Ghouls In The Fallout World

-=Felix=- · Post by **-=Felix=-** » Sun May 04, 2003 1:57 pm

Anyone notice the ghouls in BOS look like pyramid head from Silent Hill 2?

Just a thought, next comes Silent Fallout! =PP

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Sun May 04, 2003 3:35 pm

did you guys see the concept art for the ghoul character wielding some BFG? Looks pretty ridiculous.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Sun May 04, 2003 4:09 pm

Killzig wrote:did you guys see the concept art for the ghoul character wielding some BFG? Looks pretty ridiculous.

yea, fuckin' ridiculous. As I recall, in FOT ghouls couldn't even use big guns... and what about those minimum strength rules? Ghouls would have a hell of a hard time hitting anything.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Sun May 04, 2003 5:09 pm

I saw a screenshot, where after succesfully completing a quest to rob the bank of Junkery-tinkery Town, you're awarded by Dismo and guess what you get... A full platemail - the ultimate armor in FOBOS! It was cool, with all the spikes on the shoulders and stuff... You know. And it even matches the color of your broadsword! Hooray Chugga! Hooray FOBOS!

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Mon May 05, 2003 1:41 am

atoga wrote:yea, fuckin' ridiculous. As I recall, in FOT ghouls couldn't even use big guns... and what about those minimum strength rules? Ghouls would have a hell of a hard time hitting anything.

Ghouls can use Big Guns in FoT. Their sprite allows it, and the counters in Fallout: Warfare also feature Big Gun armed Ghouls.

However, like you said, "what about those minimum strength rules". In the FO RPGs you always have the option to use a weapon that you are not actually strong enough to use. You simply accrue a penalty of 20% for every point your ST is lower than the Min ST. (This is good. RPGs should allow you the choice to do something and accrue a penalty for it rather than simply disallowing it.)

However, having hard-coded Min ST rules like FoT does invariably encourages munchkinism/power-gaming/roll-playing for users of the weaker races. Ghouls' maximum ST is 6 and all Big Guns have a Min ST requirement of 6 or more and most of the rifles are set at 5. Therefore if you want a viable Ghoul character you are basically forced to have a Ghoul at least approaching the top end of the spectrum for ST, rather than setting up a believable Ghoul who had to dump SPs into the appropriate weapon skills to overcome his physical weakness.

OTB

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Mon May 05, 2003 1:43 am

I suppose so. Ghouls are still cooler with melee weapons, rifles/shotguns, or nothing at all (being the brains of the group). These big guns and giant magical swords are just lame.

MF · Post by MF » Mon May 05, 2003 10:34 am

No, ghouls are cooler as cripple losers and outcasts of society. Their mental capacity doesn't seem any better than that of humans. They are simply inferior. Their only boon is radiation resistance. They should have never been 'player balanced' in FoT.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Mon May 05, 2003 4:15 pm

Ghouls are smarter than humans and live five times longer, that's enough of good sides for me! And no, these aren't stuff that's been figured out in FoT, I'm talking about FO1 and 2 here.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Mon May 05, 2003 9:25 pm

I was talking about ghouls in a combat situation. I agree that ghouls are cool as losers, psychos, and derelects though. They are a lot smarter than humans (think about all those ghoul scientists you see) and also more perceptive (since they tend to go around at night, at least in FO1). I also like the higher luck than humans thing, as if they weren't very lucky they probably could not survive all the radiation they've been exposed to.

NachoMonkey · Post by **NachoMonkey** » Mon May 26, 2003 11:14 am

the only possible way a ghoul could be superior to a human would be endurance, rad resistance, luck,and maybe poison resistance im guessing everything but intelligence, and to a lesser extent perception, would be at a penalty too

, im doubting you would have a lot of strong charming agile ghouls out there

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Mon May 26, 2003 9:28 pm

NachoMonkey wrote:the only possible way a ghoul could be superior to a human would be endurance, rad resistance, luck,and maybe poison resistance im guessing everything but intelligence, and to a lesser extent perception, would be at a penalty too , im doubting you would have a lot of strong charming agile ghouls out there

ghouls are of same EN, less ST and AG, slightly less CH, slightly higher IN, and *much* higher PE and LK than humans. Plus they have moderate night vision (ie. a few levels of the perk), a bonus to RR and PR, and can take cool perks/traits.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Mon May 26, 2003 9:31 pm

No, that's how Fo:T handle ghouls...

Why the fuck should ghouls be more intellegent and/or perceptive then humans? It's just game balancing issues, which should be easily resolved if you can only play a human.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Mon May 26, 2003 9:37 pm

read earlier post:

I was talking about ghouls in a combat situation. I agree that ghouls are cool as losers, psychos, and derelects though. They are a lot smarter than humans (think about all those ghoul scientists you see) and also more perceptive (since they tend to go around at night, at least in FO1). I also like the higher luck than humans thing, as if they weren't very lucky they probably could not survive all the radiation they've been exposed to.

so there. Ghouls are great innovators, and they're incredibly perceptive.. why else would they hang around at night?

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Tue May 27, 2003 2:05 am

because there outcasts and losers and stuff

I just think of ghouls as dorky zombies who don't have high endurance, perception or intelligence (radiation destroys cells, so I'm guessing hitting a ghoul with a sledgehammer would probably go through him like a wet paper bag (lewl good anonalyog) also they are probably senile after living for 200 years or whatever) but high resistences.

As the player (hopefully) won't be playing a ghoul in fo3, balancing issues won't be needed.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Tue May 27, 2003 2:43 am

wtf, just look at Harold for an example, he's a smart cookie. Ghouls are smart and balanced too, none of that ugly dumb weak zombie bullshit.

SuperH · Post by **SuperH** » Tue May 27, 2003 2:54 am

I dunno, I didn't find them particularly weak in FO1. First time through the Necropolis, I fought everybody off. They can take a lot more than a sledgehammer, they can take (sometimes) multiple combat shotgun shells. Freaking pains in the ass. If they are ripped up like a wet paper bag, it doesn't matter, because they keep going. Maybe that's what makes them ghouls, a hella high endurance. They can take rads and keep going, and they can also take a beating and keep going. Kinda like real zombies, sure they fall apart easy, but you can't kill them unless you get them in the face.
By real i mean movie zombies, hopefully not zombies walking down the street

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Tue May 27, 2003 3:26 am

atoga wrote:wtf, just look at Harold for an example, he's a smart cookie. Ghouls are smart and balanced too, none of that ugly dumb weak zombie bullshit.

Is Harold a ghoul?

I was thinking of Broken Hills, then I remembered it doesn't make any sense. How can you have tough zombies like fo1, but also intelligent and scientific like fo2 :yuck: 8) :shock:

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Tue May 27, 2003 7:56 am

Pyro is right.

Look, don't look at FO2 for how the world handels things, because it was kinda fucked up...

Now, which ghouls scientics are you talking about? Why would they be intellegent?

Maybe Because the radiation made them smarter? Erghh... I don't think so.

Maybe because nobody liked them so they just read books all the time, huik? Nope.

And more preceptive then humans because they hang out at night? That's stupid.
If anything they should be less preceptive due to the fact their forheads are oozing down into their eyes.

NachoMonkey · Post by **NachoMonkey** » Tue May 27, 2003 10:14 am

Megatron wrote:
atoga wrote:wtf, just look at Harold for an example, he's a smart cookie. Ghouls are smart and balanced too, none of that ugly dumb weak zombie bullshit.
Is Harold a ghoul?

I was thinking of Broken Hills, then I remembered it doesn't make any sense. How can you have tough zombies like fo1, but also intelligent and scientific like fo2 :yuck: 8) :shock:

exactly, 1.) harold isnt a ghoul

2.) harold isnt really smart as such, hes wise, and wisdom comes with being around as long as harold has been around

Also, to justify why i gave ghouls a high endurance was , well theyre doesnt seem to be a whole lot left of them, so a few extra bullet holes couldnt possibly harm them anymore then they already are,..... thats not to say that a close burst fire from an smg wouldnt drop them quicker then a 2 bit hooker..... but yeah, theyve endured that long and survived so i guess there has to be some endurance in there somewhere

Fang_Teng · Post by **Fang_Teng** » Tue May 27, 2003 10:18 am

I think they might be considered smarter due to their long lifespans and the possibility that they might remember former skills and memories their human forms possessed (Talius).