AKs, M14s and M16s! Oh My!

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:38 am

Yeah it was that porchu character, late last night I got up to get a drink and decided to smack the mose and see what was going on since I know there are international members who post when we're asleep and I saw the anti-America post, you know because it's cool to hate the United States.

Anyways, to make up for the veering off-topic, I have a Arisaka Type 99 bolt action rifle that's been sporterized to fire .300 Savage, discuss. Yeah, that should do the trick.

PerroViejo · Post by **PerroViejo** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:38 am

Hmp. To be honest Airsoft, concerning Porcu's quote I think that personally I would skip the pitchforks and torches. I have a nice cold knif...er BEER, BEER! for him...um...either that or just let whomever goes up against wherever country he lives at get his ass on a sling and not send American troops to right the wrongs by putting their lives on the line, see how well that goes for him.

Feh! Disregard the previous paragraph, the realization just hit me that if such occurrence were to take place Porcu would either:

a) Bitch and moan about how the U.S. isn't doing enough to help his besieged country.

b) Once the U.S. actually got there and did it's 'thing' he then would bitch and moan about the U.S.'s arrogance at tampering with the internal affairs of another country.

"I am tired, too tired to think, but rested enough to feel and surprisingly anger fuels its own fire."

MurPHy · Post by **MurPHy** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:09 am

Anyways, to make up for the veering off-topic, I have a Arisaka Type 99 bolt action rifle that's been sporterized to fire .300 Savage, discuss. Yeah, that should do the trick.

Congrajulations! you have the only serviceable small arm used by the japs during WWII. The Type 99 was based on the Mauser model 1891 (I think) which is pre-WWI arms technology. The same is true for virtually all of their small arms. No wonder they lost!

We don't use racist epithets here. -- OTB

PerroViejo · Post by **PerroViejo** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:46 am

From what I understand from watching a History channel special on Japanese firearms from WWII, most of the infantry weapons that they fielded were designed by one man. The documentary went as far as to call him "The Japanese John M. Browning", sadly I cannot remember what the fellow's name was.

Worthy of note are some of the -rather quircky- weapons he designed:

:arrow: A light squad automatic weapon that fed on "clips" identical to those used by, regular infantrymen. The idea being that the machinegunner's weapon could be fed by all the men in the squad.
So that leaves you with a LSAW that could only do bursts of 6 rounds at a time. To top things off, the feed box was a top fed affair with a metal lid pushing the clips towards the firing mechanism; Needless to say the problems with debris and even water getting into the action made it impractical at best.

:arrow: A bolt-action rifle outfitted with sights for AA firing. I believe it was an incarnation of the Arisaka series. It was chambered for a 6mm x ? round. This rifle also sported a 'monopod' to allow the brace the weapon for Air Defense. How feasable is it for that kind of weapon to be used against aircraft with any degree of effectiveness? Yeah, I though so.

:arrow: There was also a bolt action carabine for paratroopers, that rather than having a retractable stock (Like the U.S.'s M3 SMG or M1 Carabine) had a full wooden stock BUT broke down into two pieces: The bolt and trigger assembly together with the stock and the barrel and sights compromissing the forward part. The rifleman was supposed to remove the weapon from it's protective case, screw the halves together, load a clip into the magazine, cycle the bolt and then be ready for action.

Thank the Gods of War that Japanese bladecraft is parallel to none. Too bad for them that it takes more than swords to win wars these days.

Neon Dingo · Post by **Neon Dingo** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:05 am

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... 7_heaven_1

Good read about how the AK-47 is favored over the M-4/M-16 rifles in Iraq.

InvisibleMonkey · Post by **InvisibleMonkey** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:15 am

I would think that the would like it more cause it's easier to get a hold of. It seems to me the AK is a weapon used mostly around Europe, so I am guessing they are easier to get a hold of then the M4 or M-16

Neon Dingo · Post by **Neon Dingo** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:30 am

Nobody in Europe uses AK-47s. Everyone in Europe uses 5.56mm assault rifles. 7.62mm was snuffed a while ago.

AK-47s are used primarily by Asian countries (includes the Middle East) and used in Central American countries.

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:22 am

Any American soldier with a solid head on their shoulders will tell you they would rather carry a M14 and M1911A1 over a Ak47, M16, or M9.

InvisibleMonkey · Post by **InvisibleMonkey** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:29 am

If I was an American soldier I would prefer the AK when fighting in the desert, like in Iraq, due to the low jammage. But since I don't have the experience with any of those weapons I really can't say which I would prefer overall.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:53 am

Hammer wrote:...real world combat and the risks of using an enemy weapon?

How much do you want to bet that this shit will go on 'til there's a fratricide, then there'll be a huge farce of a show w/some Article 15s and maybe even courts martial that mysteriously leave the officers that gave the green light?

I was never all that comfortable w/officers in general, but when I ended up in an S-3 shop and got to see those capricious bastards up close and personal, I really learned to fear and loathe them. Field grades in particular...

OTB

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:00 am

How can you "fight the power" without a car? Or if the Man already provides everything you need? A new computer you do not need so that's not going to happen when the workers have their revolution. Of course this revolution will be localized in your local Burger King because Ted the manager made you work overtime because that idiot Steve didn't come into work, nevermind you're getting time and a half for it.

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:11 am

How much do you want to bet that this shit will go on 'til there's a fratricide, then there'll be a huge farce of a show w/some Article 15s and maybe even courts martial that mysteriously leave the officers that gave the green light?

Depends on the Officers, the ones who came from places like West-Point were always arrogant sons-of-bitches, but enlisted men who climbed the rank to reach Lieutenant were never really bad guys. However to some extent I think Officers should be both feared and expected and not necessarily loathed.

Also I'm not sure I understand your question OTB, are you talking about Officers killing their own men on purpose or Officers accidently killing their own men? or something else.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:44 am

Hammer wrote:Depends on the Officers, the ones who came from places like West-Point were always arrogant sons-of-bitches, but enlisted men who climbed the rank to reach Lieutenant were never really bad guys. However to some extent I think Officers should be both feared and expected and not necessarily loathed.

For the most part I'd agree w/you, but -- as always -- I met exceptions to both of those rules. One of the best officers I ever met was a West Point grad. Some of the worst micro-managing sons-of-bitches I met were OCS (probably they didn't trust EMs because they had been there themselves).

When I say "best/good" officers, I'm referring to those that know how to put info out, then let their NCOs take over and get the men to accomplish the mission. I'm not referring to officers as "good" in the sense that they're "cool", like having you over to dinner and letting you fuck their wife, or something.

The incident that stands out the most that literally scared me when dealing w/field grades was an O-5, my squadron commander, literally throwing a tantrum because E Trp. had backed up a bit, gotten to a better position, and blasted the OPFOR rather than simply dying in place like the squadron commander had envisioned it. This was a training mission, but I thought, "Holy shit! This guy's having a tantrum because something didn't go his way and a bunch of his people didn't die unnecessarily!" Remember, "Battle Focused Training", "Train as you fight!" and all that.

There were also some other things that I had to sit through, like the same squadron commander telling the XO how to make himself look good on vehicle readiness reports. Never mind that half our tanks and Brads were broke any day of the week, on paper they had 90+% operational readiness. They were basically cannibalizing vehicles to get up to 90%, then they'd swap parts out again for other reports since cannabalizing is frowned on.

This shit scares me because these people were just trying to advance their careers and people like my little three-chevron-wearing ass might have to pay a price for it someday. You know, like coming home wrapped in a bag, or with one dangling from my innards.

Hammer wrote:Also I'm not sure I understand your question OTB, are you talking about Officers killing their own men on purpose or Officers accidently killing their own men? or something else.

Sorry, looking back on my post it was rather unclear. What I was trying to say is that you have a LTC in that article saying that everything is all well and good w/the troops using AKs. However, as soon as there's a fratricide because of it -- he'll be backpeddling and looking to hang someone -- anyone, just as long as it isn't him -- out to dry.

OTB

Garf · Post by **Garf** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:08 am

I've owned an AK-47, 5 point pre-ban, from China, and another AK from Romania.

I must say they sure don't seem as accurate as the M-14 I rented once. Though I only had 1 hour to play around with it I was able to shoot it up quiet a bit.

I've since sold my AK-47s. I own several mausers now, SKSs, various hand-guns (including the hard to find never been fired S&W .32 revolver), and my pride-and-joy a 44-40 lever action Winchester rifle owned since my grandfather.

But anyway, I'd say letting any US Army infantrymen use the AK isn't smart. It just rises friendly fire cases. The AK has a special sound.

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:48 am

The incident that stands out the most that literally scared me when dealing w/field grades was an O-5, my squadron commander, literally throwing a tantrum because E Trp. had backed up a bit, gotten to a better position, and blasted the OPFOR rather than simply dying in place like the squadron commander had envisioned it. This was a training mission, but I thought, "Holy shit! This guy's having a tantrum because something didn't go his way and a bunch of his people didn't die unnecessarily!" Remember, "Battle Focused Training", "Train as you fight!" and all that.

No shit? that's bad, I've shit similar to that but never anything as drastic during my times as an infantryman, most of that shit went away when I finally got in to 3/75th. The "by the letter" people are the worst, as you are probably aware soldiers are not supposed to carry sidearms unless issued to them and if they are issued or authorized to carry sidearms they must be U.S. Government issue not private owned. Same with certain gear and equipment. Well I was fortunate enough to come across an old G.I. M1911A1 in an Armory while I was temporarily stationed in Korea, I bought a buncha new springs, extractors, firing pins, and ejectors from Wilson Combat and fixed that beauty up and used it as my authorized sidearm when I was in the Rangers. Everything was fine and dandy until this cock sucker actually CAUGHT me using the damn thing on a shooting range and threatened to take action if I did not return it to the armory and have another M9 issued to me. Naturally I listened to the dayho and returned the weapon my footloc....errr I mean the armory. Anyway to make a long story short I managed to get the weapon home and managed to carry it with me until the end of my service with the help of a few friends carrying separate parts.

Alright I got on a rant there, the moral of the story is some COs tend to follow the book way too much when it comes to small pathetic shit, like Irish pennants, gear, and weapons. And if something does not go their way we all catch hell, this is in the end a danger to the U.S. Military and all the men in it because it causes hate for "The Man" in charge and eventually insubordination. I don't know what the hell they teach those people at West Point but maybe one of their courses should actually be about being a soldier.

This shit scares me because these people were just trying to advance their careers and people like my little three-chevron-wearing ass might have to pay a price for it someday. You know, like coming home wrapped in a bag, or with one dangling from my innards

Well the enlisted man has always been short-dicked, that's life in the military and will continue to happen until the end of time. However the Officers who go to West Point are obviously in the military for a career and look at it just like they would look at any other job, the thing is it's NOT just like any other job. West Point seems to fail in the leadership department in that it does not touch done on the realities of being a soldier and the hardships they must all endure. That is why I think most men who became Officers by starting out as enlisted men make better Officers than the ones who graduate from West Point because they read Sun Tzu and have rich parents.

Sorry, looking back on my post it was rather unclear. What I was trying to say is that you have a LTC in that article saying that everything is all well and good w/the troops using AKs. However, as soon as there's a fratricide because of it -- he'll be backpeddling and looking to hang someone -- anyone, just as long as it isn't him -- out to dry.

Oooh ok I got ya, just like if I did something stupid with my M1911A1 or was caught by the brass for having it the CO who let me carry it would do anything in his power to clear his name and have my ass or the armorer's ass burned.

(If my posts make no sense forgive me, I am hella tired right now)

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:33 am

Who'd want to fire an AK, it's ugly as shit. Everyone knows the most well-dressed and handsome army win.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:24 pm

Silliness with Hammer and Invisible Monkey wasterlanded.

Viktor · Post by **Viktor** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:13 pm

Neon Dingo wrote:Nobody in Europe uses AK-47s. Everyone in Europe uses 5.56mm assault rifles. 7.62mm was snuffed a while ago.

AK-47s are used primarily by Asian countries (includes the Middle East) and used in Central American countries.

Since when? The continent of Europe includes all the former Warsaw Pact countries and all the former Yugoslavian states which, apart from the FSR use AK 47 or AKM derivatives chambered for the M43 7.62x39mm Soviet round. Most FSR combat units now have AK-74 (some elite units havin AN-94s...) although the main Russian small arms plant, Izmash, has made most of the "100 series" AKs in 7.62x39, 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 NATO in the hope of winning export deals with countries already using these calibres.

Most of the "AK-47s" seen in Asia are actually Chinese Type 56's and even the PRC are starting to make their own weapon designs as seen in the fielding of the QBZ-95 bullpup rifle in 5.8x42mm. Apart from North Korea, most Far East Asian countries are building their own 5.56mm NATO weapons systems including Japan's Type 89, Singapore's SAR-80 and SAR-21 and not forgetting South Korea's Daewoo K1 and K2 rifles.

The US also sold off a whole heap of surplus M16 and M16A1s to friendly nations out in this part of the world, so you're more likely to see one of these than a real AK out East these days...

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:40 am

This topic has outlived it usefulness and is now in the domain of the spammer.

I will now engage the venerable spam key.

OTB