J.E. Sawyer On Fallout Firearms

[Saint_Proverbius]

The gauss pistol does 22 to 32 damage and it's AP cost is 4. The pulse rifle does 54 to 78 damage and it's AP cost is 5. If we assume a character has 20 AP (a number divisible by both 4 and 5) then that means that guy should be able to get off 5 gauss pistol attacks should he not move in one round, and get off 4 pulse rifle attacks should he not move in one round.

The average of the gauss pistol damage is: (22+32)/2 = 27 damage
The average of the pulse rifle damage is: (54+78 )/2 = 66 damage
27 average gauss pistol damage times 5 gauss pistol attacks = a total of 135 damage
66 average pulse rifle damage times 4 pulse rifle attacks = a total of 264 damage

You're forgetting the 3/2 Damage Mod(DM) and the -20Damage Resistance done by the 2MM EC ammo.

• 2MM EC Ammo
  AC Mod -30
  DR Mod -20
  DMG Mod 3/2

The pulse rifle uses Micro Fusion Cells, which don't get DR and have a DM of 1/1.

The stats on the gauss weapons are the weapon stats multiplied by 3/2 because of the DM. I always factor in that DM for the calculation simply because that's the base damage for that weapon since it's the only ammo type available.

You also need to consider that gauss weapons, because of the ammo, also do -20 to Damage Resistance(DR), which is like adding 20 points damage to the equation on how much damage it's doing, since it removes the resistance that's typically taken away by the armor for things like the pulse rifle since the pulse rifle doesn't get any damage resistance modifier.

So, really, the gauss pistol's average damage looks more like:

• (22+32)/2 = 27*1.5DM = 40.5 + 20DR = 60.5

The pulse rifle is still at 66 average damage, since it doesn't have a damage mod or a damage resistance value.

Factor in that the gauss pistol takes one less AP to fire and has close to the pulse rifle's ACTUAL damage, I think it's safe to say the guass pistol pwnz the pulse rifle.

Instead of 135 damage for five shots, you're actually talking about 302.5 damage. Quite a big difference, don't you think?

Also, your figure of 20AP is rather flawed. Consider that the average AP of a character is probably around 8-9AP in Fallout per round, what you're looking at is two gauss pistol shots per round versus one pulse rifle shot. As such, you're dealing with the guy using the pulse rifle only getting 66 average damage while the gauss pistol guy is getting 121 damage per round. Remember that APs not used are APs that disappear when the round is over. It would take 10AP to fire the pulse rifle twice in order to get an average damage better than the gauss pistol.

Should the gauss pistol wielder use gauss pistols akimbo and effective double his damage with the gauss pistol, he would get 270 damage out of the gauss pistol vs. the 264 damage of the pulse rifle.

With pistols akimbo, you're talking about 605 damage in five attacks, versus the 264 damage on the pulse rifle in four attacks. Think that's even remotely balanced? I sure don't.

It's nice to show the mathematics behind these things, but when doing so, make sure you include every aspect - especially the ammo! 2MM EC has some rather loftly bonuses to it.

JE is now considering ditching the one-handed guns skill and two handed-guns skill, and going for just one skill- the marksmanship skill, ala JA2. 12th post down.

Lovely. :roll:

[EN.]

*snip*

Heh... pawned by the Fallout Master. Now I finally know how it feels like.

Edit by Spazmo: We didn't really need the whole thing quoted. Thanks.

[Saint_Proverbius]

Well, don't feel too bad. I'm guessing that JE Sawyer himself doesn't know about the ammo mod thing for 2MM EC, or else he wouldn't be claiming that the pulse rifle is SO VASTLY SUPER compared to the gauss pistol.

So, in case he reads this, I'll put it in terms even he can understand..

Imagine playing a game of D&D in a location where you have long bows and crossbows where the only bolts available are +3, +6 damage bolts. The long bow might do more base damage, but you have to consider the bolts when rolling up that damage!

[Doyle]

Saint, Damage Threshold is the one that removes points of damage, DR is a percentage.

[Saint_Proverbius]

Saint, Damage Threshold is the one that removes points of damage, DR is a percentage.

That's armor values, not ammo.

[Doyle]

Yes, Saint, but when ammo has a negative DR mod, that means it reduces the targets DR by that percentage. It doesn't add damage point for point to the total.

[atoga]

Doyle's right, I believe. Will Fallout 3 have DT/DR or be revised for just DT?

[Killa-Killa]

Why not leave it the way it is?

[Saint_Proverbius]

Yes, Saint, but when ammo has a negative DR mod, that means it reduces the targets DR by that percentage. It doesn't add damage point for point to the total.

Okay, gotcha. So with the 2MM EC, if you had a DR on your armor of 40, when the ammo hits, it calculates it at 20%.. So, it's +8.1 damage instead of 20 for the average damage yield, and +9.6 for the max damage yield on the guess pistol.

Of course, even without that bonus, which the pulse rifle still doesn't get, the gauss pistol still beats the pulse rifle in terms of damage per round unless you have less than 8AP and can fire both once or 10AP and can fire the pulse rifle twice. This, of course, neglects perks and traits that affect fire rate.

[Jeff]

Why not leave it the way it is?

Haven't you heard?
It's not called the S.P.E.C.I.A.L system anymore,
it's JE's very own P.R.E.C.I.O.U.S now!