Half-Life 2 benchmarks released, trailer inside.

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:28 am

STALKER's looking better and better to me every day.

Banko · Post by **Banko** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:40 am

smiely the 5900 doesn't take up 2 slots the 5800 did

Neon Dingo · Post by **Neon Dingo** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:02 am

STALKER's looking better and better to me every day.

STALKER is better. It's much more inventive than HL2 is, by all means. Definitely will have more replay value and better multiplayer (not counting HL2 mods). It has better graphics. Not as popular. Popularity ruins games sometimes, especially when you're listening to a jock asshole talk about how "tight Half-Life is but it's soooo hard to get past that part where the emergency lasers are cutting into walls and vending machines."

STALKER will beat HL2 in every aspect.

I've easily converted 3 friends from the HL2 religion to STALKER with just one simple trailer. I suggest those who haven't seen the trailers for STALKER go to www.stalker-game.com now.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:45 am

Well, if I absolutely had to choose, I have to say I'd go with HL2. I think STALKER looks mighty cool too, and I'm sure I'll end up grabbing both, but HL2 might bring an improved (and hopefully fixed) version of TeamFortress with it, which makes me very happy.

Nuclear Gandhi · Post by **Nuclear Gandhi** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:42 am

Well, what mostly got me into the game was actually reading about it. Their enemy AI system is unbelievable, I can't believe it hasn't be implemented that much before.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:07 am

God you people are incredible some times.

Versions

First off, there is only one version of HL2...he was simplying referring to the distribution, hence the term SKU. This doesn't mean different games.

Game Patches/Updates

Second, you guys were poking fun at the idea of version upgrading/patching. You should be thrilled to have a developer willing to work to improve the community even after all those years to make a secrue online game experience. The game ITSELF didn't need patching, it was all the online hacks and cheats, etc needing fixing. A developer constantly updating their software is not to be seen as a bad thing unless the initial game was unplayable and then only became so after many updates...then thats just dirty.

Video Cards

Both cards are solid cards. A few frames a second here and there is silly to proclaim a victor. Also, are you going to play just ONE game on said Raedeon? 5900 is still a superior card :

Toms Hardware

Now, the FX 5900 is able to outpace the Radeon 9800 PRO in all relevant benchmarks and can reclaim the performance throne for NVIDIA. The card offers unrivaled FSAA speed combined with very good anisotropic filtering image quality and performance, thanks to the new Detonator FX driver, giving it a comfortable lead over its rival. Only the quality of its ordered-grid FSAA implementation remains inferior to that of ATi's card, a disadvantage it can more than make up for in sheer speed.

Two Slots

The 5900 requires two slots.

Stalker vs. HL2

Stalker, I fear, is going to suffer from lack of focus and that intangible 'something' that a lot of first person shooter developers seem to have regarding their combat feel'. It is a shooter first of all, and competing in a well established first person community is tough. It will be a beautiful game, but HL2 is just simply to rich in detail and focus. This is a simple fact by anyone merely playing HL1, so there is little specualtion in 2's quality short of Valve completely doing something drastically different...and they're not. I mean hell, YOU guys are all about story this and story that...Stalker has a tiny if mostly non-existent story to support their non-linear world and resource collection. HL is ALL about immersing the player in story.

HL1 still has AI that rivals ANYTHING out there now, and I'm not being dramatic. AI is the one area that STILL fucking blows in nearly every game out there. No One Lives Forever and Thief are the only games I can think of that I found the AI to be remarkable. Call of Duty looks do some interesting partial script AI, but still nothing on par with Half Life.

The committment to the mod community is unparalelled, and the Source engine from a techincal standpoint is absolutely incredible. Content creation with full WYSIWYG support from XSI, yet still offering exportation from Max and Maya. We're coming into an era where developers now work to predict where technology 'will' be and then shoot for support of the high end video card market to really show people that their hard spent money was worth it, while still maintaining support for those with less than stellar machines. Thats a rock solid developer. To say the textures are 'bleh'...um, yea okay...no one else saw ANY of the other videos of this game.

Trends

I have a feeling the whole "its cool now to deride the game everyone is drooling over" is starting to happen. QUICK! THE BANDWAGON...ITS PASSING US! JUMP ON NOW!!! Silly children.

Salutations

Cheers

Nuclear Gandhi · Post by **Nuclear Gandhi** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:16 pm

EvoG wrote:God you people are incredible some times.

Versions

First off, there is only one version of HL2...he was simplying referring to the distribution, hence the term SKU. This doesn't mean different games.

We know that.

EvoG wrote:Stalker vs. HL2

Stalker, I fear, is going to suffer from lack of focus and that intangible 'something' that a lot of first person shooter developers seem to have regarding their combat feel'. It is a shooter first of all, and competing in a well established first person community is tough. It will be a beautiful game, but HL2 is just simply to rich in detail and focus. This is a simple fact by anyone merely playing HL1, so there is little specualtion in 2's quality short of Valve completely doing something drastically different...and they're not. I mean hell, YOU guys are all about story this and story that...Stalker has a tiny if mostly non-existent story to support their non-linear world and resource collection. HL is ALL about immersing the player in story.

HL1 still has AI that rivals ANYTHING out there now, and I'm not being dramatic. AI is the one area that STILL fucking blows in nearly every game out there. No One Lives Forever and Thief are the only games I can think of that I found the AI to be remarkable. Call of Duty looks do some interesting partial script AI, but still nothing on par with Half Life.

The committment to the mod community is unparalelled, and the Source engine from a techincal standpoint is absolutely incredible. Content creation with full WYSIWYG support from XSI, yet still offering exportation from Max and Maya. We're coming into an era where developers now work to predict where technology 'will' be and then shoot for support of the high end video card market to really show people that their hard spent money was worth it, while still maintaining support for those with less than stellar machines. Thats a rock solid developer. To say the textures are 'bleh'...um, yea okay...no one else saw ANY of the other videos of this game.

Trends

I have a feeling the whole "its cool now to deride the game everyone is drooling over" is starting to happen. QUICK! THE BANDWAGON...ITS PASSING US! JUMP ON NOW!!! Silly children.

About the story, no, you can't be sure until you actually play the game. It may be much deeper than you imagine. No one knew what to expect from Half-Life before it came out, if you can recall. It was expected to be another one of those DOOMesque shoot 'em ups. And they were wrong.

And when I speak of the AI system, I speak of the little controller in the sky affecting their movements. They are driven by personal goals, not scripted events. It's the ultimate realism. I suggest you, EvoG, read more about their omniscient AI being. The reason the AI is good is because of the complete chaos and randomness that can happen. Which makes a unique experience every time you play, thus increasing the replayability ten fold.

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:13 pm

EvoG wrote:Video Cards

Both cards are solid cards. A few frames a second here and there is silly to proclaim a victor. Also, are you going to play just ONE game on said Raedeon? 5900 is still a superior card :

Toms Hardware

Now, the FX 5900 is able to outpace the Radeon 9800 PRO in all relevant benchmarks and can reclaim the performance throne for NVIDIA. The card offers unrivaled FSAA speed combined with very good anisotropic filtering image quality and performance, thanks to the new Detonator FX driver, giving it a comfortable lead over its rival. Only the quality of its ordered-grid FSAA implementation remains inferior to that of ATi's card, a disadvantage it can more than make up for in sheer speed.

You're still a dumbfuck, Steve! Tom's Hardware hasn't been credible in years. Those benchmarks on all the other sites out there speak for themselves, the 9600 Pro, a $150 ATI card spanks the fuck out of the high end nVidia card on DX9 applications that use PS2.0 specs.

We know this from FutureMark, Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness, Halo PC Beta, as well as Half-Life 2. Those things all use PS2.0, the DirctX 9 version of the pixel shader code, and in every one of them, the nVidia cards roll over and die on the frame rate.

Those new drivers nVidia's been bragging about won't help much either, and there's already a few articles on the subject that point out that image quality is tossed in favor of a couple of frames per second, which isn't even enough to make a dent in the lead even the lowest R350 core Radeon has at this point on those pixel shader 2.0 applications. See here:

http://www.gamersdepot.com/hardware/vid ... 50/001.htm

BlackDog wrote:Also HL2 *is* delayed since the benchmark is supposed to be released on September 30th - and I highly doubt they count the full game as a "benchmark". But you never know. The way I see it though, it won't be out till Holiday 2003. That'd give nVidia time to get better work with Valve to optimize the NV3 code for better performance as well as a bit better graphics for nVidia users who can't really waste money on an ATI card b/c Valve and ATI are in bed in an underhanded deal.

It's not Valve's code, nor is it nVidia's drivers. It's nVidia's hardware, period.

That's what that FutureMark controversy was over. That's what was pointed out in the Halo PC beta benchmarks. That's what was pointed out in the benchmarks using Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness.

Before Half-Life 2, no one really gave a rat's ass because those weren't highly anticipated games. However, the first highly anticipated game that comes along that uses them, all hall breaks loose.

Banko wrote:Smiley, as I recall ATi got busted for cheating in bechmarks too. Also if you notice, valve and ati are together. doom 3 and nvidia are together. If you look at the doom 3 benchmarks NVidia is out performing ATi in those, valve are just greedy whores.

This isn't true. The fact of the matter is that Carmack stated that the reason nVidia cards are faster in the Doom 3 benchmarks is because he only uses the 16bit floating point precision of nVidia's pixel shaders. The ATI Radeon follows the DirectX 9 standard, which uses 24bit precision shaders. If you use the high precision mode on the GeForceFX cards, which is 32bit, the ATI R350 core cards spank the GeForceFX line.

It's like saying the Voodoo3 is the fastest card back in it's day because it only had 16bit color, even though most games had 32bit color at the time.

BlackDog · Post by **BlackDog** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:24 pm

EvoG wrote:God you people are incredible some times.
Two Slots

The 5900 requires two slots.

Only half-correct. The 5900 ULTRA requires 2 slots.

The non-ultra is only ONE.

Also as for ATI: the 9800's run horribly hot. The nVidia 5900's do NOT. That is also something to think about.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:38 pm

Gandhi, as for the story, we can be as pretty sure as what the developers of the game have told us. They have explicitly said that short of 6 - 8 specific points in the game that help move the 'story' along, the game is entirely free form. If they change that prior to release, great. Otherwise thats what its going to be. We all know what HL1 gave us, so as I said, we have great reason to believe 2 will give us more of the same if not more. Just to clarify, I WANT Stalker to be immersive and fun...I'm not a 'one or the other' guy...I buy every game that comes out, so believe me, I hope its fun.

As for you AI comment...um, okay. I wouldn't be going on about chaos and randomness as much as much as I would about consistent AI behaviour and repsonse to stimuli...believeable human behaviour. First off you're not going to get a 10 fold increase in replayablility, IF you attribute that to just AI, because the AI is only going to go so deep. The fuzzy logic will amount to ( Random Number : Go Here : See Player : Player Good/Evil? : Am I hurt? : Do I have enough ammo? : Fight ). Due to the fact that you may cross paths at different points in the game or may or may not fight the same guy in another game does not make for a deep simulation. For the AI in phoenix, I'm basing my goals for the NPC's on needs and wants, and then going through a tree of decisions, using internalilzation and sight and sound stimuli. If I make the AI's visible choice too ambiguous, then he can do all the thinking in the world...the player isn't going to see it. This is where 'player stimuli' comes in. Now I have to make those same choices, but reflecting the context of what is going on in the game world, which includes, say, the player walking into a room with his weapon drawn, and clearly have the NPC respond in a way the player can clearly understand. Same goes for combat. As with HL and Theif, you want to see the NPC drawing reasonable conclusions, not based on chaos, but based on stimuli and rational thought. When he does something you think you would do, then the AI has demonstrated a level of believable human intelligence. Thief had actually very simplistic AI, and took simple AI decisions and within context and displayed a broad enough response to make it feel like it was thinking. ( Noise in Range : Say "Is anybody there?" : Walk to Noise : Play LOOK AROUND CAREFULLY animation ).

Saint, you are an excitable fuck-tard. Stop following me please...I get enough of you on ICQ. READ WHAT I WROTE. Who cares. Both are fast ass cards, and I'm suspect to your measure of what 'spank the fuck' means to you. There is hardly MAJOR ass spanking going on here. My Vette SPANKS THE FUCK out of most cars ( 0 - 60 ), but up against like the Jaguar XK8 I'll still win, but by a smaller margin. Certainly not SPANKING, but still faster. Give me a break you bombastic wind bag.

Blarg

Smiley · Post by **Smiley** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:48 pm

Also as for ATI: the 9800's run horribly hot. The nVidia 5900's do NOT. That is also something to think about.

So..? Anyone with a bad air-flow in their case deserves to let half their components die.

as for the ati/nvidia discussion, I repeat my question:

Why the f*ck should ATI-users have to wait for the HL2 release, because Nvidia are fiddling shit instead of getting their drivers done?

Evo, post a pic o' your vette =)

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:01 pm

hope my computer can run HL2

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:34 pm

Hey Smiley...I'll do like a Team Phoenix Bio page with all the team members cars.

Cheers

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:42 pm

Hammer, your machine ROCKS, so STFU and be glad you can play HL2 and then some

Smiley · Post by **Smiley** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:33 pm

Hey Smiley...I'll do like a Team Phoenix Bio page with all the team members cars.

Deal!

=)

What are your specs hammer..?
The only thing I remember is that you have an ATI card...

Hammer · Post by **Hammer** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:11 am

Well I stutter in Planetside some times so I begin to wonder. Like for no apparent reason I get 20fps standing in a field, but then some times I get 120 in a heated battle.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 3:07 am

Hammer, thats more than likely your connection, or rather, the game lag online. Run something single player to get an idea of your performance, but rest assured, what you told me you have rocks, so there's no reason for it not to perform short of a serious problem ( which would be more evident than not ).

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 4:39 am

EvoG wrote:Saint, you are an excitable fuck-tard.

You're a mamby-pamby twit-monkey!

Stop following me please...

I replied to three people! Now, I know you get jealous if I don't just reply to you personally, but there's no need to start ignoring the rest of the people I replied to!

I get enough of you on ICQ.

Speaking of which, where are those damned screenshots, Captain Vaporware?

READ WHAT I WROTE. Who cares. Both are fast ass cards, and I'm suspect to your measure of what 'spank the fuck' means to you. There is hardly MAJOR ass spanking going on here.

Let me see, this is a thread about Half-Life 2, isn't it? That means we're talking about in the context of playing that particular game(or any game that uses the DX9 pixel shader specs, apparently), which card is the fastest! Your contention that the GeForceFX is a fast ass card is highly dubious considering is gets utterly whipped by the budget ATI R350 core card.

My Vette SPANKS THE FUCK out of most cars ( 0 - 60 ), but up against like the Jaguar XK8 I'll still win, but by a smaller margin. Certainly not SPANKING, but still faster. Give me a break you bombastic wind bag.

Street light to street light is only for those over-challenged nimrods that can't handle shifting gears and steering at the same time, you club footed, superfilous nipple biter!

Neon Dingo · Post by **Neon Dingo** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 4:48 am

I read that a high-end GeForce 4 Ti can run HL2 better than a high-end GeForce FX, albeit with lackluster textures and whatnot. Still, it will get better frames.

Nuclear Gandhi · Post by **Nuclear Gandhi** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:07 am

A demo isn't even out EvoG. So you and I cannot make assumptions on even the AI. You would have to see how it works in the enviroment.

I haven't found ANYTHING talking about the individual enemy AI. Only stuff about the world controller AI. So yeah, until the demo. (That is if there even IS a demo.)