the SKILL that remains *UNKNOWN*

[BloodGod]

guys... i've tried searching all over the net for this. maybe i was looking at the wrong places . . .

what is Combat Shooting for?
why is it so special that you can only get it at rg. center?
if this skill really works, wouldn't it "overlap" other fireArm skills?

do you think it's something the programmers initially put in, but was intended to be dropped upon actual release...but....was left behind in the game unintentionally? is it even properly coded?

[Temaperacl]

From a post on the Snake Squeezins list -

It has been a long time, and I may be wrong, but I
believe the combat mechanics were all based on the
saving roll idea. Weapons required Strength and
Dexterity to wield--mostly Dex. Various targets had
different level saving rolls set in order to hit them.
Example: Brass Jerk might require a level 2 S.R. to
hit, Scorpitron required a level 8 S.R. to hit.
Characters also had armor values. If you hit for 13
points of damage, but the character has 15 points of
armor, then no damage is done.

The saving roll system looks like this:

To hit: Level 1. Attribute rating + S.R. > 19
Level 2. " " " > 24
Level 3 " " " > 29

and so forth.

Skill with a weapon raised the attribute value. Thus
you have a Dex of 14 and a Clip Pistol skill of 2, and
you're shooting a large target needing only a level 1
S.R. to hit, you almost never miss. In that case
attribute = 16 and only by rolling a 1, 2 on the die
roll could you miss.

Of course, attributes tended to start down around 10
to 12, and people missed all the time in the early
game.

The same thing was used for skill and attribute
checks. Say you want to break down a door using your
Strength attribute. The door might be given a L3 S.R.
in order to break it down, i.e. attribute plus die
roll must equal 30 or more to succeed.

Die rolls built up experience points, and sufficent
experience points could be used to raise attribute
values or skill levels.

In haste,
Ken

Saving rolls are made by rolling 2D6. Doubles add and
roll over.

In this case, I would guess that the combat shooting is treated the same as weapons skills (although maybe only for guns). In other words, it would help you shoot better with all guns. This also would explain why you can't get it past character creation- if you could, then you'd be able to focus on that instead of putting the points into the individual weapon skills and it would be too powerful..

This is pretty much just guesswork, though- I don't think anyone has every stated with proof what good Combat Shooting is..

[BloodGod]

thanks. i think u're right

i'll create a new char, select only cmbt.shooting...then try out using a different variety of firearms. see if they increase the skill between groups.

your guess that the skill affects all projectile weapons in the game sort of came to me before too..., but i neither specifically tested it nor noticed. sounds logical though

btw. matrix2 opens today!

[BloodGod]

ok. it seems combat shooting cannot be raised in any way. i've tried using a variety of "shooting" weapons against many types of enemies. it won't raise past the level assigned during creation. i tested this on a pretty advanced character, so it can't be the 'maximum skill level=current character rank" ceiling.

or could it be that i was just very unlucky during testing....? If ANYONE out there has managed to raise this skill before, please let me know.

if it's true it can't be raised, then the skill remains static following creation, since you can't raise it at any library. then temaperacl is indeed right>it serves as a one time bonus for self-created rangers to ?all firearm skills?

i have noticed though, one point in cmbt. shooting is not equivalent to one point in another firearm skill. maybe it adds about 0.5/?0.2? skill point bonus per level to another existing firearm skill or something. . because, having tested with a cmbt. shooting skill of 4, with NO other skills, my test character (though a bit better than a total fresh ranger with no skills i would think) still could not shoot very straight. say i had an assault rifle skill of the same level, ie. 4, my performance in using that class of weapon would be much better.

now, only thing is, if the above holds true, . . . the maximum level ANY RANGER can ever attain in cmbt. shooting would be Level 4, requiring a starting IQ of 15. (ie. if no hacking is involved of course.)

15 skill points at creation for a one-time-only-general-shooting bonus. worth it?

[Temaperacl]

I've never had Combat shooting raised in any of my games either..

i have noticed though, one point in cmbt. shooting is not equivalent to one point in another firearm skill. maybe it adds about 0.5/?0.2? skill point bonus per level to another existing firearm skill or something. . because, having tested with a cmbt. shooting skill of 4, with NO other skills, my test character (though a bit better than a total fresh ranger with no skills i would think) still could not shoot very straight. say i had an assault rifle skill of the same level, ie. 4, my performance in using that class of weapon would be much better.

This may be the case- that you only get, say, half the impact from Combat shooting, or so. I haven't done alot of tests, but I think I'm going to create a set of characters as well, 2 with combat shooting, and 2 with the proper weapon skills, and compare how they work.

now, only thing is, if the above holds true, . . . the maximum level ANY RANGER can ever attain in cmbt. shooting would be Level 4, requiring a starting IQ of 15. (ie. if no hacking is involved of course.)

15 skill points at creation for a one-time-only-general-shooting bonus. worth it?

Well, 2 levels can make a major difference later on- the difference between any two levels can make a major difference at the right point in the game. Of course, to answer if it is worth it, we really need to figure out how Combat shooting works for sure...

[atoga]

It's entirely useless, at least according to Per's WL walkthrough >>>

[Temaperacl]

Actually, the walkthrough states that no one knows what it does, and that it doesn't seem to help with shooting, although I doubt a highly systematic testing of it was done.

In any case, I'm not in total agreement about that walkthrough's suggestions on some of the other skills either.

[BloodGod]

guys, these few days i've been testing the cmbt shooting thing :-

chars have been running around with only ONE skill assigned- cmbt shooting at level 4, with all dex at 18, rank not too high not too low (maybe at grenadier), and even shooting at monsters like radioactive vermin took them quite long...the chars always miss! i'm beginning to feel bad about this...."skill"

tested with AK97, red ryder, pistols, ion beamers, laser pistols

oh. and it sticks at 4.

[atoga]

maybe it's jinxed? Makes it harder to shoot?

[Temaperacl]

'k- I've got some results back, but I haven't gathered enough data to be able to make any really solid claims yet. (And so far, all my tests have been with pistols and at low skill levels only- Skill=10 to 18 [focus 11-14]))

(For this, Skill=AGL+Clip Pistol or DEX+Clip Pistol (I wasn't sure which was used for clip pistol, so all my characters have AGL=DEX so that it isn't important. I sort it by this since so far according to my tests, a person with AGL/DEX of, say, 13, shoots about the same as a person with AGL/DEX of 10 and CP of 3)

[CP= Clip Pistol]
[CS= Combat Shooting]
So far it looks like Combat Shooting has a positive, but quite minor effect. Given four characters:
A1, with Skill=11, No CS
A2, with Skill=10, CS=2
A3, with SKill=10, CS=4
A4, with Skill=10, CS=0

A1 will shoot the best, with an average* of 37%
A3 will shoot second best with an average* of 31%
A2 will shoot third best with an average* of 28%
A4 will shoot worst with an average* of 25%

*Average (Hit %) is based on the characters fighting the creatures in the cave under the Ag. Center. Each one is based on just under 200 data entries [gathered from 16 characters - 4 tests of 4 characters each] so far.