JE Sawyer's ideas on Fallout 3 skillz

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:01 pm

[Game -> Update]

JE Sawyer, that kooky, zany guy with lots of opinions and such, offers up <A href="http://forums.interplay.com/viewtopic.php?t=22479">in this thread</a> his take on skills:
 
 <blockquote>Barter - Wheelin' and dealin'.
 Big Guns - Two handed firearms.
 Computer Ops - Programming and using the operating systems of computers/robots.
 Electronics - Working on devices that are primarily electronic (televisions, radios, broken computers, some generators, etc.).
 Leadership - A measure of effective influence over party allies.
 Lockpick - Picking locks 2 tha maxx.
 Mechanics - Working on devices that are primarily mechanical (most cars, lots of weapons, etc.)
 Medic - First Aid + Doctor
 Melee - Skill with melee weapons
 Outdoorsman - All that nature mumbo jumbo
 Science - Physics, higher mathematics, plasma/laser technology.
 Small Guns - One-handed firearms.
 Sneak - So sneaky.
 Speech - Persuasion, intimidation, subterfuge and pals.
 Steal - Ye olde pickepockette
 Throwing - Chuckin' stuf.
 Traps - How to make 'em, how to break 'em.
 Unarmed - Unarmed combat.</blockquote>
 
 It's kind of interesting he combines First Aid and Doctor while breaking up things like Repair in to Mechanical and Electronics, and removing computer stuff from Science and putting it in to it's own skill. I kind of like the Science skill doing the computer stuff, since 1950s sci-fi says that only scientists can use those magical marvels, and Computer Ops just seems too modern of a concept, but that's just me.

Kreegle · Post by **Kreegle** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:19 pm

Doesn't sound too bad... I'd be happy to go along with it, as long as there were enough moments in the game that required those new skills.

Raymondo · Post by **Raymondo** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:23 pm

Yeah unlike FO 2. I think I only used the Science skill once and why use the picklock skill when you can blow the door down?

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:24 pm

Yeah, sounds like you are going to need someone in your party who wastes all his XP points on the 'teknikal' stuff.

Forty-six & Two · Post by **Forty-six & Two** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:28 pm

Saint_Proverbius wrote:Big Guns - Two handed firearms.
Small Guns - One-handed firearms.

Unless im in total error by assuming that rifles needs two hands to be fired effectively, ive always wondered why they were under small guns, described as guns used with one hand.

Edit: Removed some babble.

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:33 pm

Another thing I find confusing is why there's a skill for how well you can influence party members when there's the Speech skill. If you're a smooth talking, silver tongued devil who can talk the big bad bosses in to killing themselves for you, I'm not sure you'd have trouble convincing party members to make sure they don't kill you with burst fire.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:38 pm

Fallout Junkie wrote:Yeah unlike FO 2. I think I only used the Science skill once and why use the picklock skill when you can blow the door down?

Science skill is actually quite useful throughout FO 1 & 2, as is Repair. No need to pump them way up as you would a weapon skill, but still handy.

As for exploding doors vs. lockpicking them, that's the whole choice thing we love about Fallout.

And Leadership strikes me as redundant. How could someone be very good at inspiring his allies to excel in combat and other areas, and yet be totally useless at convincing someone else to let him sneak in somewhere?

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:41 pm

Forty-six & Two wrote:
Saint_Proverbius wrote:Big Guns - Two handed firearms.
Small Guns - One-handed firearms.
Unless im in total error by assuming that rifles needs two hands to be fired effectively, ive always wondered why they were under small guns, described as guns used with one hand.

Edit: Removed some babble.

So a Uzi would be two handed than? Or a Mack 10? Since firing it in 1 hand is only something Arnold swell guy can do...

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:43 pm

I think that all of his ideas can't be really judged until we know what charecter system Fallout 3 will use...

If it's going to use the original SPECIAL system, then breaking down science and repair to so many sub skills might be tricky. Someone who wants to have a "smart" charecter will have to devide skills between many categories.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:49 pm

That's true. A combat oriented character only really needs one or two skills to succeed but has to pump them very high, which seriously drains skill points, especially above 100%. Diplomat/scientist types, who might talk, hack or sneak their way out, need to improve more skills, but they don't need to go anywhere near as high to succeed at even the most difficult rolls in the game. Letting combat characters use only one skill (rifles can be found pretty fast in an FO game, so big guns is really all a given character build could need) while non-combat character need more skills than ever might break something.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Sat May 31, 2003 7:41 pm

Doesn't look too bad, but I guess you can judge these things after you tried them in-game, like how they fit in the game and how well balanced they are etc. Dunno about splitting Science and Repair though, and Leadership sounds pretty useless(can't CHR determine that?). Where's Energy Weapons?

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sat May 31, 2003 7:48 pm

I think Energy Weapons has been incorporated into Science (Science - Physics, higher mathematics, plasma/laser technology). I'm not sure I agree with that. Sure, only a scientist can understand how the things work, but energy weapons are designed to be used easily by the average US military grunt, and even civilians (Wattz laser pistol). A straight-up energy weapons skill would be better.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sat May 31, 2003 7:50 pm

VasikkA wrote:Where's Energy Weapons?

Science apperntly, which is really quite stupid, because it means a non combat charecter will be pretty good in combat.

Not that it matters, as this just a little thread JE Sawyer posted, and not the skill list for Fallout 3.

DJ SlamÃƒÂ¡k · Post by **DJ SlamÃƒÂ¡k** » Sat May 31, 2003 7:53 pm

I think they've been sorted under small and big guns, because JE's definition is small = held in one hand, big = two hands.

SuperH · Post by **SuperH** » Sat May 31, 2003 7:53 pm

JE Sawyer wrote: Big Guns - Two handed firearms.
Small Guns - One-handed firearms.

Energy weapons go in with regular weapons, either big or small depending on size. I remember reading that somewhere in another post on the iply boards.
Maybe the understanding of plasma and such is for the production of such weapons...?

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Sat May 31, 2003 7:55 pm

Yeah, I sometimes wondered why it needed an own weapon skill. It surely isn't more complicated than loading it with a cell and pressing the trigger? Sounds more reasonable now. Or maybe it needs constant tweaking and adjustments to operate it properly or it overheats.

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Sat May 31, 2003 8:01 pm

I don't like the disappearance of the energy weapon skill. It should have stayed. Instead why don't you make guns incumbent on more than just the gun skills. For example, a gatling laser and how well you use it should be based on big guns, energy weapons, your strength, perception and endurance. Looks like a significantly gimped skill system which would lend itself to jack of all trades characters and not really correcting that problem in the special system from FO1 and 2.

Red · Post by **Red** » Sat May 31, 2003 8:11 pm

Basically the guns skill has transformed into a "aim weapon with some form of recoil" skill. They have to balance various types of weapons for each skills, removing that skill simplifying matters... Though it existing made interesting gameplay considering the game keeps the different DR/DT categories...

Let's take a look at them:
- Throwing (mostly left out in Fallouts)
- Unarmed (better handled in FO2 as you could still beat the crap out of people on higher levels with a high skill and ideally some perks)
- Small Guns (Obvious)
- Big Guns (I don't like their description mentiuoned of it, it'd mean sniper rifles fit in there? Handling a sniper rifle doesn't seem to take the same types of skills as handling a rocket launcher, a grenade launcher nor a minigun...)

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Sat May 31, 2003 8:17 pm

wow, this is good stuff. I like the divisions of Science into the various skills, and I hope that that means Science will have more applications outside of computers. Unless Science handles Energy Weapons? Which personally I think is stupid. Energy weapons have always been a big part of Fallout.

Also, I think Speech should be further divided into Intimidation, Diplomacy, and whatnot.

An Athletics skill, covering running, jumping, swimming, and climbing, would also be a welcome addition.

Finally, no Pilot or Gambling!?

Red · Post by **Red** » Sat May 31, 2003 8:33 pm

I don't perticularely like the divisions chosen... I mean they'll have to find ways to incorporate all skills together so that inveseting in each is equally worth it. If you invest 100 in Mechanics, Science, Electronics and Computers, you've waste 700 skill points (given the new way they want to allow points to be given)and will probably only barely use all those skills.put mechanics and electronics together at least.

I mean sure they COULD do that, but I highly doubt such details will indeed be taken into enough consideration to be a worthwhile skill investment.

Duck and Cover

JE Sawyer's ideas on Fallout 3 skillz

JE Sawyer's ideas on Fallout 3 skillz

Re: JE Sawyer's ideas on Fallout 3 skillz

Re: JE Sawyer's ideas on Fallout 3 skillz

Re: JE Sawyer's ideas on Fallout 3 skillz