Duck and Cover

Here's my idea.

Time to become THE Vault Dweller again, the grandfather of The Chosen One, he who came out of V13, found the Water Chip, and was exiled. The same character you played in FO1. In fact, if you still have the save game, you can upload it to FOIII just like you could upload your Baulder's Gate character to Baulder's Gate 2.

(How this would work is... If you bring an old FO character in, the difficulty will be upped to match your level. If you play a new character, you start on the easiest difficulty)

You have just been exiled from the Vault, and you are searching for a new home, with only what you gathered in your travels as your supplies.

The wasteland is filled with Super Mutants, fleeing the Millitary Base and the Cathedral. Your enemy, on your journey to find a new home? A super Mutant force that is determined to keep the Masters dream alive, and is gathering forces to destroy the region that the game takes place in, and dip all who surrender.

The kicker? We see an enemy from the south, a large raider clan, supplying the mutants. They wish to see the region in chaos, so they can sweep in and take it over, forcefully. Their being controled by an unknown highly advanced group though (Guess who... The Enclave. First time we see them, and only at the end briefly.)

The end of the game is you reaching the area where Arroyo will be founded, by those that have joined you during your journey, and the Vault Dwellers that followed you.

To reach that goal, you have to stop a Super Mutant invasion of Shady Sands (Which during the game will start to form into the NCR with your help), find out who is aiding them, stop the raiders, find the Enclave suppliers, and destroy their base on the mainland, along with their commanding officer, who will be wearing kickass power armor, and will attempt first to turn you to his side. If you accept, you will have to go back to the NCR, and help the raiders take it over. If you don't accept, you get to kill him and finish the game.

Ideas? Suggestions?

The idea itself is quite good...but the implementation would be "more of the same" (mutants, Enclave) and that I don't like. Maybe I will post later with some of my own ideas...

The problem with prequels is making them work within the confines of the things that were done beforehand that actually take place after the prequel.

Factor in an open ended game situation where there's no way to determine what the player will do, and you have a mess waiting to happen.

Which is why it shuld, in the typical Fallout-style, be placed 80 years after Fallout 2. Preferably further north, or a bit east, of the original Fallout game.

Yes, but don't forget, for FOII, they assumed that you did all the "Good' quests and completed them in FOI.

Cameron Hobson wrote:Yes, but don't forget, for FOII, they assumed that you did all the "Good' quests and completed them in FOI.

Only in a few places, primarily in the south part of Fallout 2.. The NCR history holodisk was probably the main thing that had the most assumptions about it since it covered a lot of what happened in Fallout. Of course, it also said the population of the entire Republic was 700,000, which is a very large number. Things like that should have been left out.

I can accept it when they believed that we had killed tha master, destroyed Mariposa, etc. but when they started presuming that we had done all of the good quests- well, that got me riled up a bit as well...

FO3 should be only a few years after the nukes were dropped, scenes from Terminator in the future wars are what I'm taling about! Half buildings still standing, cars everywhere, you must fight to stay alive, no plant life, no water, no food. Just left over canned items and such! Remember madmax2??? When Max was eating the dog food, that is what a post nuke game should be about, trying to stay alive lol!

In FO2 the timeline is at the end to be concidered a post nuke game, because come on! Its something like 140 years after! I dont think useable cars would be left, let alone "any" buildings that long after a nuke attack! Generations have passed... it turns more into a "save the world" game after that long cause everyone has already been rebuilt there is nothing to explore.... even the maker of the original game said it was moving away from what he wanted because left the scene, to explore the wasteland and survive! Come on would you really be trying to save the planet if your developing tyroid cancer, and have trouble just finding food, or water???

Well anyway I loved all the fallout games (even though FOT is getting a little out there BUT STILL LOADS OF FUN!!!) My favorite being FO1 of course, but FO2 was great because you could finaly get some tail in the future! hehehe....

Later

Saint_Proverbius wrote:The problem with prequels is making them work within the confines of the things that were done beforehand that actually take place after the prequel.

Factor in an open ended game situation where there's no way to determine what the player will do, and you have a mess waiting to happen.

I think there's enough room to get around that. If you have a prequel, you can set it in an area away from FO1 & FO2. I mean, we only know what happened in California. We've got no idea about the rest of the United States.

If you handle it carefully enough, you could actually avoid most instances. The Fallout world that we know is actually quite small. What's happening in other parts of the country are unknown. (Unless there's some info somewhere that I missed). You'd be creating a prequel that isn't so much a prequel, as another game set in the same universe, only in another part of the country. The number of references to FO1 & FO2 in that case is very low, if not none at all.

DarkUnderlord wrote: I think there's enough room to get around that. If you have a prequel, you can set it in an area away from FO1 & FO2. I mean, we only know what happened in California. We've got no idea about the rest of the United States.

He's not talking about that, is he? He's talking about playing the Vault Dweller from Fallout and even running in to the Enclave, from Fallout 2.

Saint_Proverbius wrote: He's not talking about that, is he? He's talking about playing the Vault Dweller from Fallout and even running in to the Enclave, from Fallout 2.

Oh... Well in that context....

BAD IDEA!! BAD IDEA!!!
[size=0]I wonder if I'll be cited for size fuction abuse?[/size]

There needs to be some cataclysm as such effictively bum raping the area of FO2 back to low civ level that it should be.

There were some good ideas thrown around on V13, the most novel of witch were the AIs that caused the war still alive and kicking, or preventing a doomsday device from going off.

Mr Carrot wrote:There needs to be some cataclysm as such effictively bum raping the area of FO2 back to low civ level that it should be.

My idea of this was pretty simple: war between the Shi and the NCR.

Mr Carrot wrote:...preventing a doomsday device from going off.

I would say that it would be better to avoid this sort of thing. The problem with it is that you're basically out to save the world, or at least end up doing it. In FO1 the threat presented by the Master is essentially a regional one, at least at the stage that the Vault Dweller took him on. In FO2, on the other hand, you set out looking for a high-tech briefcase, but end up saving Humanity from the Enclave's depredations, since the release of the FEV into the jetstream was supposed to effectively wipe the "mutants" from the face of the planet. Bigger and better than FO, right? Well, bigger yes, I don't know about better. If you escalate constantly you're looking at wearing the whole idea out by way of inflation. ("Oh...I'm out to save the world...again...*yawn*...")

Keeping the above in mind, I would say that a regional affair would be better. Also, keep the impact of the game limited to that region and under all circumstances do not let the outcome of the game pace the road to Wasteland becoming the Garden of Allah that FoT did! (That bit about the Calculator/Warrior reintroducing irrigation works...)

OTB

First, I would say that History is written by the victors. Obviously Tandy was quite taken with the Vault Dweller, the records could have been altered to tell the tale of knightly deeds the Vault Dweller accomplished and leaving out some of the more unscrupulous things.

Second, I would like to see FOIII take place after FOII. I think right now some of the towns are working real well, though I would also like to see a resurgance of some of the other towns from FOI like the Hub or Shady Sands.

Say, 50 years after FOII would be what I would like to see, I'll post my plot/FOIII ideas in another thread.

The problems with having things like a war between the Shi and NCR is that they'd have to take place in the same spot as Fallout 2. If it takes place in exactly the same spot, you're going to have to make a lot more "Right way" assumptions about how Fallout 2's quests were done than Fallout 2 did with Fallout.

Of course, like I said, the NCR Holodisk did this. That item should have gotten more thought than it did.

Saint_Proverbius wrote:The problems with having things like a war between the Shi and NCR is that they'd have to take place in the same spot as Fallout 2.

Not necessarily. The war between the Shi and the NCR could just be a plot device to knock the tech level down a peg or three. The NCR could, for instance, attempt to seize the synthetic fuel production facility that the Shi have and instead of capturing it, accidentally turn it into an inferno. (Pvt. Lester Lipschitz was given a verbal reprimand for this due to his careless use of a tobacco product and an open flame...posthumously.) A couple of incidents like that would do some serious damage to both sides.

I'm working under the assumption that the PC is to come from the same line as the Vault Dweller and Chosen One - AFAIK we still don't know where New Arroyo is - and that New Arroyo is located in/around San Fran and therefore reasonably close to the NCR. It could easily have become embroiled in this war and either been razed, or the area might have become unfriendly toward New Arroyo because they supported the wrong (i.e. loosing) faction in this war; the area could be unsuitable due to most of the game having been killed off during the war; etc., etc. To make a long story short, New Arroyo had to relocate to the east. It could even be unrelated to the war.

Saint_Proverbius wrote: If it takes place in exactly the same spot, you're going to have to make a lot more "Right way" assumptions about how Fallout 2's quests were done than Fallout 2 did with Fallout.

Yes, keeping it in the same area forces the designers to choose what outcome(s) occured in at least some of the towns. So it would be a good choice to relocate, although this does do in the continuity to a certain extent.

Saint_Proverbius wrote: Of course, like I said, the NCR Holodisk did this. That item should have gotten more thought than it did.

I have to agree w/grapedog here. If you want an historical example, there's tons and tons of them. Julius Caeser for Rome, George Washington for the US, Rodrigo "El Cid" Diaz for Spain, Charlemagne for both France and Germany, etc., etc. Most of these guys were political opportunists or even outright Total Rat Bastards, but they've had a nice, glossy coat of historical interpretation smeared on them for the sake of national unity, at least at one time or another. A lot of what we were treated to in FO2 info-wise can be written off as simple propaganda. The NCR claims to have 700,000 inhabitants? Sounds impressive. Are the locals going to go out and count heads? Probably not.

However, I do agree w/the point about the Vault Dweller having saved Tandi at all. While the Mil. Base had to be destroyed in order to finish the game, Tandi could be farted off w/out a second thought and all you'd do is piss off Aradesh and alter a localized ending. One thing I would like to add to that, though, is that saving Tandi doesn't necessarily constitute a "right" ending. One weakness of the FO universe's Karma/Rep system is that it discounts motive. It is unfortunately assumed that if you do X that you have Y motive, which is a moral travesty. I'm not sure how to fix this, but one thing I've thought of is having people's reaction tied more to what your Rep in a town/among factions is rather than a simple scale. In other words, rather than having Faction X in Location Y like you because your Karma is > 300 more attention could be paid to how your character has worked toward that faction's ends. For instance, no matter what your Karma is the Slavers in the NCR would likely have hated you if you had wiped out Metzger and his boys and done everything in your power to overthrow slavery in every form throughout the the Wasteland (e.g. freeing the VC Servants, had it been included). Sorry, but moral absolutism just rankles me. This approach would allow for more "shades of grey" playing, which is one of the things that I love about FO.

OTB

yeah, but karma should still play a part, especially in peoples first impression of you.

it could probably be balanced out or overcome by a high enough charisma (being able to manipulate peoples perceptions of yourself), but otherwise, theres much to be said for the argument that someone who just butchered a small settlement for no particular reason, even if there were no survivors, would probably show it.

again, someone with a high charisma would probably be able to overcome that of course.

but I agree that what people or organizations have seen of you personally should take precedence. if you secure a source of water for a dying farm community, they wont CARE if you get a crazed, blood thirsty, look in your eye whenever you hold your gatling laser

Ok, How about a total change of setting. The East Coast, like Philly or NYC. You are a vault dweller (born in the vault). Your vault opens 20 years after FO2, because the East was nuked so many times (like 100) and the rad levels were still very high (which forced it to stay closed for like 200 years, [it was the best vault ever]). And you would be the only one who makes it out alive, leaving you by yourself, alone, to struggle through the ruined wastes of NYC, Philly, Bmore, Boston, and eventually Washington DC, (maybe to stop a Doomsday device [maybe in the Pentagon]) I'd just like to see Fallout 3. I just came up with an even better idea but am too tired to type it, maybe later.

TheGreatTriscuit wrote:yeah, but karma should still play a part, especially in peoples first impression of you.

Maybe the effect of overall Karma/Rep should be limited to extremes. "I know he just helped us out in a big way...I still don't like that him though. He's a Total Rat Bastard!"

TheGreatTriscuit wrote:...[T]hey wont CARE if you get a crazed, blood thirsty, look in your eye whenever you hold your gatling laser

Either that, or - and this is a very human thing to do - they'd overlook it.

OTB

I'll side step karma, even though I know it'll always be there. A shadow following, even in the darkest night.

Can't remember which forum I suggested the Appalachian Range and west to maybe beyond the Mississippi to the great Praire silos in the vast grasslands.

If a dominate weather front came out of the Gulf, then the worst of the pounding of the Eastern Establishment would fallout into the Atlantic. The rains would drop Mid West fall out to ground, but maybe the levels would be randomized and locally tolerable.

Lot of natural caves, caverns and more in this area. Limestome formations are naturally tunneled by eons of underground water movement. The Mammoth Caverns are huge, lot of natural shelter in the Appalachians. Lot of government facilities underground courtesy of the Buearu of Mines. Started in the '50's, and supported a doubling and tripling of the roads and power grids. Several leased fascilities even now in Pennsylvannia and salt caves in Kansas. If want the Atlantic, then consider the real plan to evacuate Washington D.C. V.I.P.'s to lead lined jeep carriers. Consider a "pirate" fleet of congressional descendants carrying on the family business of looting America.

Energy always a problem, so might have to be liberal with fusion powered
carriers.

Might be liberal with coal too. Consider the survival of the deep miners, and their discovery of unknown reserves of "Blue Coal".
Consider a subplot of weaving together the disperant factions to build a rudimentry industrial base with coal and the water power in the Tennesse Valley.

4too