J.E. Sawyer on Fallout 3

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sun May 18, 2003 3:29 pm

avenger, here's the deal. Black Isle tends to name their secret projects after US Presidents. Jefferson has been in development under JE Sawyer for some time now, and Van Buren was reportedly in pre-production. With recent events at Interplay and BIS, certain pieces of evidence have come to light that indicate that Van Buren could be Fallout 3.

Check this our for more information.

avenger69ie · Post by **avenger69ie** » Sun May 18, 2003 4:27 pm

ok, i'm now in the light and out of the darkness ... i think.

well, cheers anyway

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Sun May 18, 2003 8:03 pm

7. chris avellone is van burens lead designer
8. chris avellone was promised the elad design in fo3

I would think it is safe to say it's fucked if it's Fallout 3.

Zbyram · Post by **Zbyram** » Sun May 18, 2003 8:06 pm

Rosh wrote:I would think it is safe to say it's fucked if it's Fallout 3.

Oh come on, maybe the man has changed. Many years have passed since he made New Reno... he had some serious talk with the fans during that time, I believe he can do it right.

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Sun May 18, 2003 8:15 pm

Zbyram wrote: Oh come on, maybe the man has changed. Many years have passed since he made New Reno... he had some serious talk with the fans during that time, I believe he can do it right.

Pffff...every time there's been a release of the Bileball, there's had to be corrections sent in. Not to mention the thing about 1 car per 100 people in NCR, when one car was supposed to be remarkable, because there was no gas and to get a working part for the car you had to get what was a part that was likely hidden away in a reactor's underground area and protected.

It got to be so bad that I stopped reading them and sending in corrections because it was like playing "spot the shitty easter egg in Fallout 2", but in a "spot where Avellone is making his own shit up in this document" kind of way. One or two mistakes is one thing. But if you're going to show that level of incompetence and call yourself a developer...holy shit...

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Sun May 18, 2003 8:17 pm

heh. Roshy, don't fret at least a crappy FO3 will give us finality to the license and we can all move on with our lives.

Zbyram · Post by **Zbyram** » Sun May 18, 2003 8:40 pm

All I wanted to say is that now when the chance for Fo3 seems real it's pretty bad to mock the person that's going to make it. Besides take into account that he didn't get any cash for doing the bible (as far as I know) so maybe he wasn't too serious about it. Fuck, you're whining before anything has happened. I'd like Tim Cain to make Fo3 too but the reality is that we need to trust in Avellone. (if Van Buren is really Fo3) And if he fucks up... there's always what Killzig said.

Sammael · Post by **Sammael** » Sun May 18, 2003 8:41 pm

Rosh & Co:

Apparently, Tim Cain has a higher opionion of MCA than you do.

Now what?

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Sun May 18, 2003 8:43 pm

I saw that but then again we all know that Tim is generous and benevolent almost to a fault.

Grey_Ghost · Post by **Grey_Ghost** » Sun May 18, 2003 8:44 pm

Um Fallout 2 changed the Fallout 1 theme of not having real world guns, which one do you prefer?

Eh? Desert Eagle sounded like a real world weapon to me.

Grey_Ghost

Sammael · Post by **Sammael** » Sun May 18, 2003 8:44 pm

Killzig wrote:I saw that but then again we all know that Tim is generous and benevolent almost to a fault.

Lolz.

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Sun May 18, 2003 8:46 pm

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Sun May 18, 2003 8:49 pm

Zbyram wrote:All I wanted to say is that now when the chance for Fo3 seems real it's pretty bad to mock the person that's going to make it.

You're right, I should be thankful for the possibility for a shitty Fo3 versus no Fo3 at all.

Now excuse me as I go laugh my ass off.

Are you sure you don't work for Interplay with that mentality?

Besides take into account that he didn't get any cash for doing the bible (as far as I know) so maybe he wasn't too serious about it.

CLUE TIME!

It was being used to draw up documents for them to reference for any possible upcoming Fallout titles. And then he perniciously botches up the Bileball. I hope you're bright enough to figure out the connection there considering he would be the Lead Developer.

Fuck, you're whining before anything has happened.

Something has already happened, weaselnuts.

I'd like Tim Cain to make Fo3 too but the reality is that we need to trust in Avellone.

Which is comedic gold, given what he's done already and also stated on the Interplay forums.

(if Van Buren is really Fo3) And if he fucks up... there's always what Killzig said.

Yes, it completely destroys the license, turns a negative eye by the consumers towards the previous CRPGs, and makes any viability of someone else buying the license to do anything productive of it null and void.

About the only good thing to come of it would be furthering the already existing hatred for Interplay. That doesn't need any more help, since they do it easily on their own.

EDIT:

Sammael, you also have to take the context of the following.

"Between the two of them, I am sure Josh and MCA can come up with a pretty damn good game..."

In other words, I think Tim might have been putting more faith into Bishop than MCA. Instead of a nudge, MCA needs a few whacks with a cluex4. It could also mean that Bishop has to tell MCA "Shut up, Chris" a few times.

Zbyram · Post by **Zbyram** » Sun May 18, 2003 8:56 pm

Man, it has to be boring to know everything before it happens. Ok everyone let's start writing petitions to BIS not to make Fo3. That's the only right thing to do. Anyway I don't want to argue anymore, it's pointless, you win or whatever.

Sammael · Post by **Sammael** » Sun May 18, 2003 9:00 pm

Rosh:

Funny you should say that. As far as I know, Tim worked with MCA but not with Josh (who was still not at BIS when Tim left). Thus, I don't see why he would be giving Josh all that credit. Especially considering that (apart from Jefferson) Josh was responsible for Icewind Dale, Heart of Winter, and Icewind Dale II. Hardly stellar titles.

I like Josh's ideas. I really do. But I have yet to play a game designed by him that will blow me away.

On the other hand, Torment is my favorite RPG of all times.

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Sun May 18, 2003 9:02 pm

Zbyram wrote:Man, it has to be boring to know everything before it happens. Ok everyone let's start writing petitions to BIS not to make Fo3. That's the only right thing to do.

Clueless shit.

Anyway I don't want to argue anymore, it's pointless, you win or whatever.

With weak hyperbole like yours, who could do anything other than "lose"?

How about this?

How about what has been said before, and if you've taken a look at the link to RPGCodex, then you might be able to rub the few remaining neurons in your brain together and figure out and figure out that if MCA would be a bad lead for the game, then put someone more knowledable and capable on the job. Which would be...ah, hell, you can figure it out, I'm sure.

Edit:

Sammael, I've played PS:T, and I do find it enjoyable except for the Infinity Engine's combat and utterly shitty pathfinding. Now, for the last time, understand that is not the point. Yes, MCA can make a pretty good game and story. He does, however, have little clue about the Fallout universe as has been demonstrated just about every time he noses into the subject. With a lead like him, do you think he can come up with some good design controls? If someone comes up with some crappy idea that is more deserving of Chuck Cuervos, do you think he has enough knowledge and sense about the setting and feeling of what the game backstory should be enough to change it into something better?

Of course not. With a lead that knows what's going on, but has talented co-designers that can submit him ideas, they can change them to better fit into the setting and scenario. For reference, read again that thread at RPGCodex.

Of course, that's good design, but we shouldn't be concerned about that...

Zbyram · Post by **Zbyram** » Sun May 18, 2003 9:11 pm

Yea I know, that would be you. Oh, and FUCK YOU asshole. I didn't insult you, oh Mr Almighty. Who the fuck do you think you are? I wanted to end the matter and you just had to write one more "witty" thing. Go whore yourself to your dad stupid bitch. kthxbye

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Sun May 18, 2003 9:14 pm

Zbyram wrote:Yea I know, that would be you. Oh, and FUCK YOU asshole. I didn't insult you, oh Mr Almighty. Who the fuck do you think you are?

Someone who does know what they are talking about, versus someone who just continuously rapes their keyboard while not using their head as anything more than a visual interface to deposit one more mental defecation upon the forum. Which would be yourself. If you're going to debate, fine. If you want to whine about how you can't post anything pertaining to the subject, do it to yourself.

Sammael · Post by **Sammael** » Sun May 18, 2003 9:17 pm

Let's imagine the following (completely hypothetical) scenario:

Chris comes up with an idea for a FO3 storyline. He works on that idea, adding more and more to it until he is satisfied. He then discusses those ideas with Sawyer and other BIS employees (such as Chris Jones). They examine his design, and point out the flaws in regard to the Fallout universe. Since Chris can take criticism, he reconsiders his ideas and adjusts them to fit the FO universe better.

Rinse and repeat. For five years.

I know, this is the most optimistic scenario imaginable. But I just can't see why you won't give him the benefit of the doubt.

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Sun May 18, 2003 9:33 pm

Sammael wrote:Let's imagine the following (completely hypothetical) scenario:

Very well, and I'll give one of my own in turn.

Chris comes up with an idea for a FO3 storyline. He works on that idea, adding more and more to it until he is satisfied. He then discusses those ideas with Sawyer and other BIS employees (such as Chris Jones). They examine his design, and point out the flaws in regard to the Fallout universe. Since Chris can take criticism, he reconsiders his ideas and adjusts them to fit the FO universe better.

Rinse and repeat. For five years.

Yes, as he's been required to be corrected at every turn, it would take an IMMENSE amount of work un-screwing what he has done at every turn. It would take even more work, given that since Chris would go back and re-work it, it would have to be checked over again.

Now, imagine the following.

Someone is put at the helm who knows what the Fallout setting is about and designs the overview, how it ties into the backstory, etc. since he knows about that, and then looks or more ideas. The other developers work with him and what might not fit due to some aspect of the setting, might be altered by him in tweaks or little redesigns enough so that it can fit, and done with their understanding.

So the process for ironing out design only takes 2-3 steps before it's established to be used, instead of 5 or more.

I know, this is the most optimistic scenario imaginable.

For MCA at the helm, yeah.

But I just can't see why you won't give him the benefit of the doubt.

The problem is, is that while he may be able to take some criticism, he just doesn't have the knowledge and understanding of the material to begin with. That's what is biting Chuck Cuervos in the ass right now. It is also the signs of a poor developer. The main point about game development, the Lead Designer should NEVER be the clueless one. That's how crap games are, and being, made.