JE wants their opinion(not yours)

[Reklar]

Petey_the_Skid posted: I've read most of that thread as well, and yes, it is mostly positive, with the folks there agreeing with JE for the most part. You must admit, that nobody will want to post anything where they are only going to encounter unremitting hostility from the majority of other users, along with no constructive feedback at all except "Don't change a goddamn thing at all! Otherwise you're a fuckhead who should never have been born at all and is destined to burn in hell with Satan forever!". Nobody is going to post in an environment like that.

Some of the people here are worse than funadamentalist born again christians.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I don't notice you posting anything constructive in this thread either. Calling people fanatical idiots, whether true or not, does not really add anything to the topic at hand. If you want to call people on not being constructive in adding to the conversation, the least you can do is lead by example.

What I have noticed from the various news posts seems to confirm the general feeling of uneasiness or downright despair that is infuriating this community. JE Sawyer may be a nice guy and he may even be a good developer, but the changes he's suggesting will do absolutely nothing to preserve even the concept of the Fallout universe, let alone add anything appealing to it. It is my sincerest hope at this point that Van Buren is either not Fallout 3 or it gets postponed/cancelled again. It would be an insult to the gaming community in general to produce a hacked together hybrid of genres and call it the sequel to one of, if not the best, computer role-playing franchises in history.

[peasofme]

petey the skid said:
He doesn't post on fansites because of idiots like you. At least folks like Doomsayer and Saint Proverbius have reasons for what they post, but this kind of fanatic, hostile irrationality is pathetic.


were u talking about urself when u said this? god ur a moron. now i know why iwd was such shit. i think chuck queervos is petey the skid, they both hate negativity. good luck on fallout for xbox dude! fuckin homo

[Saint_Proverbius]

What I have noticed from the various news posts seems to confirm the general feeling of uneasiness or downright despair that is infuriating this community.

I think this is a good point. Fallout fans have been waiting for five years for a sequel to Fallout to be made since Fallout 2. Fallout fans have had five years to anticipate playing in the setting with the mechanics that have kept them longing for five years. Fallout 3 finally goes beyond pre-production, which would be a happy, happy time, and really was a happy time.. until..

Well, first off, the lead designer didn't show up here and ask us anything. He stuck to the IPLY forum, which I might remind you that a lot of Fallout fans were banned from for protesting Fallout Enforcer. That's fine, it's a company forum, I expect him to gather feedback there. However! Most of the things he's indicated haven't been received well by the Fallout fans, things like streamlining the skill system, adding dual wielding, and so forth.

But to never venture to the old Fallout fan sites, NMA and DAC are both about six years old now, ask our opinions on the subject, and then to run to SomethingAwful.com and ask them instead? How is that not supposed to piss us off? If the seeds of resentment were sown by bringing up feature changes that were questionable, that someof us didn't like.. Going to SomethingAwful.com to query their users instead of asking things on NMA or DAC is definitely going to make the unhappy dance a mambo.

[Sammael]

What Saint said.

[EN.]

You know, I think there might be the possibility that the reason why J.E. posted on SomethingAwful is because he's trying to be inconspicuous. Remember- he's not even supposed to be posting any ideas or questions or answers at all unless they are vague and cryptic. Van Buren hasn't been announced yet. He's not supposed to be leaking gameplay and information tidbits into the internet. The posts he made in SA are outright blatant explanations of a completely new gameplay feature- something someone couldn't just ask him for- and therefore an outright display of leaking information. Interplay is probably monitoring DAC and NMA as well as their own boards, so SA would be one of the only few places where J.E. would be safe to post this stuff...

However, I think that is the exact reason why J.E. hasn't been responding to the cries of FO fans everywhere for posting in SA. After DAC and NMA both linked to SA, Interplay may have found out about it and shut him up.

I mean really... if he really was going to post that much information, why didn't he post it in the interplay forums right there and then? He couldn't. He couldn't because it's obviously not allowed by the higher-ups. He couldn't post it in Interplay's board because it was owned by Interplay, and Interplay doesn't want him talking about anything Van Buren. (The reason for Interplay's secrecy may even have come directly from the whole FOBOS ordeal)

I mean, after all, J.E. DID post the gasbot picture on SA. That was concept art- more major than cryptic clues about gameplay.

[DarkUnderlord]

Interplay is probably monitoring DAC and NMA as well as their own boards, so SA would be one of the only few places where J.E. would be safe to post this stuff...

You don't think that with all their monitoring, they'd notice that we're talking about J.E. posting stuff on the SomethingAwful forums?

Maybe they can't afford to sign up, so that keeps the Interplay executives out?

[Killa-Killa]

(laughs, then realizes that we just F#%&ed sawyer over if what you said was true...) what DarkUnderlord said
wait a minute... they could still look at 'em, just not post.

[EN.]

Interplay is probably monitoring DAC and NMA as well as their own boards, so SA would be one of the only few places where J.E. would be safe to post this stuff...

You don't think that with all their monitoring, they'd notice that we're talking about J.E. posting stuff on the SomethingAwful forums?

Maybe they can't afford to sign up, so that keeps the Interplay executives out?

Well, it's not like IPLAY execs could sneak into JE's house or anything.
If JE just posts in SA in weekends when he's at home, when not in the company, then he's in a completely private area. It's not like IPLAY can monitor JE's personal computer.

For your second point: exactly. They have noticed JE posting on the somethingawful boards by monitoring DAC. JE hasn't been posting in the normal Interplay boards for quite a while. JE hasn't made any comments at all about the newsposts on him posting in SA: even though people are kind of miffed at him for posting in SA. I think that he would at least make some sort of PM or something, but we've heard absolutely nothing from him. It's like he's just stopped posting.

[Petey_the_Skid]

*shrugs*I do my posting up at the interplay boards for the most part. Everything that JE posted at something awful has also been posted on the black isle feedback board, as I did make it a point to wade through the 50+ pages among various threads that JE has posted in, and interject various coments here and there.

What I would really like to see in fallout 3 is ammo scarcity and a system to track food/water usage, which would add to the survival feel of the game, something that I found was very lacking in the other games after you put in a few hours.

If i seemed a bit harsh, it's from hours of reading through stuff that offers many good ideas, with a few obstinate posters who constantly personally denigrate the designers. Disaggree with them, sure, go ahead, but there's absolutely no reason to go to the level of some of these posters. Tis my shame that I let anger get the best of me.

edit: I woulld love to be a designer of any game type, as someone here suggested, but I'm just a lowly telemarketer demon from the 1rst Circle of Hell, still honing my abilities and evilness.

[EN.]

I don't think he posted anything in the interplay boards that was as detailed as his post in SA forums, and if he did cover some of that stuff in the IPLY forums, most of it was made from cryptic answers after people asked him.

[Saint_Proverbius]

What I would really like to see in fallout 3 is ammo scarcity and a system to track food/water usage, which would add to the survival feel of the game, something that I found was very lacking in the other games after you put in a few hours.

You found the scarcity of ammo in Fallout and Fallout 2 lacking because ammo is still being made by various factions in both games. How come so many people missed all the references to ammo being made?

And personally, if I wanted to worry about eating, drinking, and shitting, I'd play The Sims.

[Jeff]

I don't really understand all this fighting shizzniz - I don't want to jump around like some ninja just to kick some cunt's head in? Maybe I'm reading him the wrong way but it almost makes me think he wants to implement this just so the kiddies could see som k3wl a$$ kickin FX!!!1.

If it(the old system) ain't broke, don't fix it. I guess you could have more general specializations, and allow skills to influence eachother in a more sensible manner, but I don't really see the need.

the problem is that i do think it was broke. i've thought so since 1997. skills like gambling are worthless at best and bad at worst. first aid and medic are so shallow that i can't understand why they weren't one skill to begin with.

Yeah ok, gambling is a bit sucky, so are the first aid and doctor skills perhaps, but why the fuck is he trying to "fix" the weapons system for instance? It seems like he's adding akimbo uzi action skillz and all that jazz just because he can. I'd prefer if they concentrated on the story instead of tinkering with SPECIAL or something :B

[atoga]

the problem is that i do think it was broke. i've thought so since 1997. skills like gambling are worthless at best and bad at worst. first aid and medic are so shallow that i can't understand why they weren't one skill to begin with.

Untrue. Such skills can have quite a use. Just tie 'em in to the story, give 'em a more detailed rules set, and make sure that everybody will encounter at least a few situations involving the skill (on the beaten path). Not hard to do, and it would certainly work better than drastically changing the system.

[N]

As I've said -- it's not the system (SPECIAL) that's broke, it's the actual game built around it. If situations and elements aren't there to utilize the skills the way they were designed, don't blame the ruleset for an inept game in terms of content.

[Petey_the_Skid]

What I would really like to see in fallout 3 is ammo scarcity and a system to track food/water usage, which would add to the survival feel of the game, something that I found was very lacking in the other games after you put in a few hours.

You found the scarcity of ammo in Fallout and Fallout 2 lacking because ammo is still being made by various factions in both games. How come so many people missed all the references to ammo being made?

And personally, if I wanted to worry about eating, drinking, and shitting, I'd play The Sims.

Ammo was made in 2 places In FO 1(Adytum and the Gunrunners, which are right next to each other), and possibly the BOS as well, not just lying around everywhere in the wastes for people to find it.

As for food and water, it is very easy to implement a simple tracking system where you don't have to worry about telling your person when to eat/drink, it just happens automatcically as long as you have the necessary supplies. However, serious consequences can result from NOT having food/water.

For all you're inane banter, one would think you've forgotten that the key point of Fallout is that it is a post apocalyptic setting, and that providing free ammo at will and not tracking food and water detracts from the game setting and ruins immersion.

[Petey_the_Skid]

I don't think he posted anything in the interplay boards that was as detailed as his post in SA forums, and if he did cover some of that stuff in the IPLY forums, most of it was made from cryptic answers after people asked him.

Everything he posted in SA was already previously posted in the interplay forums, just in separate threads...the SA thread is a reposting of the various threads here:

Unarmed http://forums.interplay.com/viewtopic.php?t=25421

Persuasion and NPC's http://forums.interplay.com/viewtopic.php?t=25063

Weapon and Gun Skills http://forums.interplay.com/viewtopic.php?t=24185

Everything he went over in the SA forum are in there.

[Spazmo]

Ammo was made in 2 places In FO 1(Adytum and the Gunrunners, which are right next to each other), and possibly the BOS as well, not just lying around everywhere in the wastes for people to find it.

And that same ammo would get traded by the Gun Runners, Adytum and the Brotherhood to caravans from the Hub for a wide variety of food and supplies. These same caravans would then resell this ammo to other communities. Raiders would steal ammo from caravans and other communities. Thus, ammunition spreads throughout the wasteland.

As for food and water, it is very easy to implement a simple tracking system where you don't have to worry about telling your person when to eat/drink, it just happens automatcically as long as you have the necessary supplies. However, serious consequences can result from NOT having food/water.

Fallout 1 actually had this. If you didn't have a water canteen in your inventory, you'd occasionally drop out of travel to be told you were thirsty. Occasional Outdoorsman rolls let you scrounge for more water.

For all you're inane banter, one would think you've forgotten that the key point of Fallout is that it is a post apocalyptic setting, and that providing free ammo at will and not tracking food and water detracts from the game setting and ruins immersion.

And you're forgetting that feeding your party is not fun. It's even less fun to die not because of combat or poison or something interesting, but because you starve. This gameplay element hasn't appeared in an RPG in years because it is not fun.

[Petey_the_Skid]

As I've said -- it's not the system (SPECIAL) that's broke, it's the actual game built around it. If situations and elements aren't there to utilize the skills the way they were designed, don't blame the ruleset for an inept game in terms of content.

Gambling and Throwing are support skills that are just not very useful in many situations. Anything specially designed to suit these skills would very likely seem obvious and contrived.

First Aid is redundant if you have points in Doctor, and both of them were of limited use as well, especially considering the 3 use/wait several hours limit. They need to be fixed.

As for weapons, I would have been happy with a 3 gun split(Handguns/SMG's, Rifles/Shotguns, Heavy wepaons), unarmed and melee. Collapsing throwing into melee is arguable but has it's merits considering the extremely narrow and limited possibilities that throwing offered, and bolsters melee as a skill somewhat compared to the others.

It appears that JE has decided to go the Jagged Alliance route for guns, having a single marksmanship skill that represents basic skill and modifying that with perks.

[Petey_the_Skid]

And you're forgetting that feeding your party is not fun. It's even less fun to die not because of combat or poison or something interesting, but because you starve. This gameplay element hasn't appeared in an RPG in years because it is not fun.

*shrugs* I never found it not fun, and it gives you something to do with all those bottlecaps you get in you're travels. It also opens up myriad opportunities for quests and missions. As has been stated in this thread over at interplay: http://forums.interplay.com/viewtopic.php?t=25319

As for trading, very few people traded with the gunrunners because of the Deathclaws, and most of Adytum's ammo was reserved for the regulators. Besides, it really does detract from the setting, ammo should be rare, and precious.

I wouldn't mind a slider allowing you to adjust the amount of ammo available in the game, it could be one of the difficulty settings.

Example: Ammo Availability: Scarce, Normal, Abundant.

[atoga]

The BOS made a ton of ammo.

As for food & water tracking, it's a good thing. It smacks of tabletop rpgs, which is what SPECIAL's all about, so long as it's well implemented & isn't too much of a pain in the ass.