Liberalism in America

[Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD]

understand until it happens to you?
what, did you lose 6 family members and your dog in the 9/11 attacks?

[Slave_Master]

And some Americans just shouldn't be allowed to vote, like rednecks who only care if full-auto assault rifles will be legal.

So if a person is likely to disagree with you, they shouldn't vote? WOW THERES DEMOCRACY FOR YOU

Regardless, I think people should only be allowed to vote after 3+ years of voluntary military service.

[Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD]

starship trooper style eh?

[Slave_Master]

starship trooper style eh?

Yeah, I guess. Almost as good as monarchy, at least.

[Alphawulf]

They didn't alllow dogs in the WTC, unless one of his family members was blind.

[Wolfman Walt]

well i agree with you that americans are dumb, only some though, most of us go to college now.

Just out of curiousity....have you ever been to a college? 75% of college students I've met are just as dumb as they were in Highschool. Alot of their reason for going to college is to party and have a good time, not to become more intelligent. Sure, they get an education and learn some things, but theres a differance between knowing something and knowing how to use it and apply it. Such as politics and political knowledge.

Btw, Alpha, for once Apollo is right. CNN is more of a liberal network and Fox is more conservative. Probably the most unbiased news is "Weekly Christian Science News Moniter", the only problem with them is they relate everything to God. But atleast you get the facts with almost no spin, which is what you want.

[trythebill]

well i agree with you that americans are dumb, only some though, most of us go to college now.

Just out of curiousity....have you ever been to a college? 75% of college students I've met are just as dumb as they were in Highschool. Alot of their reason for going to college is to party and have a good time, not to become more intelligent. Sure, they get an education and learn some things, but theres a differance between knowing something and knowing how to use it and apply it. Such as politics and political knowledge.

Btw, Alpha, for once Apollo is right. CNN is more of a liberal network and Fox is more conservative. Probably the most unbiased news is "Weekly Christian Science News Moniter", the only problem with them is they relate everything to God. But atleast you get the facts with almost no spin, which is what you want.

unless you're a liberal. then you fear the real facts due in part to their debunking everything you stand for an making you look like an idiot. which you are probably already able to take care of pretty well on your own.

[Alphawulf]

Ahem... there are many liberals who aren't idiots, just like their are also many conservatives who aren't idiots. Saying that one large group of people is stupid and doesn't have a valid point on anything doesn't speak very highly of your own intelect. Both groups have valid points in many things. And I think we can all agree that Bush is an idiot anyway you put it.

As for fearing the real facts, please tell me these 'real' facts that I so highly fear.

[trythebill]

As for fearing the real facts, please tell me these 'real' facts that I so highly fear.

make me.

[Alphawulf]

Oh I get it! Your "reduce stress by not giving a fuck" signature, and the "fuck you" custom title, that's aight with me man. I don't care what you think and you can keep these 'facts' to yourself if you want too. Don't worry I won't tread on you.

Or maybe you just made up that shit about the 'Real Facts'.

[Apollo]

Bush may be an idiot, but I bet he can outsmart you. And we all know why the us is really there, a little something called OIL. duhr, i know, but i dont care, why? becuase in return for oil, we freed a nation. so once again, we had gain, as they did, its mutual. you would have to be blind to not see it, as for 9/11, no i didnt lose family, but does that mean that that didnt affect me? no, it happened to my country, if it happened to yours, you wouldnt appreciate people saying we deserved it, or haha in your face. people in israel know what im talking about, theyve gone through those shitty situations since, hell, since there was the jewish religion.

[SuperH]

People in israel know what im talking about, theyve gone through those shitty situations since, hell, since there was the jewish religion.

I bet your one of their best friends because you sympathize with them :-!
Go tell them how much you know about their plight and be like "omg friends" and they'll be like "omg americhristian get off me :jihad:"

Y'know, the ENTIRE history of judaism isn't torture and hellishness. Only a lot. But still, it wouldn't have lasted very long as a faith if since day one they were persecuted and omg killed every time they said a word?

And why exactly do you care about 9-11? Because you're morally outraged? Did you sit up and cry over the deaths caused? No, and I know I didn't either. I fucking complained on 9-11 because they cancelled bowling. FUCKING TERRORISTS I'M STILL PISSED OFF THAT I MISSED BOWLING NIGHT!!! :-!!!

Anyway, you're pissed because Mr. Media says "omg look kill teh terrorists for god and country" and you're like "? ok."

[Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD]

if half of canada blew up i could care less as long as i didnt lose family members and canada wasnt subjegated by whoever or whatever did it.

so fuck your useless patriotism in a country and its people that would sooner kill you than recognize you exist.

[airsoft guy]

I don't know what it is about Apollo here, but he's pissing me off with all his war in Iraq babble, and I support the war. It was probably the thing about the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act=dog dick. It's a un-Constitutional, you give up your rights with that bullshit, and weren't you busting out Jefferson quotes about pussies being anti-gun for the saftey? You say one thing in one place and something else in another.

[trythebill]

Oh I get it! Your "reduce stress by not giving a fuck" signature, and the "fuck you" custom title, that's aight with me man.

? i don't get it.

[Radoteur]

I really should keep up. Oh well, here’s my three page catch-up.

Resorting to petty name-calling would be an indication, at least to me, that one was losing the argument. On second though, I guess it could also mean that you were passionate about the subject.

As far as political biases and the like goes, I suggest everyone try their best to abandon the party line and think for yourselves. If you happen to agree with one party more than another, then good, you have someone fighting for your views in government. If not, then you are probably a radical that should be purged. Haha, just kidding. Just try to find the party that best represents your views.

EDIT2: due to soldiers stupidity i had to put this. if canada had the military power it would not do what the US does because it has no reason to show its power. we in canada are relatively placid people until you piss us off.

You speak of Canadians as placid until you get pissed off. Tell me, do you think America had anything to get pissed off about?
America wants to protect American interests. When someone declares war on America, this is a threat to American interests, thus America retaliates. Sure, they may have done a bad job retaliating, and may have jumped into Iraq when it wasn't linked to the terrorist attacks on 9/11, but Iraq should have been taken care of a long, long time ago. And by taken care of, I mean no weapons of mass destruction. None of those limp-wristed UN hide and seek games.
Of course, the whole WMD thing is going to get swept under, because the Americans haven't found any. What a big stupid blunder.
I read an interesting theory on the whole situation. As long as Saddam could make everyone think he was hiding WMDs, he would get the deterrence he needed and wanted, all while being free of maintaining and actually hiding real WMDs. Another theory was that his followers might have exaggerated Iraq's arsenal, because Saddam doesn't like bad news.
Even without the WMDs, I think this war would have been worthwhile, but then again, I'd be for an alliance between the free nations of the world to depose all dictators in the world to create a new free world.

2) The same ocupational problems with iraq, happened in post ww2 germany and japan as well

I wouldn't say it was as simple as that. Post war Germany and Japan were much easier to rebuild. They were homogeneous, whereas in Iraq there is a wide diversity of peoples, cultures, and even religions. Iraq will be much more difficult to stabilize as there are some who would oppose the American forces. And although they were initially doing some extremely stupid things, they appear to be learning how to wage guerilla war. Although they appear to be becoming more formidable, these Iraqi fighters are nowhere near the level of the Vietcong warriors of the Vietnam War. I also believe the foreign policy of our government has changed to more effectively destroy the resisters.
Even with training from other enemies of America, including Al-Queda, I believe the Iraqi forces will pale in comparison to the Vietcong.

The US NEVER funded bin Ladin or al-Qaida. I mean Jesus, if a CIA agent contacted UBL he'd be killed. UBL kind of hates Americans, if you didn't notice.

From the information I’ve gotten and can still manage to remember, UBL only started getting hostile to America after America pulled out of Afghanistan, leaving many Afghans dead and the country in ruins. Apparently, the US government didn’t believe in reconstruction in that instance.
I think this brief article would be helpful in bringing light to the whole situation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/155236.stm

The Afghan jihad was backed with American dollars and had the blessing of the governments of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
[Osama Bin Laden] received security training from the CIA itself, according to Middle Eastern analyst Hazhir Teimourian.

Interesting. Now, I don’t suggest everyone take the BBC’s word as gospel, but it seems to refute some of what I’ve read.

The source is FRONTLINE, it's a well respected journalism show. I didn't make it up, unlike stuff like Nigeria's selling Iraq plutonium and they're making nukes as we speak. The CIA told bush this was bull about a week before his speach, but Bush still seemed to forget it was in there.

While I don’t disagree with your facts, perhaps you should look at the group of facts you have. It would almost seem that you are selectively seeking out fact that would support your views, rather than truly seeking the truth. Then again, maybe you’ve already made up your mind as to what the truth is and you are now trying to convince us to side with you.
I know this is probably a pretty sad cop-out, but I remember reading that intelligence agencies are more likely to speak in indefinite terms. “This may be so, this is most likely so, a strong possibility.� Whereas politicians selling a war want definite terms. “This is the way it is, no ifs about it.� I wish I could remember where I read it; the original author explained it far more eloquently than I.
The bit about Nigeria may have been a legitimate mistake, but I ask you, if this fact was, in fact, incorrect, would it completely discredit the rest of the case for war?

Alphawulf, I think I previously stated that a bias would seem more obvious if you disagreed with whatever the bias was for. I have a hard time explaining it. Perhaps the reason you see a bias is because you disagree with it. Apollo would call British news biased because he disagrees with it. I hope you understand what I’m trying to get across.
This whole bias idea isn’t even mine. I just wish I could remember where I read about it.
Oh here: http://brain-terminal.com/articles/poli ... tdown.html

Detecting hidden bias is like detecting an accent; the greater the difference between someone else's accent and your own, the more likely you are to label that person as "having an accent." Similarly, if you encounter someone who has the same accent as you, you will probably think of that person as having no accent at all. The truth is, just as everyone has an accent, everyone has a bias. The likelihood of picking up someone's bias depends upon how much that bias differs from your own. That's why you can find plenty of people who say CNN has a bias, and plenty of people who say Fox News Channel has a bias, but rarely do you find someone who sees bias in both.

The bit that probably made me sound like a tyrant was intended to do as such. I work hard to get inside of the most brutal minds of the world. I try to think what they think. It's easy to see why the people that I would be subjugating shouldn't have any means of defending themselves against my regime. If I were to impose my rule upon a country I would either work to ban all weapons (means to resist) or I would end any resisters will to resist. The will can be broken through a variety of methods. I could instill a fanatical love in my people for me. They would die to protect their leader. I could also rule with fear, destroying all opposition. Destroying any hint of resistance to my rule. Optimally, I would use a healthy balance of both of these. Indoctrinate and brainwash my countrymen to serve me unceasingly, and if there were any who resisted the "education" I'd impose on the public, I would make sure they were placed in an "emergency remedial program." The remedial program would use more radical methods to restore the possible rebels to my will. If that failed, I would need to eliminate the opposition. Ideally, this would be an excruciating death viewed by all my followers.
Although I hate dictators and those who oppose freedom with every fiber of my being, I work hard to understand how they come to power to ensure that no such thing occurs in my beloved country.

[airsoft guy]

http://news.morningstar.com/news/DJ/M10 ... 62701.html

Kuwait Foils Biochem Arms Smuggling From Iraq -Newspaper



10-01-03 03:43 PM EST

KUWAIT CITY (AP)--Kuwaiti security authorities have foiled an attempt to smuggle $60 million worth of chemical weapons and biological warheads from Iraq to an unnamed European country, a Kuwaiti newspaper said Wednesday.

The pro-government Al-Siyassah, quoting an unnamed security source, said the suspects had been watched by security since they arrived in Kuwait and were arrested "in due time." It didn't say when or how the smugglers entered Kuwait or when they were arrested.

The paper said the smugglers might have had accomplices inside Kuwait. It said Interior Minister Sheik Nawwaf Al Ahmed Al Sabah would hand over the smuggled weapons to an FBI agent at a news conference, but didn't say when.

Government officials couldn't be immediately reached for comment.

Iraqi Interior Minister Nouri Al-Badran met Tuesday with Sheik Nawwaf and discussed cooperation between the two countries in security matters. His visit is the first by an Iraqi interior minister to Kuwait since 1990.


Dow Jones Newswires
10-01-03 1541ET

Copyright (C) 2003 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Copyright 2002 Dow Jones & Co., Inc.


As you can see it's kind of old, but I havn't seen anything to counter it, or I just wasn't paying attention.

As far as political biases and the like goes, I suggest everyone try their best to abandon the party line and think for yourselves. If you happen to agree with one party more than another, then good, you have someone fighting for your views in government. If not, then you are probably a radical that should be purged. Haha, just kidding. Just try to find the party that best represents your views.

Exactly, it looks like Apollo here is pretty much following what the Republican Party says and then treats it as if it were the words of Jesus Christ. They aren't and they make lots of mistakes and tell lots of lies, but I also think that the left does it even more. Of course, I'm just a tad biased.

[Radoteur]

If that article were true, that would be the godsend the administration needed. Trust me, when they find WMD, we'll never hear the end of it. It'll be one big huge "I told you so" fest.

[Slave_Master]

Interesting. Now, I don’t suggest everyone take the BBC’s word as gospel, but it seems to refute some of what I’ve read.

The funny part about the whole, "According to Hazhir Teimourian" bit is that they don't back it up anywhere else. I could just as easily say, "According to John Doe, an American analyst, former President Bill Clinton is a Martian infiltrator", John Doe being a drugged up hobo.

Detecting hidden bias is like detecting an accent; the greater the difference between someone else's accent and your own, the more likely you are to label that person as "having an accent." Similarly, if you encounter someone who has the same accent as you, you will probably think of that person as having no accent at all. The truth is, just as everyone has an accent, everyone has a bias. The likelihood of picking up someone's bias depends upon how much that bias differs from your own. That's why you can find plenty of people who say CNN has a bias, and plenty of people who say Fox News Channel has a bias, but rarely do you find someone who sees bias in both.

I agree. All TV news pisses me off to no end. Since FNC is a bit closer to my political leaning, I do tend to view it as less biased, but they're still assholes.

Even with training from other enemies of America, including Al-Queda, I believe the Iraqi forces will pale in comparison to the Vietcong.

Not to mention that since we don't have a Dem president who doesn't understand the point of a war is to win, it's highly unlikely it would turn into another Vietnam.

[Greg]

What we need in America is more political buzzwords, repeated ad nauseum, until they entirely lose their meaning amongst this retarded fucking corporate puppet show of a 'democratic' government.

But here's a tip: before you start whining about 'liberalism,' try to wrap your mind around the concept.

It doesn't seem to bother anyone that we've reached a point of ideological stagnation in this country, where both political parties are just flip sides of the same coin.

I'd like to see a day when I don't have to choose between two rich, old, white, protestant assholes, both threatened social change, who wouldn't stop to piss on me on the street, much less help me with my problems. But let's go ahead and bicker about those wacky liberals with their gun control laws and their veggieburgers, if it this distraction from critical thought makes you feel any better about your spineless, shapeless philosophy.

LET'S NOT GET OFF TOPIC! Because, these are, of course, the things that matter.

Booo team red. Go team blue!