World Map Issue

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:15 pm

Well, I've searched off and on the entire evening, and I can't find the topic(s) devoted to movement speed on the world map.

IIRC this was accomplished with Spot Channels? Did we ever figure this out?

I'm asking because the first phase of FoT: Redux is nearing completion and one of the issues is the size of the download. What certainly doesn't help the matter is that the World Map is something like 19 megs, and I'd like to chop it down. So I sat down w/RedViewer and started saving tiles as TGAs. The problem is that the test version of the map doesn't limit the player's movement on the Great Lakes, nor is there any sort of difference in speed due to terrain.

Any help is -- of course -- greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

OTB

requiem_for_a_starfury · Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:38 pm

Did you search the old forums?

Over at Interplay, JJ mentioned that it was something to do with setting transparency in the alpha channel, but since Corel doesn't allow me to save png's with channels I haven't looked into this.

Failing getting this working, and since you've taken out Vault 0 and renamed the maps is there any reason you can't use a different image for the world map, i.e perhaps a more localised map of the Chicago area avoiding the lakes etc.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:00 am

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Did you search the old forums?

No, I didn't. Do you have the URL handy?

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Failing getting this working, and since you've taken out Vault 0 and renamed the maps is there any reason you can't use a different image for the world map, i.e perhaps a more localised map of the Chicago area avoiding the lakes etc.

Well, this can easily be done, but it still leaves the issue of being able to travel overland at a constant speed. Not to mention that I'd actually have to rewrite some of the mission briefs and conversations because I've made mention of certain terrain features, like a location being on the shore of X lake, etc.

I'll hit the IPLY forums and check, though.

Cheers,

OTB

requiem_for_a_starfury · Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:15 am

linky

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:10 am

Thankee very kindly, sir.

However, --

(Don't you hate "however"?)

-- all I could find on that forum was me burbling on about alpha channels in gray scale being used for x-parency. I could swear there is a conversation somewhere in which JJ86 and/or S8 mentioned the use of spot channels to do this.

It could be that my aging brains are simply confused -- they have been known to border on addled from time to time -- or that this conversation has been deleted.

M'be time to email JJ86 since he seems to not be around much these days. But first I'll fuck w/trying to get RGB colors w/an alpha in gray scale. If nothing else...well, I've too much hair anyway...or maybe not...

Cheers for the help,

OTB

requiem_for_a_starfury · Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:18 am

He's gone away for Thanksgiving.

Have you extracted the whole of the world map and stuck it back together? If so could you make this available please, since it'll save me the effort (I've only got the first 3 rows done).

Cheers

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:29 am

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:He's gone away for Thanksgiving.

What a bastard! Hmph! Thinking only of his own pleasure like that! How dare he?!

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Have you extracted the whole of the world map and stuck it back together? If so could you make this available please, since it'll save me the effort (I've only got the first 3 rows done).

I'm in the process of it, but I have only put together the first two and a half rows, so you're farther along than I am. However, I want to get the whole thing put together, even though I'm only going to use a portion of it. While it'll undoubtedly be too big to simply email, we'll see what we can do once it's finished.

BTW, since it's 65 x 33 tiles that means there are a total of 2,145 tiles. I was going to wait till I had the whole thing together before I tackled the travel speed issue, but I'm too impatient right now.

OTB

requiem_for_a_starfury · Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:35 am

It's one of those jobs you start and then wish you hadn't.

I reckon that once it's been put together you'd be able to reduce it to a 3rd of the original size (changing the size of the locationL and locationS etc zar files) and you'd have a much smaller cam file to distribute. All the info like REs and landscape etc only affects the size of the cam file by a few kb.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:06 am

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:It's one of those jobs you start and then wish you hadn't.

I know what you mean. I started plugging away, then made the mistake of calculating how many tiles were in there...

On the plus side, I now have three complete rows, plus tiles 55-64 on rows 4-8.

Back to the bad side: I can get neither Alpha nor Spot Channels to work. This really is starting to piss me off. Of course, that only makes me want to figure this out that much more...

Requiem wrote:I reckon that once it's been put together you'd be able to reduce it to a 3rd of the original size (changing the size of the locationL and locationS etc zar files) and you'd have a much smaller cam file to distribute.

I'm going to leave the map at the same size, but the first phase of 4 missions will only contain a small map large enough to play and maneuver a bit, and the full version will only be large enough to play on. (Fortunately my version of the plot doesn't take the player all the way to Colorado and things are a bit more concentrated.)

Requiem wrote:All the info like REs and landscape etc only affects the size of the cam file by a few kb.

I noticed that when I imported the abbreviated four mission campaign txt. That's actually when this whole quest to chop the map down started.

OTB

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:15 pm

Hey guys. Awhile ago I noticed by accident that the alpha channel can be many different tones, not just clear. I think it is dependent on the color that is set for the background. If it is white then the alpha layer is clear. If it is some other tone then it is a tone of gray. I haven't experimented with it on the world map but I think that is how it works. I can throw together a sample map in psd format if you want.

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:11 pm

Ick, tried messing with it last night and no luck. Tried several different things and I got confused. If the red parts of the alpha channel are 100% opaque they are clear in the game which looks very weird. Nothing seemed to make them impassable or even slow down the passage. One thing I noticed was the alpha channel will not save with the png file if it is not in RGB mode. I also did not try to convert the png file to a zar. Maybe that is the way to do it although the game recognizes the png file.

Also looking through the FTTOOLS.exe file with a hex editor I noticed all of the menus for both the tile and sprite editors. It would be cool if it was just a matter of hacking something within that file to get them working....

requiem_for_a_starfury · Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:10 pm

I don't think the campaign editor will accept zars, IIRC it just needs the png.

Knowing my luck even if you did get the sprite editors working they'll still need raw and act files.

Did you ever hear anything back from Microforte about them releasing the editors?

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 9:00 pm

No word from Microforte. I assume they don't give a shit about us...

I bet that the sprites and tiles require png files.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:06 pm

Well, thanks for looking into it, JJ86. If you hear anything, please let me know.

This isn't the end of the world or anything, but I would like to (finally) unlock this secret.

One thing I noticed is that the only area of the map that is inaccesible seems to be the Great Lakes*, but the other areas, even the Rockies don't seem to impede travel at all. So FoT seems to be a retrograde step since even FO1 allowed for terrain to impede movement, and not just block it totally.

OTB

*I don't know why they made the lakes impassable, any way. They look dry. One would think that these would actually be very easy going, at least assuming that the lake bottoms weren't too deeply covered in loose silt...

requiem_for_a_starfury · Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:44 pm

Haven't really noticed differing travel times, partly due to the fact that I've never been one to travel around looking for RE's and SE's in FOT and probably would have put any slowdown down to my machine than anything intentional.

I don't have any saves from the main campaign at the moment but I could of sworn that there is at least one large river that you cannot cross and that the snow caps of the mountains are impassible as well.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:54 am

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Haven't really noticed differing travel times, partly due to the fact that I've never been one to travel around looking for RE's and SE's in FOT and probably would have put any slowdown down to my machine than anything intentional.

I don't have any saves from the main campaign at the moment but I could of sworn that there is at least one large river that you cannot cross and that the snow caps of the mountains are impassible as well.

None of the rivers are impassable, nor are the mountains. I have an experimental campaign set up with a bogus first mission, just so I could get onto the world map and experiment w/the map from the core campaign as well as my experimental map that I'm making. I gauged the time to travel from grid intersection to grid intersection and it was always very, very close. Not enough of a difference to account for anything other than my not having been exact w/selecting the target.

OTB

requiem_for_a_starfury · Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:55 am

9 grid squares below Brahmin Wood, there's a river that either widens out or feeds into a lake, either way a small stretch of the river is impassable going north to south. Slightly to the southwest there is another body of water I originally thought was a mountain cap (don't know why) but looking at it now I realise it's water, so yeah I was wrong about the snow caps.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:59 am

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:9 grid squares below Brahmin Wood, there's a river that either widens out or feeds into a lake, either way a small stretch of the river is impassable going north to south.

I think I know which part you mean. I was lumping that in w/the lake.

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Slightly to the southwest there is another body of water I originally thought was a mountain cap (don't know why) but looking at it now I realise it's water, so yeah I was wrong about the snow caps.

I'll check into this one. I just wish that when I exported the ZARs as TGAs that there would be something to indicate what was done.

Very frustrating when you're dealing w/2,000 tiles.

Really.

Hmph.

OTB

requiem_for_a_starfury · Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:05 am

I could of sworn that you couldn't pass the mountain snow caps, or some of the mountains to the extreme left of the map, guess I must of been really out of it when I was playing that day.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:55 am

Hey Req, want a copy of the World Map? Better yet, do you want one w/o having to sit through an ungodly x-fer time o'er the net?

It's easy. All you have to do is to open up Red!Viewer, open the CAM file w/it. Then go into "Preview Mode" by ticking the appropriate box. (It's about 1/3 of the way down along the right edge of the interface.) Now hit Ctrl + t and viola! you'll have yourself a nice, meaty copy of the FoT world map. To have and to hold, in sickness and in health...er...wait. Sorry, wrong script.

At any rate, it's a pretty damned big file in TGA format, weighing in at 47.5 megs. However, that is easily rectified w/a format change, and it certainly beats the fuck out of placing the 2,000 tiles manually. (I'm glad I tried that on a whim. Sometimes it's good that even my patience/stubborness has limits.

)

OTB