Ground vehicles in FO3??

[Yossarian]

Bicycles...? They are very energy-effective (even better than walking) and relatively easy to build/ repair. They can be carried over rough terrain. They are EMP-proof and don't need no stinkin' vacuum tubes. Training is not too dangerous and there must be millions left from the Last War. They need no fuel. They never get sick or need water like brahmin. The Swiss army uses them.

And a horde of raiders attacking you on their bicycles, howling and shaking their weapons sounds downright...laughable. Oh well...

Ok, I stick with Humvees, bikes, trikes and Mad Max contraptions and the occasional high-prized, armoured, ram-plated, up-souped, black-painted Lincoln Continental, all powered with Micro Fusions from your friendly local trader. Use them to plow through raiders, transport your loot, mount weapons on and travel in style. In a way, FO is more about style than about realism...

[Saint_Proverbius]

Bicycles...? They are very energy-effective (even better than walking) and relatively easy to build/ repair. They can be carried over rough terrain. They are EMP-proof and don't need no stinkin' vacuum tubes. Training is not too dangerous and there must be millions left from the Last War. They need no fuel. They never get sick or need water like brahmin. The Swiss army uses them.

The only problem with bicycles would be the gear chains. Those need oiling and rust pretty fast. Once those chains rust, they're pretty much useless.

Ok, I stick with Humvees, bikes, trikes and Mad Max contraptions and the occasional high-prized, armoured, ram-plated, up-souped, black-painted Lincoln Continental, all powered with Micro Fusions from your friendly local trader. Use them to plow through raiders, transport your loot, mount weapons on and travel in style. In a way, FO is more about style than about realism...

Fallout isn't Mad Max, and none of the vehicles you mentioned fit the setting of Fallout. Remember, Fallout is based on 1950s sci-fi, Humvees and Continentals are circa 1980.

[Yossarian]

I think it would be easier to find a functioning or repairable gear chain than an operable gun in this setting...and some bicycles work without gear chains. But that's beside the point as bicycles are basically uncool and unfitting for the setting. A bicycle would probably work only for special encounters...like the Nuka-Cola delivery man in FOT.

Concerning Humvees, you are probably right...they are to "modern". I thought the Lincoln Continental was a car with monstrous tailfins and such, right out of the 50's...
Would a Cadillac be more falloutish?

But I really think motorcycles would be a nice addition.

[king_ota]

Say if the FO3 is at lest 50+ years in the future then shouldn't the vault based cities (like vault city, and the NCR) Have the tech, people and products to make groung veichals like a simple mass prodused engine or vaccume tubes?
It would also be neet to see a giant steam powered train going across the wastes?
Also can't you make an alchaol form corn that could power cars?
(and it would be VERY cool if you could change the colour of your car (or bramin cart)

[Saint_Proverbius]

I think it would be easier to find a functioning or repairable gear chain than an operable gun in this setting...and some bicycles work without gear chains. But that's beside the point as bicycles are basically uncool and unfitting for the setting. A bicycle would probably work only for special encounters...like the Nuka-Cola delivery man in FOT.

Guns are being made by certain factions in Fallout. They're also kept in vaults.

Bicycle chains could also be machined by the people who machine the guns, but given a choice of making guns or bicycles..

Concerning Humvees, you are probably right...they are to "modern". I thought the Lincoln Continental was a car with monstrous tailfins and such, right out of the 50's...
Would a Cadillac be more falloutish?

There was a 1950s model of continental?

But I really think motorcycles would be a nice addition.

Motorcycles have a lot of the problems that cars have. If there are rapid transportation vehicles, you have the ability to extend the enforcement of your law to more than just townships. Imagine if NCR had rapid transit. They could have been a modern nation in no time, rather than a post apocalyptic one.

Say if the FO3 is at lest 50+ years in the future then shouldn't the vault based cities (like vault city, and the NCR) Have the tech, people and products to make groung veichals like a simple mass prodused engine or vaccume tubes?

Most of the people who leave vaults don't end up as lucky as Vault City's people. NCR took a century to get where it was.

[Yossarian]

Well, I don't really know if there is a 50's model of the Lincoln Continental, but the name dropped into my mind right after "Cadillac" when thinking about big, fat, fiftiesh cars...

Concerning gear chains: well, after gun number five or six I would definitely want something to haul my lazy ass around so I would aks my man the mechanic for a gear chain, yes...but it still clashes a bit with the setting.

Concerning dangers to the Fallout setting: cars would be very useful in establishing a central government as well as law and order (shudder) over a wide area. But the true danger lies in NCRs mindset and "mission" to unify the region. You don't need cars to rule a continent...runners are enough...just ask any ancient Chinese if you find one.

But in a way, the Fallout setting is a setting in transition...people will want to create a stable environment for themselves and their children, they will want to live under stable laws and with the opprotunity to trade and travel. It will take some time, but in the end they will succeed in creating states much like NCR and these states will swallow the wasteland...

[Saint_Proverbius]

Concerning dangers to the Fallout setting: cars would be very useful in establishing a central government as well as law and order (shudder) over a wide area. But the true danger lies in NCRs mindset and "mission" to unify the region. You don't need cars to rule a continent...runners are enough...just ask any ancient Chinese if you find one.

The Chinese weren't really able to control the roads with runners though, they could just establish communications and order in the towns.

When you have something that goes 60MPH though, and a good chunk of them, you can establish road patrols. A highly mobile law enforcement branch to ensure safe passage between the towns for trading would be one of the first biproducts of mechanization.

After all, there is interest in patrolling around towns already. You can see Junktown patrols fairly early in Fallout. If you give them mobility above foot travel to the point of having cars, they can patrol areas better, faster, and farther.

But in a way, the Fallout setting is a setting in transition...people will want to create a stable environment for themselves and their children, they will want to live under stable laws and with the opprotunity to trade and travel. It will take some time, but in the end they will succeed in creating states much like NCR and these states will swallow the wasteland...

That was one of my big beefs with Fallout 2. That transition was happening way too fast. Fallout 2 was right on the edge of becoming a wide spread civilization with the NCR. When that happens, Fallout will go from post apocalyptic to straight sci-fi. Without the lawlessness and the difficulty of travel, you start to see more and more towns living under the same codes of laws as the ones next to them. Tiny towns in regions go from being outposts to borders of nations.

[Som Guy]

I have to say that i dissagree with the weapons on car idea. But perhaps it could have a sometype of raming weapon so that it randomly kills hostile creatures in encounters. Possibly based on luck divided by 3 rounded up. I also think they should make the emotions with pip-boy heads.

[Som Guy]

Just think. The enclave were not hit in the great war because they hid so they had no setbacks and by the time its 2100's vertibird type veichles are possible aslo what the heck is up with the stupid temple of trials

[Yossarian]

That was one of my big beefs with Fallout 2. That transition was happening way too fast. Fallout 2 was right on the edge of becoming a wide spread civilization with the NCR. When that happens, Fallout will go from post apocalyptic to straight sci-fi. Without the lawlessness and the difficulty of travel, you start to see more and more towns living under the same codes of laws as the ones next to them. Tiny towns in regions go from being outposts to borders of nations.

That's while I always storm the NCR at the end of FO2, hopped up on Jet and Psycho, carrying a nice and shiny Bozar...extinguish the flame of civilization before it burns out of control...

just kidding

[Saint_Proverbius]

That's while I always storm the NCR at the end of FO2, hopped up on Jet and Psycho, carrying a nice and shiny Bozar...extinguish the flame of civilization before it burns out of control...

just kidding

Hit the Shi too, just to make sure.

You know, the Shi in Fallout remind me a lot of the warp engine creation thing in the new Star Trek time line. Just replace "warp engine" with "artificial fuel". Huge scientific/engineering epochs in a post apocalyptic environment are just plain goofy.

[Flamescreen]

Btw, since Saint_Proverbius talked about the Chinese, come to think of it, we haven't really heard about them in FO. Would it be the time for an appearance in FO? Perhaps as the major enemy?

[Yossarian]

Well, in my apocalyptic GURPS campaign, there are some disconcerting hints that America is kept a big postapocalyptical amusement park for jaded tourists from the rest of the world (Asia, Europe, Australia, South Africa) that wasn't hit that hard by the big bang or has long recovered...kinda like "The Wild Shore" by Kim Stanley Robinson.

Fear not, patriots. It's just an impression I convey to my players. The rest of the world is as busted as the American continent, but they will never find out...

But wouldn't that be a totally evil turnaround for FO3?

[Saint_Proverbius]

Btw, since Saint_Proverbius talked about the Chinese, come to think of it, we haven't really heard about them in FO. Would it be the time for an appearance in FO? Perhaps as the major enemy?

I'd rather see something less human in Fallout 3, really.

[Flamescreen]

Hmm, you mean an attck by Deathclaws or something of that caliber? Can't imagine it happening, but then again I never said I have the most creative imagination around...

[Tank]

How abou the talking Deathclaws going evil on us again? Them along with some new (FEV- oh well, it does solve problems!) muties making a new army...

[OnTheBounce]

If we don't watch it, the FO universe is going to get stuck in the "rampaging horde" rut.

FO's enemy was a horde of rampaging Super Mutants.

FO2's enemy was a horde of goose-stepping, power armor-clad soldiers on the rampage.

FoT's enemy was a horde of rampaging robots. (Did the end remind you a little too much of The Phantom Menace, or am I alone here?)

How about a shadowy enemy that is hard to hit because no one wants you to hit it? I'm talkin' corporation/trade cartel here. I'm talkin' about a powerbase that isn't linked to good old terra firma. Have a group like the Water Merchants in FO start spreading out and launching some diabolical plot. Problem is: they've got the goods that everyone needs. They're also hard to fight because they sit squat in the middle of other people's towns. You might hate Microsoft, but the Feds won't exactly like it if you turn their HQ into a warzone...

Done right, this could be an awesome basis for a plot, as well as steering well clear of the oh-so-tired "they're a horde loose...AGAIN" plot lines.

OTB

[Yossarian]

Works only in relatively civilized areas and can turn political real fast...which can be a very good thing.

Hm, how about an enemy that spreads poison in the world. Imagine the master creating somekind of FEV-factory that infects the wasteland, making more and more of the terrain impassable for the hero, or forcing him to travel dangerous routes and acquiring very special gear instead of unleashing his mutant army. You would also have to deal with fugitives, there would be a time limit...

I still think that travel in FO should be much more dangerous, not only concerning random encounters (which turn into walking money bags sooner or later anyway) but also considering radiaton (post-nuclear, fer god's sake...), hunger and thirst. And illness.

[Flamescreen]

Not a bad idea at all, OTB! Also, they would probably be harder to hit, because everyone would be rather reluctant to share with you info about them. There could be a spy network all over the place, or people would be just scared of the implications(no water for my tribe for the next month?).

My main problem with it would be, it would have to continue the trend of going ever too tech developed in each game. Passed that, it would be a worthy idea for suggesting to the creators.

[OnTheBounce]

...[T]here would be a time limit...

Sounds like a plus to me.

I still think that travel in FO should be much more dangerous, not only concerning random encounters...but also considering radiaton...hunger and thirst. And illness.

When I first played FO I figured that the Outdoorsman skill would have something to do w/things like this. Boy was I wrong!

While I'd like to see an expanded use for the Outdoorsmans skill, and some other aspects added to overland travel, I have to say that the designers should be careful not to turn it into a wagontrain simulation. ("Hmmm...should I take the hard tack...or meat jerky?") I think that this skill should affect a character's speed on the World Map, and allow things like the making of Forced Marches...to help beat that time limit that the designers had better put in the game. ( :mrgreen: )

Not a bad idea at all, OTB!

Thanks, but I got the idea from reading R. A. Heinlein's novel Friday.

Also, they would probably be harder to hit, because everyone would be rather reluctant to share with you info about them. There could be a spy network all over the place, or people would be just scared of the implications (no water for my tribe for the next month?).

There's all kinds of ways that this could be approached. The only real stipulation is that the organization has to provide a service which makes it indispensable. It really doesn't matter what the service or the goods are, although a service is probably a better idea, since that doesn't leave the organization tied to any patch of ground.

My main problem with it would be, it would have to continue the trend of going ever too tech developed in each game.

Actually, it really doesn't need to. The Water Merchants in FO were anything but high tech. The BoS was far more advanced than they were, and yet the BoS was dependent on the Water Merchants. I doubt that the BoS would have flexed its muscle at the Merchants, even if taking them out were nothing more than swatting a fly to them in military terms.

Passed that, it would be a worthy idea for suggesting to the creators.

I did that months ago, FS. Back when CA first started putting the FO Bible together he wanted book and movie suggestions. So I emailed him Friday as a suggestion and let him know about the relevant themes. In addition to this there is also a humans vs. mutants theme in the novel that I thought was very relevant.

OTB