Religious Opinions (Again)

Nuclear Gandhi · Post by **Nuclear Gandhi** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:42 am

Hahah, yes!

ExtremeDrinker · Post by **ExtremeDrinker** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:50 am

Gandhi..That's what I've always understood Nihilism to be...I know people who claim Nihilism..And that's how they explain it..

But....Neon over here isn't telling it like that..Instead he's doing the polar opposite..I'm not sure if he even knows what Nihilism is, or if he's just some choad that saw Nihilists in Big Lebowski and thought "We believe in nossink" sounded cool.

Nuclear Gandhi · Post by **Nuclear Gandhi** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:55 am

Well then in that case, would you agree that Nihilism is not a contradiction of itself if my description is the correct version?

ExtremeDrinker · Post by **ExtremeDrinker** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:02 am

Nihilism as described by Neon is a contradiction. Nihilism as you describe, and my friends describe is not a contradiction, and could be completely plausible.

I'm gonna rant about Neon, now.

If I'm reading him correctly, he's bantering on about how worthless everything is. He wants Fallout as a reality, but he won't accept the point iohkis made about Fallout having a society of it's own. He mentions nothing about the rebirth of society through destruction of the old...He just mentions destruction and a simple life being simple people doing simple things because it's more difficult.

Nihilism (the way he describes it) is a thing of the past....Cavemen and early humans were partial Nihilists...Since then, we've worked to create the society we have today. He needs to quit bitching about how life is stupid because he has food, shelter, and clothing...And he has technology to keep him busy..He has parents that may or may not be supportive, but they still raised him.

He's got a warped perspective of the whole thing...If you think you need a hard life to make you happy, go live in the forest and hunt deer with your bare hands. What would be the point in having weapons, afterall?

If he had to live the life he is imagining (after living his current life in modern society), he'd be dead after a month. Face it, Neon...You're a pampered little asshat, and the world is the way it is to protect people like you from the life we might all be living had no one cared or had faith enough to build our society.

No offence, of course. I'm just in a ranting mood, and you brought it up. Heh.

Neon Dingo · Post by **Neon Dingo** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:06 am

No, I wasn't saying abandoning technology was the crux of Nihilism. I was just saying how our prosperity has caused us to grow and swell to become fat lazy bastards that don't want to think for themselves.

When did I ever say this was Nihilism?

I think we started diverging into different shit unrelated to Nihilism and I was just generally ranting about modern society's laziness.

I wholly agree with the definition Gandhi posted. Sorry for not being clear?

If you look at my last post I posted a definition that contained basically what Gandhi's had. I just bolded a different part of it. I probably editted that while you were posting after me so you probably didn't read it.

ExtremeDrinker · Post by **ExtremeDrinker** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:08 am

Yeah..It wasn't very clear at all....It all seemed like you were talking about Nihilism....If I'd known you were talking about how we're all becoming fat lazy and stupid, I would have just agreed.

Also, I've edited my posts as others have been editing theirs just to try to keep up. The post above yours had an edit after reading your more recent post.

Sorry about the confusion. You got me on a bad day.

Franz Schubert · Post by **Franz Schubert** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:10 am

ExtremeDrinker, I find it hard to believe that you've studied religion for several years. I found your "summaries" to be very uninformed.

ExtremeDrinker wrote:Atheists are idiots...They don't know what they think until someone else tells them.

Honestly, is this a joke? I can't even comment on how ridiculous this is.

Ghetto Goose wrote:My opinion is, whatever makes you happy, as long as it doesn't make someone else unhappy.

"unhappy"? I see that you're conveniently disregarding the horrible atrocities committed by the church over the last 2 thousand years...

If someone asked me to explain to you all why I am an atheist, I would probably cite all the evidence (and there is a lot of it, over the years) that Catholicism was simply invented as a way to give a FEW people power over the MASSES. The evidence is there... you don't have to look hard for it.

Actually if you think about it, the whole thing really is genius. As people began to stop believing in the Roman gods, they began to think "Wait a minute... if Zeus, in a fit rage, didn't throw that lightning bolt, then who did?" All of a sudden, the Church was there, and had an answer ready. All you had to do was just hand over your donation, and they'd tell you how you can be saved.

One issue that isn't brought up very much is the whole Purgatory thing. I forgot exactly when it was invented (and I'm too lazy to google it right now) but it was a LONG time after Christianity was invented (I think it was before the Inquisition, but after the massive pagan-witch burnings.) Anyway, the Church's influence was at a low point, so the concept of Purgatory was introduced. Basically it goes like this:

"When you die, you don't in fact go straight to Heaven. Since everyone is a sinner, everyone has to go into a limbo period first, which could be from a few years to a few centuries depending on your sins, where you simply hang there doing nothing until your sins are 'purged' from you, hence the term 'Purgatory'."

Now, somehow, the Church can let people avoid this waiting period in Purgatory because God granted them the power to do so. However, the Church would only do this for you if you paid them a 'service fee', which was an extreme amount of money.

Of course this prompts all the nobles and rich folk all over Europe to flock to their nearest Church and pay, thus boosting the Church's coffers considerably.

PS:

ExtremeDrinker wrote:Why do nihilists even have computers?

Ok I have a suggestion. Everybody stop discussing Nihilism, because NONE of you (with the exception of dingo) have any fucking clue what you're talking about.

iohkus wrote:"Destruction is a form of creation" - Donnie Darko?

kthx?

Bye.

Nuclear Gandhi · Post by **Nuclear Gandhi** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:14 am

"Destruction is a form of creation" goes along the lines of one of the main points of Nihilism.

I'll say it again, something out of nothing.

iohkus · Post by **iohkus** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:14 am

Franz Schubert · Post by **Franz Schubert** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:17 am

iohkus wrote:Hi!

Would someone ban him please?

iohkus · Post by **iohkus** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:17 am

How bout you eat your own scat?

ExtremeDrinker · Post by **ExtremeDrinker** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:22 am

I have studied religion...In fact, studying religion is a requirement at the college I attend, and I've clepped out of the classes because I was previously informed on the subjects.

I don't really have to prove I've studied religion..

As for uninformed...My opinions are not uninformed..My opinions have been formed through the many experiences with idiots.

My opinion on Atheists...I'm sticking to it. Atheists don't believe in God...Because they think the church fucked up the world. I believe that.

I also feel that religion is the cause of all the world's problems. That doesn't mean there is no god..It just means people are stupid, and they use religion to make them feel the bad shit they do is right.

Most Atheists I've talked to, from highschool students, to college professors have had really messed up ideas of Atheism. "I don't believe in god, but I believe there's something out there" is probably the most common thing I've heard...That's Agnosticism...But they claim Atheism just because they don't know any better.

I've also heard "I don't believe in God because there is no tangible proof" That's a perfectly good explanation..I RARELY hear that. When I do, the person gets my respect, especially if they elaborate. If I hear some stupid explanation, I judge the person accordingly.

I get mostly stupid explanations.

Nuclear Gandhi · Post by **Nuclear Gandhi** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:29 am

Well ED, you can find idiotic Christians and idiotic Atheists. The inverse also.

Always the case. Just depends on the person.

Neon Dingo · Post by **Neon Dingo** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:32 am

(Yes, going back on subject)

I agree. I honestly see no point in allowing something of which that has no proof of existence to take control of the reigns in your life.

Oftentimes the type of people I encounter who are "Atheists" in High School that have malformed opinions hate Christianity (specifically Christianity, they leave out everything else) because of some stupid personal problem. It's always something stupid like their parents forced them to go to church when they could be out skateboarding with their friends. Either that, or they simply bought into the trendy death metal bullshit that makes it cool to be blasphemous.

I usually see these types of people easily revert back to religion in a heartbeat when they're in a trying time in their life. A girl I knew was an adamant Atheist and she went on a Fellowship of Christian Athletes ski trip and she came back as a Christian. I'm not sure how that worked out, but it's pretty scary when one week you know someone who will raise their hand in the middle of class to discredit Christianity and then the next week praising it. She's also very pro-animal rights and a vegitarian. Is it just me, or is being a vegitarian and a Christian inherently contradictory?

I also got in a bunch of trouble in Government when I stated that it is contradictory to be a homosexual and be a Christian. Someone yelled out "There's gay churches!"

What?

Lately I've been meeting more and more people who believe in karma. Hell, I even know a few so-called "Christians" that believe in karma. I don't even think that's possible.

Franz Schubert · Post by **Franz Schubert** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:33 am

My bad Extreme... I was probably just pissed cause of the way you said all atheists are confused idiots.

ExtremeDrinker wrote:I've also heard "I don't believe in God because there is no tangible proof" That's a perfectly good explanation..I RARELY hear that.

With me, I don't even bother refuting proof. I look at the Church and Christianity as a whole, and I see right through all the crap. I don't know if that simple answer gains your respect, but that's why I don't believe in God.

Franz Schubert · Post by **Franz Schubert** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:42 am

Neon Dingo wrote:Hell, I even know a few so-called "Christians" that believe in karma.

How the hell can someone claim to be a Christian, but not believe the Bible word for word?

"Well, I'm a Christian, but only when it suits me."

...fucking hypocrites...

ExtremeDrinker · Post by **ExtremeDrinker** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:42 am

Speaking of animals and vegetarians...My favorite quote of all time comes from Hammer:

I'm part of PETA, well, the fringe group known as the "People for the Eating of Tasy Animals. I think the animal rights group needs to realize that animals really have no rights other than to entertain and feed humans. It's called being on top of the fucking food chain, I climbed up to the top to eat meat not a fucking blade of grass.

As for people converting at the drop of a hat...It happens all the time...My old girlfriend (The Jehovas Whitness) converted to Agnosticism to make it okay to marry me...I don't know why she did it, but I think it had to do with spite she had for her mother. Now it's been 5 years since I left her, and last I saw she's a drug addicted bible banging whore...No..Really...Drugs, sex, and the Bible all together.

iohkus · Post by **iohkus** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:14 am

lolz.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:28 am

ExtremeDrinker wrote:My opinion on Atheists...I'm sticking to it. Atheists don't believe in God...Because they think the church fucked up the world. I believe that.[Emphasis OTB's]

Why do you tack that little bit on the end? When you state "X is what I believe" all you've done is stated something about yourself, and you've closed down rational debate. It's the same shit w/"many/most/all/some scholars believe" that you see on the History Channel all the time.

Ryno wrote:Most Atheists I've talked to, from highschool students, to college professors have had really messed up ideas of Atheism. "I don't believe in god, but I believe there's something out there" is probably the most common thing I've heard...That's Agnosticism...But they claim Atheism just because they don't know any better.

Actually, it's you that have messed up ideas about Atheism, ED. The term comes from the Greek a- "without or apart from" and theos "god/divinity". In the strictest sense it really just means living a life w/o or apart from god(s). It is not the disavowal of god(s).

Agnosticism, on the other hand, is the position that knowledge of god(s) is impossible. It does not mean "I just haven't made my mind up" as many people would like to think.

Really, the problem that this thread has is that it isn't concentrating on religion, but rather its followers. If you're going to discuss religion, you have to stick to the ideas/tenets of those religions. Those, however, are beyond the sphere of rational debate, so any keystrokes spent on that (1337 sp34k or not) are wasted. On the other hand, if you speak of the followers you're going to run into lots of problems, for instance people claiming to be things that they are not. I've met "atheists" who are really just rebelling against their upbringing and do -- deep down -- believe in Christian cosmology, or something very much akin to it. On the other hand, I've met Christians that go on about the power of faith, but when push comes to shove, they run to a doctor rather than relying on the laying on of hands.

So basically this thread ends up pillorying various groups for the hypocracy of its alleged adherents. That is to say, it isn't much more than a collection of anecdotes -- some very amusing, I must say -- about one of humanity's most basic foibles. (Then again, the concept of "foible" is metaphysical, and therefore personal.)

To sum it up, this thread could be summed up as: "NEWS FLASH: PEOPLE ARE HYPOCRITES!!!"

OTB

PS Regarding Nihilism. One of the things that has several of you barking at each other is that there are different types of Nihilism. The same word in philosophical, political or some other sense will set off alarm buzzers when people are fixated on one definition. Sort of like the difference between "idealist" taken in its common sense, and one in the philosophical (which is the position that reality is largely a function of mind).

Viktor · Post by **Viktor** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:30 am

I've decided to worship Hammer, lest He decideth to cometh down from His mountain fortress and smote my ass with His Holy BAR.