldiers like firepower, the ability for a weapon to give both accurate aimed fire and suppressive fire is truly a beautiful thing.
5. Ease of loading: The M1 Garand kicked the clip out of the rifle once empty, allowing the soldiers to quickly and efficiently load a new one in to the magazine. After the M1 Garand most semi-automatics are box fed. There are of course some detachable box magazine bolt actions. (A modified German K98 comes to mind)

i'd still prefer a rifle for my gunfighting needs.

Exactly, a pistol is something you carry when you're NOT expecting a fight. A weapon of defense, your sidearm.

What would YOU call well balanced pistol round, in the sense of recoil/effectiveness etc. Others besides .45?

.40 S&W or 10mm

I always feel constipated when i'm at school, and everytime beforei leave in the morning I try to go to the bathroom to prevent it but I just can't go. I only get the urge in mid mornings, and I never use the school toilets because there messed up. Because of all this i tend to have an odor in my classes and it has been mentioned to me on a couple of occasions, i just smell like a giant fart because I try and hold in all my gas and stuff but it just leaks out because it's impossible to hold so their like silent passive fart all day long.

Sneak in to the girl's bathroom, they're always clean.

But aren't both .50 and .454 a bit of an over-kill? I know you're a firm believer of that principle, but still they seem to be "a bit too much" for pistol ammunition.

The only time a pistol caliber would be "too much" is if you can't handle the recoil or the weapon can't handle the caliber, much like the Desert Eagle.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:03 pm

That's pretty much what I thought... If you have no skin left in your palm after one or two rounds, it *must* be a bit "too much".

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:05 pm

Since you're an expert on rifles and a critic on marines, I was wondering what was your opinion on Oswald's kennedy assasination. Especially considering he did it with a $20 WWI Italian (I think it was a Mannlicher) bolt action rifle, a $5 plastic scope, against a moving fairly concealed target with things such as trees in the way.

Also - it might be worth noting that Oswald barely passed his marksmanship test in the Marines by 2 points I believe.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:18 pm

Yes and in the end there were found a total of seven (if I remember correctly) bullets, although only 3 fired shots from that sucki-sucki Italian rifle were recorded as evidence.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:31 am

Hammer wrote:2. Always ready: When you fire a bolt action, you must always cycle the bolt to reload a next round. This takes time and normally removes your sight from the target hence making a follow up shot that much harder.

Most of the WWII-era bolt-actions also have long-actions which force the firer to either break his stock-to-cheek weld, or crack himself in the nose when cycling the action. Weapons chambered in 7.62mm NATO or .303 British do not have this drawback.

Hammer wrote:5. Ease of loading: The M1 Garand kicked the clip out of the rifle once empty, allowing the soldiers to quickly and efficiently load a new one in to the magazine.

This is one of those things than can help or hinder you. German soldiers quickly learned that when they heard the "TING!" of an ejecting clip they had a vulnerable soldier opposite them. Of course, some GI were known to use this to their own advantage, firing, then tossing a clip, or having someone w/a loaded rifle covering while they reloaded.

Also, most bolt-actions were loaded from a stripper clip, which is basically just as fast as as the Garand's en bloc clip. This is usually not on option on civilian bolt actions, or even modern sniper rifles.

i'd still prefer a rifle for my gunfighting needs.

I agree w/ttb and Hammer, here. If you know you're going to get into a fight, bring a rifle (or if the terrain permits: a shotgun loaded w/slugs). Pistols are a compromise weapon, balancing between easy portability, concealability, etc. and power, capacity, etc.

OTB

trythebill · Post by **trythebill** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:50 am

OnTheBounce wrote:Also, most bolt-actions were loaded from a stripper clip, which is basically just as fast as as the Garand's en bloc clip. This is usually not on option on civilian bolt actions, or even modern sniper rifles.

8 rounds is much better than 5.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:13 am

trythebill wrote:8 rounds is much better than 5.

That depends solely on whether you're hitting anything, or not.

There's also other factors to consider. For instance, the German Army of WWII may have been armed w/bolt-actions, but their squad organization was very much different from other armies. They had an organic Light Machinegun for every squad (MG34, later MG42) which was seen as the primary weapon of the squad. The other members of the squad were there to protect the machinegunner and carry ammo for him. Other armies usually had heavier Machineguns, but only at the platoon level. So a German squad generally had more firepower than their enemies. (There were exceptions, like Soviet Guards infantry which was liberally equipped with SMGs, but at range that advantage still stood.)

Then again, you might want to take a look at other battlefield factors, like casualties taken from different causes. You'll find that in WWII artillery was the big killer.

OTB

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:21 am

Artillery has *always* been the big killer. I read some article about the history of warfare and there were calculations that artillery has brought more casualties than all other ground forces combined in (semi-)modern warfare.

If you're sitting in a trench/a castle/a bunker, indirect fire is the *only* option to kick your butt efficiently.

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:25 am

Also, most bolt-actions were loaded from a stripper clip, which is basically just as fast as as the Garand's en bloc clip. This is usually not on option on civilian bolt actions, or even modern sniper rifles.

I've always had problems with Stripper clips though, I found the Garand's system, while very similiar, much easier.

Just move your thumb out of the way in time

Kizmiaz · Post by **Kizmiaz** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:27 am

Kashluk wrote:Artillery has *always* been the big killer. I read some article about the history of warfare and there were calculations that artillery has brought more casualties than all other ground forces combined in (semi-)modern warfare.

I can buy that. It's not nice when your comerades far away from the front line lay a barrage a bit too short.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:33 am

... with casualties I meant on casualties on the enemy's side

But I still agree with you, kizurazz. Having 12 kilotons of explosives poured down at you by your comrades can't be good.