Noob question regarding F2's screwed up ammo-profile

nexus · Post by **nexus** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:31 pm

Hello everybody
Ok so I'm not really a Noob - I've been tagging along the sideline of your excellent forum for some time now but I just recently registered.

I've been playing the Fallout series for some time now and I simply love the games they are without comparison esspecially F2 (personal preference). But it has some flaws that always annoyed me namely the ammo-profile (and the bozar being to powerfull - but then again it's due to the ammo).

First of I would like you explain to me how the modefiers for ammo work (or was suppose to work) - I can't figure it out.
In the exsamble given in the F2 manual it describes the DT & DR but not now the ammo modifiers (AM) afflict the result (I don't think they even thought about it themselfes +the stats for the leatherarmor is incorrect - DT = 4 DR = 20% should have been DT = 2 DR = 25%).
offcourse I have an idea of how the AM work but unless you can get someone to verify it you can't really be certain can you!!??
OK so this how i see it
AC modifier: This one is easy, this is negative modifier witch is substracted form the targets AC
DR (damage resistance): here's the problem, in my opinion they swapped the values for AP/FMJ and JHP making the AP utterly useless and JHP ridiculously powerful - but as I said I don't really know for sure just a notion
Damage modifier: I'm a little uncertain here but it's a multiplier factor that's for sure. But whether it's the initial damage done by the weapon or the final calculatet score ( - DT - DR = final score) i do not know.

I've tried to apply the >>TeamX ammo patch 41<< but I'm not sure if it really did anything to correct the stats - actually I kindda doubt it.

I've also been tinkering a little with the FIC but I seem to remember reading somewhere that it couldn't handle negative offsets - how does that correspond

Finally I would like suggestions if my assumptions 'bout the ammo stuff are correct - I mean it would seriously alter the game as a lot of people in the game carries AP ammo and thus would be a hole lot more dangerous (and the bozar ammo would be toned down making it a less powerfull weapon witch again would balance the game some more)

Phew!! - hope you are still with me :wink:
Anyways - cheers from Denmark

PS: sorry for any typoes

Strap · Post by **Strap** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:51 am

the ammo is pretty wierd... they should have made AP ammo less common, and kept the 2/1 mod, and had the -xx% DR in place, so it would actually be worth using. the only way i kill things with the AP ammo is when you get a critical that "bypasses" the targets armor. JHP is pretty crappy against enclave troops, it adds so much to their DR...

i dont really know anymore... someone else elaborate

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:57 am

The DR and AC modifiers seem all right to me. It's the dmg mod that's screwy. The ammo's dmg mod is basically what fraction of the weapon damage is applied to the target. If you're using a 10mm pistol chambered with JHP rounds, which have a dmg mod of 2/1, then you'll be doing two times the base weapon damage (5-12 in this case), or 10-24. The tradeoff with JHP is supposed to be the positive DR mod, in this case +25. AP rounds have a negative DR mod, but they also have a dmg mod of 1/2, and that's just terrible.

So, for example - if you take your JHP-loaded gun and shoot a mobster with 25% base DR, then you're hitting him for 10-24 at 50% actual DR, or 5-12. But if you use your AP-loaded gun, you'd be hitting him for 2-6 (!) at 0% DR. Guh.

There's also the fact that the game doesn't calculate negative DR. If you have a 14mm pistol loaded with 14mm AP, which has a -50% DR mod and the usual 1/2 dmg mod, then when you shoot that mobster, it doesn't calculate his DR as -25% - it calculates it at 0%. Ripoff.

I modded AP ammo to have a dmg mod of 1/1. It's basically FMJ now, and sort of overpowered, but at least it's useful I guess.

nexus · Post by **nexus** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:08 pm

Thanks for the $0,0x's

At nma-fallout they have a >>TeamX ammo patch<< (41 - or something), have any of you tried to apply it to see if it works??

quote
>>There's also the fact that the game doesn't calculate negative DR.<<
BLAST!!! this is a fact or what - is there no way around this problem?? I mean you can have negative modifiers in the game (check black hole, klint the generous - carry weight -9999 seems work fine)

ideally if the game can calculate 1/1 <-> 2/1 <-> 1/2 <-> 3/2 - it should also be able to calculate for example 4/5 - you see what I'm getting at instead of 1/1 you could try f.ex. 3/4 or 4/5.

1/2 < 3/4 < 4/5 <1/1 < 3/2 < 2/1 - you could make aprox any dmg. mod with fractions - that is if it's possible

Now, I have to be careful not to overhype myself. But the way I see it you don't really need the DR mod, you could do the math with fractions instead, no!?
does the game always round down?? what if you have 3,75??

I'm also curious about what AC damage mod does - seemingly this is a modifier not listed in the in-game discription.

Red · Post by **Red** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 4:53 am

The values are not fractions nor floats, so you can't have 3.75.

Strap · Post by **Strap** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 5:06 am

ac probubly lowers thier Armor class... iirc that would make them easyer to hit, and you might do more damage (if AC is related to DR in any way)