I think there ought to be such character types in the new game. (suicide bombers with regeneration perks, enhanced self-healing abilities etc.)
perhaps, either the ghouls, mutants or humans might have formed suicide terrorist squads to exert their political identity and self-determination in the Wasteland.
ALLAHU AKBAR!
:badgrin:
Suicide Bombers
Err, ok? Are you one of those retards that got an illuminating idea from FOPOS?
Besides, what would be the point of strapping explosives to yourself, blowing it up and still live? (minus a leg or two, an arm, some lost diggits and an eye and an ear) If you' re a suicide bomber you DIE! Period. Otherwise you failed. Now who' d want to play such a character.
NPC' s and ennemies maybe, but no characters plz.
Besides, what would be the point of strapping explosives to yourself, blowing it up and still live? (minus a leg or two, an arm, some lost diggits and an eye and an ear) If you' re a suicide bomber you DIE! Period. Otherwise you failed. Now who' d want to play such a character.
NPC' s and ennemies maybe, but no characters plz.
He who keeps the old akindled and adds new knowledge is fit to be a teacher.
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Soldier87
Maybe it's just smarter to, you know, use a gun instead of running up and blowing yourself up to kill a few people? Suicide bombers are mostly trying to make a statement. If you really want to off random people, you'd buy an AK and pick off people from a high area or something.
suppose you're thinking about a plate of shrimp. suddenly somebody will say like 'plate' or 'shrimp' or 'plate of shrimp', out of the blue, no explanation.
hey, but it adds to the drama. a suicide bomber is a poor man's precision guided munition - aka smart bomb...
thus, having an experienced suicide bomber with regenerative powers will be a challenge
:badgrin:
The humorous aspect of Fallout and Wasteland is how it spoofs real life events. it ought to maintain that tradition in the narratives.
Allahu Akbar, Baby
thus, having an experienced suicide bomber with regenerative powers will be a challenge
:badgrin:
The humorous aspect of Fallout and Wasteland is how it spoofs real life events. it ought to maintain that tradition in the narratives.
Allahu Akbar, Baby
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ExtremeDrinker
- 250 Posts til Somewhere
- Posts: 2847
- Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:21 am
- Location: Going to School.
Of course having an experienced suicide bomber with regenerative powers is a challenge...Hence the SUICIDE part...Would just sort of roll back together and form a person again after he blows himself up?
I'm sorry...This is just an ignorant idea. If this was "Fallout 3: Religious Wars" I can see suicide bombers (NOT AS A PC)..But it's not...So you're an idiot.
I'm sorry...This is just an ignorant idea. If this was "Fallout 3: Religious Wars" I can see suicide bombers (NOT AS A PC)..But it's not...So you're an idiot.
Abu Akbar Bashir Idonesian terrorist that was the mastermind of the Bali bombing that turn many an aussie dude into mincemeat.Fetus wrote:Yeah, only random people in towns should do that.
Who's Allahu Akbar again? Was he the master of the art of suicide bombing?
That guy is executed anyway and some pple called him Allahu Akbar, note that Allah is the muslim supreme God. and calling Bashir him Akbar Allahu is like calling him a god or something.
Crazy stuff i say. :roll: Aussies are still angry over the incident.
HAHAHAH! Ignorant Vault Dwellers! Your PipBOy been distorting news?Ripper wrote: Abu Akbar Bashir Idonesian terrorist that was the mastermind of the Bali bombing that turn many an aussie dude into mincemeat.
That guy is executed anyway and some pple called him Allahu Akbar, note that Allah is the muslim supreme God. and calling Bashir him Akbar Allahu is like calling him a god or something.
ALLAHU AKBAR is the Arabic cry "God Is Great".
Abu Bakar Bashir, the Amir of JEMAAH ISLAMIAH, the Al Qaeda associate from southeast asia's been given 4 years detention. Those sentenced to death are Ali Ghufron@Muhklas, Imam Samudra and Amrozi. Ali Imron was sentenced for life.
Here's some interesting articles on the Art of Suicide Terrorism:
From ICT:
Suicide Terrorism: an Overview
Suicide Terrorism: Development & Characteristics
i will not debate about the ethical, legal or moralistic aspects of suicide operaions. in spite of all the chest thumping and denouncement, suicide operations has made its impact in the real world and will be here to stay.
it'll be interesting to observe leaders from the Temple of The Mushroom Cloud or the Hubbologists forming 'special operations squad' that endorsing 'martyrdom' attacks.
Last edited by lam_par on Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Soldier87
On the other hand, there can be a Suicide Operations Perk (for characters with high Charisma), he'll be able to recruit and influence NPCs (villagers, random townsfolk etc.) to become suicide operatives.
Like Soldier87 mentioned, if he's able to cobble together some C4 or TNT and some complementary chemicals (like Sulphur, Ammonium Nitrate or Potassium Chlorate) - bismillah! a Martyr ready for self-destruction.
With vehicles, or larger sized races (like Mutants), you can actually augment the tonnage of the explosives carried. Pack it with radiological substance or other WMD stuff - a walking strategic weapon. Of course, there can be the 'dirty' bomb - but i'm sure there'll be characters that will be immune to the fallout effects.
More interesting articles on Suicide Operations:
Suicide Bombings:The Ultimate Weapon?
Programmed Terrorists: An Analysis of the Letter left behind by the September 11 Hijackers
Suicide Bombers :Poor man's precision munition
Like Soldier87 mentioned, if he's able to cobble together some C4 or TNT and some complementary chemicals (like Sulphur, Ammonium Nitrate or Potassium Chlorate) - bismillah! a Martyr ready for self-destruction.
With vehicles, or larger sized races (like Mutants), you can actually augment the tonnage of the explosives carried. Pack it with radiological substance or other WMD stuff - a walking strategic weapon. Of course, there can be the 'dirty' bomb - but i'm sure there'll be characters that will be immune to the fallout effects.
More interesting articles on Suicide Operations:
Suicide Bombings:The Ultimate Weapon?
Programmed Terrorists: An Analysis of the Letter left behind by the September 11 Hijackers
Suicide Bombers :Poor man's precision munition
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Soldier87
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ExtremeDrinker
- 250 Posts til Somewhere
- Posts: 2847
- Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:21 am
- Location: Going to School.
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Soldier87
thus - the character with the Suicide Ops Perk coupled with his high charisma (and perhaps being a political/religious/apocalyptic cult leader) can recruit the bystanders NPC - villagers etc to do his dirty job.Soldier87 wrote:Of course the one major problem with suicide bombers, well two.
1) You lose your people in the process
2) You are labeled a terrorist
besides - is the concept of 'terrorism' applicable in the Wasteland? HAHAHAHA
:badgrin:
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Soldier87
Well like i said, lets try and keep these ideas in the games people. And lam_par, you can "recruit" people to do your dirty work in a sense. Like in fallout 2, those bastard kids who steel your shit. Plant a bomb on them that is activated, a short fuse or time, because they quickly give it to the store clerk, and boom!
I came across this article when i was conducting my research on suicide terrorism. The americans with access to microfilm archives at the library may wish to verify the authenticity of the article::
U.S. TRAINED A KAMIKAZE NUCLEAR TEAM THEY WERE TO CARRY BOMBS IN BACKPACKS IF THE COLD WAR BLEW UP
August 7, 1994 Sunday FINAL EDITION
The Philadelphia Inquirer
Frank Greve, INQUIRER WASHINGTON BUREAU
American commandos armed with small "backpack" nuclear weapons were prepared to launch suicidal missions if the Cold War disintegrated into an armed conflict, according to authoritative military sources.
"We were kamikaze pilots without the airplanes," said Louis Frank Napoli Jr. of Tampa, Fla., a former enlisted man in the Army who said he volunteered for the assignment.
Called "Green Light" squads, the Army demolition units were trained to deliver the bombs and then "watch the device until it went off" to ensure that enemy forces did not interfere with the explosion, said a former Army Special Forces member trained for such a mission.
"If that meant staying inside the hydroelectric plant, standing 20 feet away from the warhead, that's where you stayed," said the Special Forces veteran, who asked not to be identified because of confidentiality agreements signed while in the program. "It was suicide, and we all knew it."
Retired Army Maj. Gen. David Einsel, deputy assistant secretary of defense for atomic energy from 1980 to 1985, confirmed the Green Light teams' assignment. Portable nuclear warheads "were not the weapon of choice, and it had to be a very worthwhile mission or you weren't going to set it off in the first place," he added.
George Grimes, spokesman for the Special Operations Command, said he could not discuss the capabilities of forces assigned to the command.
A classified Army manual on nuclear demolition supports the accounts given by the former Special Forces member and by Einsel, and civilian experts in nuclear weapons say it is consistent with their understanding of nuclear war tactics.
No devices ever were actually fired by the Army's tactical nuclear demolition teams. The last of 300 "backpack nukes" built for such missions were withdrawn from NATO arsenals in 1988 and destroyed.
President Dwight D. Eisenhower conceived of the highly classified U.S. tactical weapons program in the 1950s, hoping that ways could be found to use very small nuclear devices in combat.
But "tactics that made sense in the '50s when the weapons were conceived, and were plausible in the '60s when they were deployed, were absolutely comical by the '80s," said William Arkin, an expert on nuclear warfare and contributing editor for the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists.
The smallest weapon, armed with a 58-pound warhead and producing a blast equal to only a few tons of TNT, was deployed in Europe in 1964. It was designed to destroy Eastern-bloc bridges, tunnels, dams, canals and other targets invulnerable to bombardment from the air.
The warhead was drum-shaped, about 20 inches in diameter and 24 inches tall. Two-man teams carried the devices in customized backpacks. One bore the warhead; the other carried the firing mechanism. Assembled, the device weighed about 160 pounds, according to the Nuclear Weapons Databook, the definitive unclassified manual on the subject.
"They practiced delivering it by land, sea and air; by static line, free fall, HALO (high-altitude, low-opening parachute) jump and submarine; by car, truck, train, and just plain hiking it in," said the former commando.
"It looked like nothing. They'd disguise it as a trash can, a water cooler, a keg of beer."
Napoli, who left the military in 1982, said the weapons were carried in a standard backpack with a custom-made fiberglass frame.
Napoli said he received top-secret clearance from the FBI after volunteering to receive the training in the early 1980s at Fort Belvoir, Va.
According to Arkin, a cable only 100 meters long ran from the blast site to the detonation team in early versions. "Believe it or not, for safety and security reasons, it was operated without remote detonation. Somebody actually had to push the button."
Later, use of a radio-activated "timer option" was permitted. Protecting the device still required that the demolition team and its squad of 10 heavily armed protectors stay within a fatal distance of the warhead, the Special Forces veteran said.
If the weapon were deeply buried in rock and the detonation triggered by a radio transmission, Green Light teams might have survived the explosion, Einsel said. "A few tens of football fields away and you were beyond the blast zone."
They probably would not have survived the radioactive fallout, according to tables published in a classified 1971 Army field manual. It predicted heavy casualties from fallout even at the lowest yields and even when the warhead was buried 12 meters - about 39 feet - deep. Engineering tools commonly available to Green Light teams permitted them to dig the warhead in 9 feet at most.
Although demolition units were likely to perish, "delay in the onset of effects . . . may permit some personnel to remain effective long enough to influence a specific operation," the training manual states.
U.S. TRAINED A KAMIKAZE NUCLEAR TEAM THEY WERE TO CARRY BOMBS IN BACKPACKS IF THE COLD WAR BLEW UP
August 7, 1994 Sunday FINAL EDITION
The Philadelphia Inquirer
Frank Greve, INQUIRER WASHINGTON BUREAU
American commandos armed with small "backpack" nuclear weapons were prepared to launch suicidal missions if the Cold War disintegrated into an armed conflict, according to authoritative military sources.
"We were kamikaze pilots without the airplanes," said Louis Frank Napoli Jr. of Tampa, Fla., a former enlisted man in the Army who said he volunteered for the assignment.
Called "Green Light" squads, the Army demolition units were trained to deliver the bombs and then "watch the device until it went off" to ensure that enemy forces did not interfere with the explosion, said a former Army Special Forces member trained for such a mission.
"If that meant staying inside the hydroelectric plant, standing 20 feet away from the warhead, that's where you stayed," said the Special Forces veteran, who asked not to be identified because of confidentiality agreements signed while in the program. "It was suicide, and we all knew it."
Retired Army Maj. Gen. David Einsel, deputy assistant secretary of defense for atomic energy from 1980 to 1985, confirmed the Green Light teams' assignment. Portable nuclear warheads "were not the weapon of choice, and it had to be a very worthwhile mission or you weren't going to set it off in the first place," he added.
George Grimes, spokesman for the Special Operations Command, said he could not discuss the capabilities of forces assigned to the command.
A classified Army manual on nuclear demolition supports the accounts given by the former Special Forces member and by Einsel, and civilian experts in nuclear weapons say it is consistent with their understanding of nuclear war tactics.
No devices ever were actually fired by the Army's tactical nuclear demolition teams. The last of 300 "backpack nukes" built for such missions were withdrawn from NATO arsenals in 1988 and destroyed.
President Dwight D. Eisenhower conceived of the highly classified U.S. tactical weapons program in the 1950s, hoping that ways could be found to use very small nuclear devices in combat.
But "tactics that made sense in the '50s when the weapons were conceived, and were plausible in the '60s when they were deployed, were absolutely comical by the '80s," said William Arkin, an expert on nuclear warfare and contributing editor for the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists.
The smallest weapon, armed with a 58-pound warhead and producing a blast equal to only a few tons of TNT, was deployed in Europe in 1964. It was designed to destroy Eastern-bloc bridges, tunnels, dams, canals and other targets invulnerable to bombardment from the air.
The warhead was drum-shaped, about 20 inches in diameter and 24 inches tall. Two-man teams carried the devices in customized backpacks. One bore the warhead; the other carried the firing mechanism. Assembled, the device weighed about 160 pounds, according to the Nuclear Weapons Databook, the definitive unclassified manual on the subject.
"They practiced delivering it by land, sea and air; by static line, free fall, HALO (high-altitude, low-opening parachute) jump and submarine; by car, truck, train, and just plain hiking it in," said the former commando.
"It looked like nothing. They'd disguise it as a trash can, a water cooler, a keg of beer."
Napoli, who left the military in 1982, said the weapons were carried in a standard backpack with a custom-made fiberglass frame.
Napoli said he received top-secret clearance from the FBI after volunteering to receive the training in the early 1980s at Fort Belvoir, Va.
According to Arkin, a cable only 100 meters long ran from the blast site to the detonation team in early versions. "Believe it or not, for safety and security reasons, it was operated without remote detonation. Somebody actually had to push the button."
Later, use of a radio-activated "timer option" was permitted. Protecting the device still required that the demolition team and its squad of 10 heavily armed protectors stay within a fatal distance of the warhead, the Special Forces veteran said.
If the weapon were deeply buried in rock and the detonation triggered by a radio transmission, Green Light teams might have survived the explosion, Einsel said. "A few tens of football fields away and you were beyond the blast zone."
They probably would not have survived the radioactive fallout, according to tables published in a classified 1971 Army field manual. It predicted heavy casualties from fallout even at the lowest yields and even when the warhead was buried 12 meters - about 39 feet - deep. Engineering tools commonly available to Green Light teams permitted them to dig the warhead in 9 feet at most.
Although demolition units were likely to perish, "delay in the onset of effects . . . may permit some personnel to remain effective long enough to influence a specific operation," the training manual states.
Last edited by lam_par on Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Soldier87
Well see that may not be true, it may be another form of anti-american propaganda out there. but if it is, then there are no exceptions, killing yourself unless your trying to save lives, like in a situation where you step in front of a bullet to save a friend or something (which isnt really suicied attacks dont know why i brought it up). Suicide attacks, whether by americans or anyone else, its barbaric and undignifed and unhonorable. Even though ww3 would be a hard struggle, i wouldnt approve of any such attacks or even DEFENSE methods.
