setting up elevators? how?

[ColJack]

There can be various ways to solve this.
Lifts with voice interface, as you suggest, and lift, reacting on keycards (script checks which keykard used on lift).
Maybe I try do this after some research.

I though about the keycard lift, but you would need to add new items for the keycards.. you can't really just use the red, blue and yellow cards as then any red, blue or yellow card you hapen to have found on your travels will work the lift, meaning you don't have to do that quest or search that map to get the card.. then there is the problem with the user dropping the card somewhere and having to go back for it just to get the lift to work..
there is also the hassle of having to do a "use from inventory" and searching through your inventory to find the red keycard.. and so on..

The talking lift is a viable solution for places that are suitably high tech and in working order.. but not where the place is old and decrepid ( for example Vault 15, or the Mariposa Military Base.. )

There is the problem of using characters with low inteligence though for the talking lifts..
"Thank you for using Lift-Co.. What floor please?".. "URGHHH!!!!"... "I'm sorry, that floor is not currently available. Please select another floor."... "Duhhhh!!!".. and so on..

[TryKos]

Keycards are plain solution, and, you absolutely right, they are has drawbacks. Biggest of them is requirement to make as many cards as many levels of new elevators we have. (I think I know some funky workarounds but I dont checked if they work yet). And we can prevent dropping or stealing them by checking from obj_dude script (is_dropping_proc called when player drops something, for example, preventing from dropping GECK works like that).

Currently I working on ElevPack, which includes TryKos-Tec elevator voice interface system 8) It has some drawbacks (no more than 6 unique custom elevators on map (all 3 elevations), no more then 5 levels on elevator, using of particular scenery item for interface and some shaman dances around map global variables needed from modder). Most of them are not too much, and other are results of GENERIC nature of script. I hope I finish it in one or 2 days and put somewhere for testing.

And I have an question - is it really need to make different elevator dialogs for different Intellect charcters? I know, it cool and funky, but it really pain in ass script and write msg file for 6 elevs x 5 levels each x 3 (or 2) intellect ranges. If you say so - Ill try to make this feature, but it will be hard (I wrote most part of dialog code and msg file already.)
I think even dumbest charcter can say "Level 1" if voice system explain it ro him loud and clear 8)

[Temaperacl]

you don't mind if I icq you if needed do you??

Not at all- feel free to. I'm not on for terribly long each day, so.. I will reply to messages that arrive while I am offline, however.

[ColJack]

i thought that it was built in to the dialogue system?? maybe not then.. if you can have dialogue responses not dependent on intelect..

The problem with the card elevator, if you prevent the player from dropping any card he has then his inventory will soon get cluttered up.. imagine, a lift has 3 levels, that's 3 cards to carry.. then if there are 2 lifts to a location, that's 6 cards.. and if there were 5 locations per game then the number of cards gets big quite fast..

the talking lift i was thinking along the lines of a generic central code which accepts variables set by the map script.. like setting the global variable named L_destination1 to local variable dest1 which would be a map number. L_elevation1 to local l_elev1 and so on..


i'm not a coder so i can't really exlain it as well as i would like..

surely there is a procedure to send the player to a different location..as the result of a dialogue option??
it was used with Torr to send you to the "bug men" map...

so it would just be a glorified one of those..

[TryKos]

Yeah, check of Intellect built in into dialogue system. But all messages for various Intellect ranges you must write by youself. Im already has 6x5 = 30 message strings for voice level choises (like "Say "Level 1" please").
And if we will check Intellect for Hi/normal/dumb, 30 will multiply on 3 ! + maybe strings of reactions on player choices.

So I ask you - does it really need to do? If people says - "Do It" - I will do it.

And about map variables and so on - I writing exactly what you say. You place Elevator objects on map, bind one _generic_ script to everyone of them, set map variables to destination points and you have an working elevator here!

[ColJack]

well done that man..
and no, you don't have to have dumb / average / smart replies.. just "Level one" and so on..
( although it would be fun if you could talk a lift into giving you access to a restricted area without having a security card... just a passing thought.. )

[Red]

-1 = int must be lower then 1
1 = int must be greater then 1
0 = no int requirement

No need to use any int level for funky dialogs and shit.

[Stevie D]

'Kin 'ell... page two of this thread is just plain terrifying!

ColJ, got a few few Qs about your tutorial dude. Hoping some of the other guys will be able to help out with one or two, too. And Christ - these Qs are seriously n00b compared to the stuff that's been written in here so far.

* Where in the FO2 files are the elevators hardcoded? I’m guessing from one of Red’s earlier posts that it’s in Fallout.exe.

* ‘Map indexes’ (the numbers on ColJ's page here) are the ‘ID’ number of the map, not a 'grid-reference' to a specific area on the map?

* What are the *.gam files in the …\Fallout2\data\maps?

* ColJ, would you mind if I do HTML version of the Elevator Type List on this site? I'm pretty sure HTML is enabled on DaC. Not that I imagine I'll be able to find the time, but it might be an idea to have a backup. A 'mirror', if you like.

* When you suggest changing the name of the level in maps.txt as an alternative, is that the name on the line map_name=??? (second one down in each entry).

* What’s different about the elevstub.frm file in your site’s download section from the one in the …\Fallout2\data\Art\scenery folder?

Thanks,

n00b

[Guest]

Maybe I can answer on some of this questions.

* Where in the FO2 files are the elevators hardcoded?

Yeah, in Fallout2.exe.

* ?Map indexes? (the numbers on ColJ's page here) are the ?ID? number of the map, not a 'grid-reference' to a specific area on the map?

Im not sure, that I get you right, but map index=map ID, unique map number, corresponding with mapname through Data\maps.txt file. There are records like that:
[Map 150] <----------------Map ID (Map Index)
lookup_name=Bess Dead
map_name=rndbess <----------- Map file name
music=07desert
saved=No

So map with index 150 has mapfile "rndbess.map".

* What are the *.gam files in the ?\Fallout2\data\maps?

This is a Map Global Variables (MVAR) definition files. MVAR's are like Global Variables (GVAR's) (which are stored in file \Fallout2\data\vault13.gam), but only for maps. MVAR's are global not for all game, but only for corresponding map. GAM files define how much MVAR's has map, and their values by default.
They are can be used from all scripts exist on this map, and their values are saves when you make a "save game".

* What?s different about the elevstub.frm file in your site?s download section from the one in the ?\Fallout2\data\Art\scenery folder?

Original elevstub.frm file is fully transparent, so Elevator Stub object can be invisible in the game. It is okay when you play, but when you edit map its very hard to find insidible object, if you dont know exactly, where are it placed. ColJack elevstub.frm has a picture of hex inside of it, and it visible in editor.

[ColJack]

1. exactly.. it's in the exe code.. and without getting our hands on the scouce code for the exe, we are limited to 24 elevators.. ( we can however hex edit the exe to alter the existing elevators, and their destinations.. it's in one of the threads somewhere.. )

2. right.. it's the map number that is assigned in maps.txt. ( good point about the destination tile number... you'd have to start your map with the elevator and work outwards... must research that.. )

3. huh? where do i mention .gam files???

4. not at all.. ( if it looks better than mine, i might even nick it.. )

5. yes.. put your map's name in place of the map named in the map_name= line..

6. the elevstub.frm in the data\art\scenery folder has no picture.. so you cannot select it.. i just made a frm to make it visible.. so you can select it to edit it.. ( it looks like a blocker hex but has elvstb written on it.)
any small frm will do, but i think mine is easier to see.. ( it does not turn invisible when you turn toggle block obj view off.. but in most cases it will be hidden behind a wall.... but just replace the original when you're done )

[TryKos]

LOL 8)
Me and ColJack wrote similar things simultaneously.

Damn, this forum timeouts are too small for my English typing speed. "Guest" one post above is me.

[Stevie D]

3. huh? where do i mention .gam files???

Oh, just idle curiosity on my part, dude. They were in there when I was looking at the other map files.

4. not at all.. ( if it looks better than mine, i might even nick it.. )

lol, that's the spirit!

6. the elevstub.frm in the data\art\scenery folder has no picture.. so you cannot select it.. i just made a frm to make it visible.. so you can select it to edit it.. ( it looks like a blocker hex but has elvstb written on it.)
any small frm will do, but i think mine is easier to see.. ( it does not turn invisible when you turn toggle block obj view off.. but in most cases it will be hidden behind a wall.... but just replace the original when you're done )

Great! Got it.

Thanks for the input as well, 'Guest'. (Don't tell me... TryKos? ) I'll need to sleep on this mofo before I tackle it any further, though.

[ColJack]

now that you've mentioned it, i think you just rendered the elevators ( as they are ) more or less useless.. if ( and i think they are ) the destination hex is hard coded too, then you'll need to build your map so that you will start outside the elevator when you "arrive" on the map form using an elevator..

( damn you.. why'd you have to go and say that...??)

( you think we could talk the makers into patching the exe to use an external elevator file..???)

[TryKos]

Looks like without massive exe tweaking hardcoded elevators are pretty useless for modding We cant use custom art for panels and cant set destination place exactly. Maybe our EXE explorers can do something with that.

Anyway, Voice Elevators are at 60%.

[Red]

Imho the most elegant way to readd them (other then figureing out how addbutton and all those script elements work) is the suggested dialog...
This way nothing really special needs to be done to the EXE and it makes seperate mods easyer to work together (as if there weren't enough problems already).

[Stevie D]

now that you've mentioned it, i think you just rendered the elevators ( as they are ) more or less useless.. if ( and i think they are ) the destination hex is hard coded too, then you'll need to build your map so that you will start outside the elevator when you "arrive" on the map form using an elevator..

OK, dude. If I'm not mistaken, that means the elevator tutorial needs to have some serious, fundamental chages made to it to base it on voice-activation instead? Or something?

I'll move onto something else until you gents have this one sorted out.

I was thinking about this last night and it occured to me that although this problem is very restrictive, with a bit of cunning, we could work round it. So the elevators are static, with static destinations, right? That ain't too bad if you're building a Vault, since they're all built the same way anyway. I mean, you could tweak the layout of the Vault itself to take in modifications made post-war, or Vault-Tec's experimental tweaks, but the elevator shaft would still be in the same place.

So my train of thought went on - you'd only be able to make so many Vaults because there are only so many in FO2 - the one in Vault City, Vault 'deathclaw' 13 and Vault 'Raiders' 15. Have I missed any? Prolly. But anyway. So I thought, 'well, a good storyteller could blag it'. Maybe the elevator shaft in his Vault had broken and been replaced by a stair-case. Or a ladder.

Well, that's enough rambling. IMHO, this ain't fatal, is all I wanted to say.

( you think we could talk the makers into patching the exe to use an external elevator file..???)

I doubt there's anyone left at IPlay who even knows they've got legal dibs on Fallout.exe per se. Having said that, given the tension between IPlay and the fansites at the moment, I doubt Kreegle and Killzig would be too happy hosting potentially illegal mods if it meant giving Chucky C and the Laughter Gang a chance to shut DaC down.

I'd like to have a crack at trying to sweet-talk IPlay into giving us (or everyone) a waiver letting us HaX0r Fallout.exe crapless. If I knew where to apply the pressure and what with, I'd do it.

[Red]

Personally I don't see them as "talking elevators", I see them in the same way you interect with the "advertizment panels" when you enter towns, and how you interact with computers...

Simple instructions:
[Select button to press]
- Alarm
- 1
- 2
- 3
- more butons...

Funny stuff can be worked into elevator interactions (like the alarm in my example) too.

[Note: Personally I like to keep exe patches is few as possible, and I keep taking such a point of view as much as I can]

[ColJack]

OK, dude. If I'm not mistaken, that means the elevator tutorial needs to have some serious, fundamental chages made to it to base it on voice-activation instead? Or something?

I'll move onto something else until you gents have this one sorted out.

no need to wait.. the table can be edited later.. it's ok as it is.. it just need the destination hex numbers put in.. ( and that's hard since some maps are blank and when you exit game mode you get put back into your map, not the one you were just sent to.. so you'd have to take a picture, and then manually match up where you were standing on the map you got sent to. ) ( or troll through the exe and do the hexedecimal to decimal conversions... )

So my train of thought went on - you'd only be able to make so many Vaults because there are only so many in FO2 - the one in Vault City, Vault 'deathclaw' 13 and Vault 'Raiders' 15. Have I missed any?

there is v13, v15, v-city, and believe it or not.. NCR ( there is a lift type that sends you to all 3 levels there since it's index used to be the glow.. and the lift's still there.. as well as a few other "3 button lifts" but who's levels are split over 2 maps.. such as the military base, NCR again ( 3,4,6 lift.. lower part of the glow.. ), sierra depot, gecko ( old necropolis vault i think... ) and so on..

[ColJack]

Personally I don't see them as "talking elevators", I see them in the same way you interect with the "advertizment panels" when you enter towns, and how you interact with computers...

yeah but i like the idea of having a conversation with a lift... in a suitably high tec setting of course..

it would be funny to talk a lift into letting you have access to a floor if you didn't have a keycard for it..

eg:
lift - Thank you for using Lift-Tec. Please select a floor.
player - ooh, this one looks good.. Weapons research.
lift - I'm sorry, you do not have sufficient security clearance for that floor. Please select another floor..
player - Oh go on.. I won't touch anything, I promise.
lift - You do not have clearance.
player - I'll clean your buttons for you...
lift - Oh go on then, but don't tell anyone or they'll dismantle me..

[Jargo]

have done some tests on this "nontypical script procedures" and found that they work
Here you go: http://bug.ii.uj.edu.pl/fallout/acklint.int
This is a simple elevator (black window and four buttons) added to Klint script (like always ).
J can't get addbuttongfx procedure to work so there is no button graphics (but i think Abel know how it works )