M-1A1 Not Invincible?

[Radoteur]

They probably just want to have you guys stay safe. Better safe than sorry. Americans know a heck of alot more about radioactive stuff than those original testers of the Atomic bomb.
the original gangstas

Haha, prolonged exposure to combat can be detrimental to one's health. Not being able to kill the enemy quickly and efficiently can also be detrimental to one's health.

Just don't lick the tank, k?

[Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD]

Haha, having a wife for 20 years can be detrimental to a man's health also, but we can't go banning that can we? Hmmm, or can we?

its called a prostitute.

you cant tell me that lead is near as dangerous as DU. inhaling lead dust is a feat in itself. anything that burns holes clean through armor units cannot be good for anything.

you wanna go out and set up camp on a battleground full of DU ammo remains, get 5 types of brain cancer and have your testicles melt off?

[Menno]

Haha, having a wife for 20 years can be detrimental to a man's health also, but we can't go banning that can we? Hmmm, or can we?

its called a prostitute.

you cant tell me that lead is near as dangerous as DU. inhaling lead dust is a feat in itself. anything that burns holes clean through armor units cannot be good for anything.

you wanna go out and set up camp on a battleground full of DU ammo remains, get 5 types of brain cancer and have your testicles melt off?

Not to sound insultful, but did you read anything I wrote? If you're in a tank and are hit by a DU munition, there ain't gonna be much, if anything left of you anyway. Inhaling lead dust, as you said, is a feat itself. Inhaling DU is even more difficult, because it's much denser. The only reasonable way to breathe in a sufficient amount of DU dust is to be right at the site of the destruction and actively trying to breathe every particle before the dust hits the ground.

I think you're under the assumption that the entire munition is composed of Depleted Uranium. It isn't, in most cases it's just the tip portion. It's an ideal armor-piercing material, because as it pierces an object it actually sharpens itself even further. So basically we're talking about several inches of DU on each tank shell, hardly enough quantity to "fill a battlefield". During the first Gulf War, you'll hear the people spew the fact that we dropped 320 tons of DU material. DU, again, is extremely dense, making it much heavier than your average metal. So if you took those 320 tons, you'd basically have an 8ft X 8ft cube of DU.

The only way it can cause serious harm effects is if it's ingested (because it's extremely difficult to breath it in) in large quantities; but this goes the same for all of the heavy metals such as Lead, Nickel, and Tungsten. I don't need to make camp at a DU area, because people live in areas where it's been used for over 20-25 years. Like I said, if you were to examine your piss you'd realize there's uranium in it also. It's a naturally occuring substance, and we've all been exposed to it daily. DU is used on airplanes, on the bottoms of ships, etc. The Uranium in the title just scares people, when in fact it's very much like every other dense metal. Do I advocate more testing? Of course I do. But you can't make accusations unless you have solid proof to back it up, and so far DU has not been linked to any of the scare-tactics activists have been using.

[atoga]

Those are some nice facts Menno, but did you ever consider that it's proven the area where all the shells are left now is an irradiated wasteland? Perhaps you could do a little 'non-official' reading and see what you find instead of just taking what you read on these other sites as gospel. And hey, I've read reports that proved DU *was* hazardous, but no one seems to pay attention to those ones...

[Menno]

Those are some nice facts Menno, but did you ever consider that it's proven the area where all the shells are left now is an irradiated wasteland? Perhaps you could do a little 'non-official' reading and see what you find instead of just taking what you read on these other sites as gospel. And hey, I've read reports that proved DU *was* hazardous, but no one seems to pay attention to those ones...

A person can easily make a site and make fake facts, and you can easily spin any bit of information to fit your argument. I can sit here and tell you steel is extremely harmful to your body, and I can find dozens of sites online to "prove" my so-called point. But just as you said I shouldn't take what I read for gospel, neither should you. The information I provided is from several legitimate organizations (some of which I hate), and three of the four would absolutely love to stick it to the US any opportunity they can manage (I could have provided more from US sources, but I thought 4 would be sufficient). The fact that they haven't shows that DU is much like every other heavy metal. Every other anti-DU site out there spins information to fit their political agenda. "Bush for War Crimes!", "the US is dumping radiation all over us!" etc, good luck finding an unbiased opinion there.

Have you even been to the "irradiated wasteland" you describe? I have, and it's hardly the way you describe it. The bombs themselves aren't made of DU, just the tips. There were several locations during the Kosovo conflict that did have a semi-large degree of radiation, but again that was mainly due to the fact that some of the bombs NATO dropped contained Plutonium; it wasn't because of a few inches of Depleted Uranium. We're all exposed to radiation daily, and we sometimes forget how tough the human body really is. The extensive studies they did of the Kosovo conflict showed that DU contributed about 1% to the total radiation levels. However, I do advocate further testing, but at this point you can't say it's extremely harmful because there isn't proof to come to that conclusion.

[-=Felix=-]

I've read reports that proved DU *was* hazardous, but no one seems to pay attention to those ones...

Second hand smoke was proven to be safe (It's been shown to have little effect on those who ingest it) by a massive governmental panel in the past...

That was pushed aside by tree hugging animal humping health guru hippies.

Now its illegal to smoke inside in most areas of the US.

The moral of the story? The loudest whining wins.

I stand behind Menno and the facts he put forth; the use of DU munitions does not turn the battlefield it's used on into a radioactive wasteland.

DU does not adversly effect persons unless they're on the receiving end of it, which is... I would hope... the idea.

[atoga]

Whatever. Suit yourself.

I hate to burst your bubble, Felix, but second hand smoke is obviously more harmful as normal smoke, as anybody with a basic knowledge of the respiratory system can tell you.

[iohkus]

toking > smoking

[Franz Schubert]

I'm not sure what the toxicity of DU is, but I can tell you for sure that it's no more radioactive than say, a brick. Hence the term "depleted". Of course, it might be poisonous like lead or cadmium, but you can't get sick just by being around DU, because there's no such thing as a volatile solid.

[Megatron]

You probably get lung cancer from inhaling any kind of dust. It doesn't make a difference if it's cotton or HEVVY METAL!!! ROCK N ROLL!

If you're a soldier I doubt you're really worried about cancer if you're shooting somebody, probably more chance of dying from being shot in the back mebbe

[Grey Fil]

How in hell can second hand smoke be more harmful then first hand?
The burning of the "thingie" produces harmful stuff that goes inside the lung of the smoker (all those hydrocarbons and CO and stuff), some of it stays there doing the harmful damage and the rest cumes and goes out in the air where it dilutes itself with the normal air stuff and a small percentage than stuffes itself on the lung of tuff no-smokers. The damaging effect of the pernicious damaging stuff will be then in a much smaller amount, Right?

What am I missing? Where does my logic fail? Please hep me! HEP ME!

And DU is made mainly of the less radiactive isotope of U wich is only slightly radioactive. It may be slightly poisonous and induce a little bit more cancer risk to the peeple you want to kill but I think the risk is worth it.

Unless THEY lied to me again...

[Kashluk]

The way DU is harmful depends mainly (not totally, though) on which kind of radiation it emits. If it's alpha or beta it isn't any more harmful than, say, wanking or blinking your eyes. Except if you swallow one of those things, but I doubt that'll never happen to you.

But if it's gamma... well then, it's totally another story, but even the "dangerous" radiation / gamma radiation isn't that harmful in small doses. I mean, average person gets 90% of his yearly dosage from the air we breath inside buildings that has Radon (don't know the English term) gas in it. And that gas comes from the ground, which means it's natural? Nothing to worry about?

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Forgive me if I repeated something others wrote earlier, too lazy to read all previous posts.

[atoga]

The burning of the "thingie" produces harmful stuff that goes inside the lung of the smoker (all those hydrocarbons and CO and stuff), some of it stays there doing the harmful damage and the rest cumes and goes out in the air where it dilutes itself with the normal air stuff and a small percentage than stuffes itself on the lung of tuff no-smokers. The damaging effect of the pernicious damaging stuff will be then in a much smaller amount, Right?

What am I missing? Where does my logic fail? Please hep me! HEP ME!

The answer is fairly simple, and you might argue otherwise, but this is what's been found, and it does make a lot of sense.

In a smoker, most of the smoke is inhaled through the nose. Nose hairs, mucus, and other shit (I could go into more depth but I'd rather not) essentially trap a lot of the toxic stuff in the smoke. Thus, you inhale far less toxic stuff than is actually in the cloud of smoke, simply because the nose removes it.

In the case of second-hand smoke, most of the smoke is breathed in. The windpipe and mouth aren't nearly as equipped to remove harmful stuff, and it goes straight to the lungs. It doesn't matter that the smoke is 'diluted' in the air. Hence, smoking is worse second-hand.

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Another point about the DU argument - not an argument, just an observation: do you know how much DU waste is sitting around in america today? Tons and tons of it. In parts of the midwest, the government literally lets it sit out in the open air, unwatched. Do you know how profitable it is for the US government to make it into armor piercing ammunition?

[Menno]

Another point about the DU argument - not an argument, just an observation: do you know how much DU waste is sitting around in america today? Tons and tons of it. In parts of the midwest, the government literally lets it sit out in the open air, unwatched. Do you know how profitable it is for the US government to make it into armor piercing ammunition?

It's profitable in the fact that it's being used for a purpose now instead of just sitting out there in lots. It isn't just used for military purposes either, but also in airplanes and many newer boating ships, among other things. In several areas in Florida, Colorado, and where I was in Alaska, naturally occuring Uranium is in the soil. These are areas that were inhabited for generations and have shown no signs of radiation effects. Depleted Uranium also only emits alpha radiation, that can't even penetrate clothing or the skin (if my knowledge of it is correct); so it's only harmful if it's ingested in signifacent doses. So in a way I applaude the government for finding a use for this stuff instead of just having it sit out there wasting space.

[Jeff]

In a smoker, most of the smoke is inhaled through the nose. Nose hairs, mucus, and other shit (I could go into more depth but I'd rather not) essentially trap a lot of the toxic stuff in the smoke. Thus, you inhale far less toxic stuff than is actually in the cloud of smoke, simply because the nose removes it.

Through the nose? What the hell?
I've never seen anyone inhaling it through the nose :S

[atoga]

Lasse > Yeah I know, it sounds bizarro but in fact most of the smoke IS inhaled through the nose. Only a very small amount (mostly the visible, wispy stuff which you can see) goes in the mouth.

[ApTyp]

In the case of second-hand smoke, most of the smoke is breathed in. The windpipe and mouth aren't nearly as equipped to remove harmful stuff, and it goes straight to the lungs.

But... isn't it breathed in THROUGH the nose?

[atoga]

Some is, obviously, but in the second hand smoker's case, a much larger amount tends to be taken in through the mouth. So stfu

[Radoteur]

Who said second hand smokers always breath in through their mouths?
Whenever I have to breathe any second hand smoke, I try and keep my mouth closed and stay as far away as possible from the smokers.
Cigarettes are smelly and expensive. They must be really good, huh?

[atoga]

I don't care what *you* do, Radoteur, but that's how most people breathe.

Cigarettes are smelly and expensive. They must be really good, huh?

Smoke cannabis.