Fallout Enforcer booed by PC Gamer

Smiley · Post by **Smiley** » Tue May 06, 2003 4:06 pm

Saint_Proverbius wrote:I bought Baldur's Gate expecting it to be similar to Fallout as well. I was fairly horrified by how limited and scaled back the design of Baldur's Gate was compared to Fallout. Just the fact that any quest you took in BG means that something has to be murdered by the player's party was enough to turn me off on the mechanics. Fallout was so, so much more than Baldur's Gate.

I think comparing them with eachother is unfair, since PnP'ers like me,
who love the Forgotten Realms, universe and the classic D&D,
love Baldur's Gate and its system, the system which I've played for quite few years now.

Fallout, is my favorite future/post-nuclear game, and liked the SPECIAL
system which enabled you to be a unique character, but sometimes
I prefer to be a Cleric, or to specifically be a sorcerer, whereas
the fallout character system might seem a bit loose.

Red · Post by **Red** » Tue May 06, 2003 9:37 pm

I enjoyed the forgotten realms games from SSI even though you eventually grow tired of them (I mean, they could have done more then jsut add colour to their damn engine after as many games...)

I don't like any of the PnP d&d games thoughI totally lost interest in d&d 2nd Ed and never kept up with the since, so I can't say anything about those after that.

In any case, the point is I didn't like BG. For various reasons, including the one mentioned by SP. One I could add is the fact the engine sucks - being a programmer - it brought nothing new to computer gaming except bundles of CD which several other companies were already quite good at doing

As for JA3, indeed, Sir-Tech dropped the whole gaming bit once the latest Wizardry was released and recycled into an (IMO crappy) web desgin company.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Tue May 06, 2003 10:21 pm

axelgreese wrote:
atoga wrote:Yar. I didn't think everybody else liked Torment, it still had its numerous flaws. Though the story was amazing.
I'd like to finsh it one day, but I absolutly hate the IE engine.

yea it sucks doesn't it? The ending is kinda thrown together too, after you leave Sigil there's not much detail. Still, in the end, it's hella fulfilling.

Red wrote:I don't like any of the PnP d&d games thoughI totally lost interest in d&d 2nd Ed and never kept up with the since, so I can't say anything about those after that.

Yeah, same, DND gets boring after 1-2 years :/ I hear Wizards of the Coast is coming out with a minorly tweaked 'DND 3.5 edition' or something now. Damn they're desperate for money. I still play PNP games though, mostly Fallout PNP, Shadowrun, Call of Cthulhu, and the human occupied landfill.

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Tue May 06, 2003 10:28 pm

Smiley wrote: I think comparing them with eachother is unfair, since PnP'ers like me,
who love the Forgotten Realms, universe and the classic D&D,
love Baldur's Gate and its system, the system which I've played for quite few years now.

Funny, I thought that Baldur's Gate did an incredible mess of the D&D rules so it fit into their engine.

If you want to be a cleric there's quite a lot better, improved in implementation, in other games that follow that clichÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â©.

You're right in how it is unfair to compare them, since Fallout does a much better job in capturing a P&P feel.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Tue May 06, 2003 10:35 pm

BG captured simple DND 2 rules in full, though I agree Fallout had a more PNP feel, seeing as how the crew ended up stealing a lot from GURPS and wrote the rest themselves.
BG was terrible. All the sidequests were like, "[Insert half-witty explanation] so please go [find/kill] this [insert object's/monster's name], KTHXBYE."

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Tue May 06, 2003 10:55 pm

Bullshit, atoga. About half the rules were either missing or skullfucked in BG. The various IE games are NOT accurate representations of any PnP D&D game, past or present. And beyond simply raping the ruleset, the whole game suffers from awful design, both in terms of linearity and total lack of balance ("Oh, another +5 sword of destruction? Ho hum. Toss it in the sack."). BG stinked for a variety of reasons, none of which are D&D.

And Wizards is releasing D&D 3.5 this summer, a total revision of 3E. It is pretty lame, since if there were problems with 3E, they ought to provide the fixes to those who already bought the books free of charge.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Tue May 06, 2003 11:41 pm

Actually, it fully incorporated basic DND rules (well, live actioned them), just there weren't any noncombat rules for proficiencies and such since they'd have no bearing on the game anyway. There were no rules discrepancies, beyond the live action part (which really wasn't that much of a difference).
I'm not arguing that the game isn't total shit, however.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Wed May 07, 2003 1:05 am

The instant you put D&D in real time, the rules go out the window. Furthermore, plenty of spells has their effects changed to fit into the IE, like Clairvoyance or Identify. And don't get me started on the hollow mockery of the Deck of Many Things they put in ToB. When an artifact of ridiculous (and hilarious!) power takes away some of your Wisdom, you do not restore it with mere third-level spells like Remove Curse.

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Wed May 07, 2003 1:34 am

Smiley wrote:I think comparing them with eachother is unfair, since PnP'ers like me, who love the Forgotten Realms, universe and the classic D&D, love Baldur's Gate and its system, the system which I've played for quite few years now.

It has fuck all to do with the system, it has to do with the mechanics of the game and how shallow they are. Even in D&D, not everything has to end with killing a foozle. Any idiot can make a CRPG where everything is about making the foozles die, especially when the character system is handed to them. That's Cookie Cutter 101: The Basics of Cutting Cookies stuff right there.

Fallout, on the other hand, offered a hell of a lot more to what you could do and how you did it. That's why Fallout was better, not because of the system but because of how the world was handled.

In your case of the cleric, how much chance in Baldur's Gate were you afforded to be a scholarly cleric instead of a combat oriented one? None? That's right!

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Wed May 07, 2003 2:05 am

Spazmo wrote:The instant you put D&D in real time, the rules go out the window. Furthermore, plenty of spells has their effects changed to fit into the IE, like Clairvoyance or Identify. And don't get me started on the hollow mockery of the Deck of Many Things they put in ToB. When an artifact of ridiculous (and hilarious!) power takes away some of your Wisdom, you do not restore it with mere third-level spells like Remove Curse.

Yea, the spell changin was pretty lame. All in the interest of power gaming.

I guess Baldur's Gate is to DND 2e as Fallout Tactics is to Fallout?

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Wed May 07, 2003 8:05 am

I had D&D Dragon simulator. That game kicked ass.
I think it was called Dragon Something, Maybe Dragon Lance.

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Wed May 07, 2003 11:27 am

Dan wrote:I had D&D Dragon simulator. That game kicked ass.
I think it was called Dragon Something, Maybe Dragon Lance.

Dragon Strike, one of the more fun DragonLance games around. Like a lot of other SSI games, I got that one soon after or when it was released.

Sarkus · Post by **Sarkus** » Sat May 10, 2003 7:20 am

Getting back to original topic of this thread, am I the only one who is not quite clear as to what the PC Gamer guy is criticizing? You all seem to assume he's criticizing the concept of FOBOS, but if you read the last sentence, I think you could make a case that his criticism is that it is a "slap in to face to PC gamers"; in other words he's just mad it's a console only title.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sun May 11, 2003 10:14 am

Rosh wrote:
Dan wrote:I had D&D Dragon simulator. That game kicked ass.
I think it was called Dragon Something, Maybe Dragon Lance.
Dragon Strike, one of the more fun DragonLance games around. Like a lot of other SSI games, I got that one soon after or when it was released.

Yeah, that was it... I was small when it came out, but my brother bought it... He bought a lot of those gold boxes. That game is really fun.

Silver Dragon 4 evar.

First Force · Post by **First Force** » Fri May 23, 2003 11:15 pm

yeah them bitches know it now, that they cant market this crap.
UNITY MAKES ONE!!!!

Sublime Cow · Post by **Sublime Cow** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:06 pm

Fantastic idea, guys, let's boycott this game, and not let the company get any money whatsoever! What a great idea! So then, when they run out of money, they can close their doors and never make another fallout ever again!!

God, there are other games out there, you know. Go outside, too, or something.

BlackDog · Post by **BlackDog** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:17 pm

Sublime Cow wrote:Fantastic idea, guys, let's boycott this game, and not let the company get any money whatsoever! What a great idea! So then, when they run out of money, they can close their doors and never make another fallout ever again!!

Actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea, since they aren't heeding the cries of potential customers to their product. I'd definitly buy it if they got rid of the brotherhood of steel from the name and such.

Some other company would just get the rights to the franchise anyways if interplay conked.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:34 pm

Sublime Cow wrote:Fantastic idea, guys, let's boycott this game, and not let the company get any money whatsoever! What a great idea! So then, when they run out of money, they can close their doors and never make another fallout ever again!!

That's kind of the goal of the entire DAC backlash to FOBOS? If you'd done your homework you'd realize that. By killing IPLY, the Fallout name won't be ruined again. Maybe a better company (hint TROIKA) might even take a stab at Fallout 3?

Sublime Cow wrote:Go outside, too, or something.

I do.

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:21 am

Sublime Cow wrote:Fantastic idea, guys, let's boycott this game, and not let the company get any money whatsoever! What a great idea! So then, when they run out of money, they can close their doors and never make another fallout ever again!!

Here's a better idea.. Let's all buy the game, so Interplay will continue spitting up that kind of shallow drivel because they think that type of game sells well. Oh, wait, that's not a better idea, that's just fucking stupid!

God, there are other games out there, you know. Go outside, too, or something.

GET A LIEF! LEWL!

Dark Sorrow · Post by **Dark Sorrow** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:18 pm

I'm sure i'll be sentenced into the pits of hell for saying this but...

*Deep breath*

I liked Baldurs Gate...

Please forgive me Lord....