Puzzles

[PaladinHeart]

Its relevant to Fallout Tactics editing, but take a moment and recall the puzzles you've had to figure out in various games.

[bertgoldstein]

I've always hated in games that are not puzzle games lwhen they do puzzles. Like I couldn't stand the puzzle room at the end in fallout 2 until someone told me you could just pick the locks

I think it's better to have puzzles that don't look like puzzles. In my opinion the less abstract and the more it would make logical sense in real life the better.

Like it's better to find a circuit breaker in the basement to turn off the power to the security system than to have to hit the right sequence of musical note on a piano in a room six screens away to open a door (sup resident evil series).

[PaladinHeart]

I've always hated in games that are not puzzle games lwhen they do puzzles. Like I couldn't stand the puzzle room at the end in fallout 2 until someone told me you could just pick the locks ;)

I hated that maze puzzle thing too. Would have been better to give the player a way of turning off the electrical damage so you can actually think about the puzzle while not dying.

I think it's better to have puzzles that don't look like puzzles. In my opinion the less abstract and the more it would make logical sense in real life the better.

I like those myself. Its best to have a puzzle with its own difficulty.

Like it's better to find a circuit breaker in the basement to turn off the power to the security system than to have to hit the right sequence of musical note on a piano in a room six screens away to open a door (sup resident evil series).

It was in the same room. Of course, I have not yet played the remake on the gamecube. Of course, I don't think i'll be having any puzzles like that in my campaign. Hmm... did you know that you can have the clock, toilet, etc.. work as switches and/or containers and other stuff? Just a thought... :)

[OnTheBounce]

I hated that maze puzzle thing too. Would have been better to give the player a way of turning off the electrical damage so you can actually think about the puzzle while not dying.

You can disable the electricity. In the bottom right-hand room there is an exposed wire, use a Tool on it and you will be able to traverse the maze w/o getting shocked. (Of course, you have to get there first...)

Basically, my thinking on puzzles is that I am NOT a lab rat! So, please, no mazes. While these may work in high fantasy games or similar settings (Theseus had to traverse a maze in order to slay the Minotaur) if the setting is anything other than that a maze highlights the fact that you are merely playing a game and helps kill the immersion. I fumed over the electrified maze at the end of FO2. I figured there were some pasty-faced designers giggling over making the game harder at my and other players' expense, not to mention that I couldnt' see Enclave personnel actually putting up w/that sort of shit on a daily basis. Had it been a case of activated base defenses thanks to my having alerted them, that would have been different, but that wasn't the case.

The term "puzzle" is rather vague, and can encompass many things. If it's something like getting info/plans/specs that allow your character to piece together something that allows him/her to deactivate something that would be (nearly) impossible to combat, or allows defensive barriers to be lowered, I'm all for it. The thing is that these are often rather hard to implement in FoT, especially if you're thinking of relying on dialogue. (Which we know is limited to diatribes in FoT...)

OTB

[PaladinHeart]

I should have a couple demo maps ready in oh.. a couple months? They should adequately represent the style of gameplay I will be aiming for.

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

I think puzzles can add something to a game but they should be optional. If there isn't a holodisk with the solution hidden somewhere on the map then you should make the puzzle defeatable by brute force. Have a nice little reward for the solving the puzzle, and perhaps have working around it include a forfeit (either a reputation penalty, or just have it use up all your hard to come by expensive ammo/explosives etc) but don't make any puzzle a show stopper that requires solving one way and only one way before you can proceed with the campaign.

[PaladinHeart]

That reminds me. One puzzle I have made, for example, lets you kill some raiders without using up any ammo. However, the raiders can also be dealt with via combat but it would be much more difficult that way.