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Menno
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Post by Menno »

Kashluk wrote:And when you look at history, the "grand days of Europe" have always been days of unified Europe. The ancient Rome, Charlemagne's empire, Napoleon and even Hitler 'till some point (he was pretty "grand" all over Europe until he started losing, duh).
Yeah, but those empires were constructed through means of conquest; it depends which side of the coin you're on for it to be "grand". Most of Europe was looking for any opportunity break away from Charlemagne (even siding with one-time enemies), half of the world despised Napoleon, and of course we all know of Hitler. If Europe ever wishes to be unified over a long period of time, it must do so willingly; having different rules of the game for the larger countries isn't going to sew confidence from the smaller nations.
No inside borders, no customs offices, free movement of trade and people... Such wonderful ideas of a future economic basis.
Sounds very similiar to the United States. Admit it Kash, you do love America after all!
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Post by iohkus »

Menno wrote: For the United States, this whole thing is a disappointment. Not only does this mean it would have to shoulder alot of the burden that was once shared, but now Canada is more like a bystander instead of an active participant. The United States and Canada's military/government security forces used to work very closely together on a variety of defense installations and projects, but because of things such as this, things are starting to slow down cooperation-wise.

Remember, it's not the US advocating the annexation or independence of those two provinces, it's actually those two provinces themselves. When a country has 2-3 provinces threatening to leave (whether they really mean it or not), that kind of issue really needs to be addressed. From what my Canadian friends are telling me, it seems as if the government is dragging their feet addressing them.

A military is like insurance; when you don't need it you wonder why the hell have it, yet when you do really need it you're glad you do have it. It's cheaper to maintain a military continually then it is to build-dismantle-build-dismantle process over and over again.
There's a reason why Canada's army is so small and insignificant, we have no enemies in the world and would rather spend our taxes on public institutions and insuring public health, education, retirement etc... besides, with the US practicing uni-lateral pre-emptive fun, Canada has little reason to commit.

As much as Albertan politicians disagreed with Jean Chretein's decision not to throw Canada into a war (which would make us an easy target for global terrorism) it still has nothing to do with Canadians wanting to become part of the United States under ANY level. Infact any Canadian who says they wish their region was under the US borders isn't a Canadian at all and should go ahead and populate North Dakota.

And many already do and their rightist ideals won't be missed by the majority of true Canadians.

Also, most BC residents have more reason to despise the US than adore them. The lumber dispute with america has cost BC $1.5 billion dollars in revenue and jobs.

Also Albertans have no reason to like the US either considering that they lost hundreds of millions of dollars per month in banned beef exports to the US this past year. I'm not sure of the exact figures but it's pretty easy to find them.
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Post by Franz Schubert »

Keep your SARS-infected cows to yourselves you filthy Canadian fucks.
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Post by Menno »

iohkus wrote:There's a reason why Canada's army is so small and insignificant, we have no enemies in the world and would rather spend our taxes on public institutions and insuring public health, education, retirement etc... besides, with the US practicing uni-lateral pre-emptive fun, Canada has little reason to commit.
Well its not really all about joining the US in it's missions (though that's a part of it), but trust me, there will come a time when you do need that military and you won't have it since it's in shambles. If China ever did think about invading the US (in the small chance that would happen) the main path would be through Alaska and Canada. Social services, public health, education, and retirement (which are all services the United States has anyway, with a strong military) may be great, but it won't do jack shit when someone's steamrolling across your borders. Because your neighborhood is quiet for a few days, do you dismantle the entire Police force?

"You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you"--Leon Trotsky
As much as Albertan politicians disagreed with Jean Chretein's decision not to throw Canada into a war (which would make us an easy target for global terrorism) it still has nothing to do with Canadians wanting to become part of the United States under ANY level. Infact any Canadian who says they wish their region was under the US borders isn't a Canadian at all and should go ahead and populate North Dakota.

And many already do and their rightist ideals won't be missed by the majority of true Canadians.
My point about Alberta and BC not being happy with the Canadian government really had nothing to do with Iraq, because the last thing I want is whining bastards who don't want to be involved anyway; in fact it had more to do with representation (or lack there of). Western Canada, has long been tired of domination by "Central Canada" (Ontario and Quebec) and wants more autonomy. Central (or Eastern) Canada has resisted their demands for a "Triple-E Senate" � Equal (each province having the same number of Senators), Elected (the current Canadian Senate is appointed), and Effective (having real power against the all-powerful House of Commons).

Alberta is Canada's prime oil and gas producer. Ratification of the Kyoto Accord (I think they recently ratified it right?) will cost billions of dollars in Alberta, resulting in thousands or tens of thousands of lost jobs, company closures, and an economic disruption that would be inconceivable. I'm just telling you what many Canadians told me, and as I said previously, both of these provinces have seriously considered breaking apart from the rest of Canada (though not rushing to become a US state). I personally could care less whether or not Canada would join the US, but it was a nice thought though. But what if I told people who disagreed witht the current US administration "if you don't like what this country's doing, get the fuck out you liberal bastards!"? Because America is their home also, and their say matters just as much as mine. If citizens don't like the current US administration, they can speak with their vote. That's basically what you're saying to the provinces with their conservative ideals. You're telling them to get the hell out, instead of giving them the representation they desire.
Also, most BC residents have more reason to despise the US than adore them. The lumber dispute with america has cost BC $1.5 billion dollars in revenue and jobs.

Also Albertans have no reason to like the US either considering that they lost hundreds of millions of dollars per month in banned beef exports to the US this past year. I'm not sure of the exact figures but it's pretty easy to find them.
Well the US is responsible for about 60-70% of Canada's commerce, so for whatever few billions Canada isn't getting from the US, the United States is still Canada's primary customer. I think the figure is around 90% of Canada's population is situated within 100 miles of the US-Canada border.

You may think Canada has no enemies, but you are a Westerner, therefore YOU are the enemy to many in the middle east, whether you like that or not. Trust me, I've been there and you won't believe half the things they feed these guys in their state-run media and schools. I'm actually surprised they don't even hate westerners MORE from the garbage they brainwash them with. But I'm not a Canadian citizen, so what I think doesn't matter all that much. Don't get me wrong though, I love Canada, spent alot of time there, and I have plenty of friends from there. But as long as you're happy with your country, then so be it, makes no difference what I think.
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Post by iohkus »

that's a sweet Trotsky quote... too bad he got axed in the face in Mexico ):

and i have no doubt that in certain areas of the middle east people are constantly being fed alot of fanatical, fundamentalist bullshit and in other instances some people in the middle east also have a genuine reason to despise the west, namely US and Britain than any other countries
Last edited by iohkus on Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Menno »

iohkus wrote:that's a sweet Trotsky quote... too bad he got axed in the face in Mexico ):
Haha, see? That's the lesson! HE wasn't interested in getting killed, but Stalin was interested in killing HIM.
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Post by Kashluk »

Well, Menno... that's why the "grand days" were in quotes. And IIRC, I mentioned in my earlier posts, that this time we have to try building the *European Empire* with peaceful means instead of conquest.

And I don't really love America, honestly :) You got a fancy economy, but shitty social structure. I'm hungry after that economy-part to be implemented nicely in the EU.
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Post by Menno »

Kashluk wrote:Well, Menno... that's why the "grand days" were in quotes. And IIRC, I mentioned in my earlier posts, that this time we have to try building the *European Empire* with peaceful means instead of conquest.

And I don't really love America, honestly :) You got a fancy economy, but shitty social structure. I'm hungry after that economy-part to be implemented nicely in the EU.
Admit it, you love America. Our social structure is perfectly fine, unless you're a queer.
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Post by Kashluk »

Over 16% of the population below poordom level isn't fine, even for heteros.

It's a great country, but it has it's flaws, just like everyone else. It's the pro-americanism that gets me going and we end up in these nasty flamewars.
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Post by S4ur0n27 »

Nasty but tasty. They are fun and interesting to read.
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Post by Viktor »

Franz_Schubert wrote:Keep your SARS-infected cows to yourselves you filthy Canadian fucks.
Screw that - buy lovely some lovely CJD beef from us Brits! Or would you prefer foot and mouth mutton??
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Post by MurPHy »

Screw that - buy lovely some lovely CJD beef from us Brits! Or would you prefer foot and mouth mutton??
Nastiness. Eww.
Nasty but tasty. They are fun and interesting to read.
That may be, but the mods don't like it much.

And many already do and their rightist ideals won't be missed by the majority of true Canadians.
For some reason I don't think that opinion is shared by the majority of Canadians. More like the leftist scumbag minority, who is always trying to make it look like they have a lot of people on their side (and lots of votes). They don't.
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Post by Menno »

Kashluk wrote:Over 16% of the population below poordom level isn't fine, even for heteros.
16% (if that's the true figure) are below poverty level because they're either Mexicans who jumped over the border, immigrants or just lazy bastards. At least the immigrants will climb out of that hole.
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Post by Doyle »

Kashluk wrote:It's the pro-americanism that gets me going and we end up in these nasty flamewars.
I see a lot of people say that, but it's almost always anti-american sentiments that start flamewars...
Literacy is overated.
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Post by Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD »

Menno wrote:
iohkus wrote:that's a sweet Trotsky quote... too bad he got axed in the face in Mexico ):
Haha, see? That's the lesson! HE wasn't interested in getting killed, but Stalin was interested in killing HIM.

ive said it once and ill say it again, dont fuck with Stalin.
Blargh wrote:While the way in which the stance is made could be done with at least a pretense of civility - being far more conducive to others actually paying attention than copious swearing - it just wouldn't be Mandy otherwise.
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Post by Kashluk »

Yes, Menno, that's a true figure. Studying GDP and the general wealthiness of different countries was a part of our history & society - course. In US there's this small percentage that owns almost everything (can't remember the precise number.. something below 10% I think), that 16% and the rest who live pretty much average life on the financial side. But the total wealthiness is really really high. In Scandinavia, there's a very small slice of those who own a lot (but not "everything"), a very small slice of those who own very little and the rest inbetween, but the nation as a whole isn't wealthy at all.
Doyle wrote:
Kashluk wrote:It's the pro-americanism that gets me going and we end up in these nasty flamewars.
I see a lot of people say that, but it's almost always anti-american sentiments that start flamewars...
Well, that's what I said: "... that gets me going and we end up in these nasty flamewars."
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