Tim Cain p0wnz teh n00bz

Sammael · Post by **Sammael** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:18 pm

Doyle wrote:Then how is what Tim Cain said wrong?

Because every successful D&D game in the past five years was real-time?

swordinstone · Post by **swordinstone** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:19 pm

Sammael wrote:
Doyle wrote:Then how is what Tim Cain said wrong?
Because every successful D&D game in the past five years was real-time?

and every single one has been criticized for being an unpure (and flawed) version of DnD. However im willing to look past this for the option of multiplayer. I wouldnt even mind trying a TB multiplayer version of DnD, but it better flow well, i hate waiting 1/2 an hour for someone to finish running their descions through charts and graphs before clicking the end turn button.

Sammael · Post by **Sammael** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:24 pm

swordinstone wrote:and every single one has been criticized for being an unpure (and flawed) version of DnD.

BG2 literally raped AD&D Second Edition rules. But it was a pretty damn good game. Who gives a fuck about the rules if the game is fun to play?

Incidentally, who were the critics? The reviewers who gave it scores in the 91-100 range? Hundreds of thousands of gamers who bought it? Interplay forum regulars?

I just don't get it. The ruleset is not a holy scripture. The only place that uses unmodified D&D rules is the RPGA, and they do it because they have to. Everyone else plays the game however damn they want, and that usually includes at least moderate modifications to the rules. That, or DM taking lots of liberties to make the game flow.

EDIT: This is not meant to be a flame. More like a general rant...

Doyle · Post by **Doyle** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:30 pm

Because every successful D&D game in the past five years was real-time?

How does that make him wrong? Since when is being in the minority wrong or bad?

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:43 pm

Xax wrote: *Yawns* Killzig has to make differences of opinion a personal vendetta once again. I'm sure I'll get razed for not being part of the Killzig fan club, which seems to be fairly sizeable around here, but I don't mind much.

Oooo! I have a fan club!? Hardly a personal vendetta was more a comment made in poking fun.

I think JE has an excellent point.

I think JE's just being lazy.

I think leaving the system turn-based or modifying it to be real-time are both valid options, but not everyone likes the same thing as everyone else.

sure, if it could be done well but the way it usually works is that one of the two combat options is totally borked. The one usually borked always seems to be the TB option. So when on a site where most of the folks like the original fallout games which contained TB it would seem natural that most would lean that way no? I thought so too. Go figure.

Each system has it's pros and cons, but I don't believe that JE's perspective is invalid, nor is Tim Cain's.

sure but when the system is built around a specific type of combat and you're trying to make as close of a translation as possible from the p&p to the pc it would seem the best choice to keep the tb option. I think that's what Timmy was trying to get across and all of you (including JE) are missing.

archimed · Post by **archimed** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:12 pm

Mr Carrot wrote:
archimed wrote:For christ sakes.. this is the second time I've had to mention this in a week. POST FALLOUT NEWS
THIS IS NOT TIMCAIN.COM NOR TEMPLE OF ELEMENTAL EVIL.COM

Sure, timmy brainchilded fallout, but who cares anymore? He's working on a D&D system now.

Get your shit together, DAC. You're making yourselves look bad.
fuck off ya cretin. this is duck and cover not www.fallout.com they can post what ever the fuck they want.

Yeah, well I've been here since the day DAC was created, and its *ALWAYS* been fallout based. Shit, while we're reporting news on ToEE, why not report news on upcoming Doom 3? Hell, I heard Half-Life 2 is gonna be great! There's probably even an ex-Black Isle developer on one of those teams!

Sure, DAC can post whatever the hell it wants to.. but it can also become Lamespot.com if you wants to, too.

Not exactly constructive criticism, but since when has DAC's reporting when down the shitter?

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:14 pm

By broadening our scope our reporting has gone down the shitter. Mm k.

archimed · Post by **archimed** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:16 pm

By broadening your scope DAC automatically became like any other news site. Why bother reading it if you're going to report what everyone else does?

Oh, and, I might add: slippery slope. Soon enough reporting Tim Cain news won't be enough to attract more readership. Let's move on to Lucasarts games....
... Oh wait, you already reported on Lucasarts games! Knights of the Old Republic. In 5 years I had never had a single complaint about DAC, and your wonderful post on KoToR was enough to make me create a web board account and bitch about it. Is it me, or was that news post deleted? :shock:

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:18 pm

No reason, so why are you still here?

archimed · Post by **archimed** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:21 pm

Oh, und, why I'm still here fritz, is because this is only the second time in 5 years that I had a reason to moan. 2 for 5 ain't bad, and I have hope that this isn't a trend.

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:22 pm

Ahh ok, so what was the first time around archie?

archimed · Post by **archimed** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:22 pm

read above, i edited my post.

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:24 pm

Oh yea, the KOTOR thing was already addressed. I made a mistake so I deleted it. Think that's fair enough. As for posting Tim Cain stuff I don't see what the harm is he makes RPGs most of the people here on the boards and in #fallout enjoy.

archimed · Post by **archimed** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:30 pm

hey, like I said, far be it from me to dictate what DAC wants to cover as far as news goes

if your readership demands tim cain news -- go for it. But, unless I'm mistaken, Arcanum sure wasn't the be-all and end-all of RPGs.

Sort of has a star wars ring in it to me. Sure, we can deify George Lucas for making great movies in the 80's, but (without causing an international incident here) his direction sure does suck now.

Anyway, that's just 1 reader's opinion. Feel free to give me a 'fuck off', but reading this site weekly for several years gave me a flavour of what to expect from it.

swordinstone · Post by **swordinstone** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:32 pm

I'm trying fathom what exactly your problem is archi, if your going to bother bitching, why dont you explain yourself?

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:34 pm

I didn't get the star wars feel from Arcanum at all. While it certainly had its flaws (combat, a general feeling of being unfinished, and the bulky interface) it also had a pretty interesting setting, gave the player various options in terms of how to finish the game, and I was quite fond of the character system as well.

Anyways, what would you say if Troika's next big rpg once Tim's team is done with ToEE was a Post Apoc project. Would you still not want to hear about Tim?

archimed · Post by **archimed** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:39 pm

in simpler english:

DAC has been one of the largest and most respected fallout sites since it was created years and years ago. It is expansive, and covers almost the entire fallout universe. Very few sites pre-date it, even my old U-235 site (long since defunct) was only a few months older.

DAC has always remained poignant, reporting news within a fairly narrow scope. If the decision from the editing team is to broaden the scope to the point where any sort of gaming news is acceptable, then I'm out of my fave news site. I might be accused of being glib here, but if DAC is reporting ToEE news, why not report every game that Troika works on? Why not report every game that Black Isle works on? The gaming community whores its employees around like playing cards, so why not report on every ex-fallout developer that ever touched the map editor?
Sounds ridiculous, but its only a matter of time. When things get to that point, you have a generic gaming news site. You have gamespot or CGM.

i'm not going to suck the dick of every fallout developer that walked the earth. why should anyone else?

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:41 pm

I can see your point in that sense, though I find it odd you didn't complain throughout Arcanum's development. We posted lots on that over at DAC while we were on Gamespy. Right now we're trying to stick to anything post apoc and touch on other points of interest every now and again (such as what timmy's up to or feargus or Fargo) ...

archimed · Post by **archimed** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:42 pm

Hey, no problem, but that's the point: ToEE isn't a post-apoc game.
I'd rather hear about the game than dear old timmy who fell down the well.

Slave_Master · Post by **Slave_Master** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:44 pm

I understand archie's point. Isn't general RPG stuff what RPG Codex is for?

Duck and Cover

Tim Cain p0wnz teh n00bz

Re: fallout news? No.