Fallout 3d

[EvoG]

No, it is a first person RPG, but the combat is in real time if that is what you are asking.

Ugh.

When using the first person I always believe the emphasis should be on player oriented attributes and a few token stats that will "sensibly" scale up or degrade depending on your ability.

I fucking -hated- deus ex. There's nothing more fucking ridiculous than playing a game in which you typically have a certain degree of control being relegated to pointing a weapon at someone and having the bullet fly 75 degrees out of the barrel because your "marksmanship" skill is ridiculously low. RPG craziness does not translate well to the first person.

When you first begin training with firearms, you'll notice that despite your best intentions, where you were aiming is NOT the spot that gets hit. Sure 75 degrees is a tad much, and I know you were exaggerating to make a point, but reallly the difference is measured in mere degrees, so ideally you get a hit reticle the size of a quarter on screen ( i.e. Call of Duty, RainbowSix series ). This way you're gauging your diminishing accuracy while doing such things as running, as you can surly attest to the lack of realism of pinpoint accuracy while strafe running full tilt while jumping up and down stairs. Weapon quality, skill increasing and experience slowly reduce the size of your reticle, all the way to the point of being that said marksman, and having a high probability of hitting what you're aiming at.

Either way this system has been well developed in the industry, used by a lot of shooters and is a very reasonable depiction of player skill translated through to character skill. Just like any TB game where you have a frustratingly poor small arms skill and can't hit shit, I say "jack up your small arms skill if you plan to do lots of shooting". Same goes for a FPS RPG...if you want more Quake like performance, spend your skill points on weapon skills. It translates just fine. I've done my own prototyping of FPS RPG gameplay well beyond the scope of current FPS's and its very satisfying to see the translation of real world skill to character skill, having a virtual marksman at your disposal. Makes each shot more rewarding and well earned. Its all about how well its designed, not merely judged on the concept.

Cheers

[Burnov]

No. In the context of deus ex I'm not exaggerating, which is why that game pissed me off so much, they took RPG stat-dominated gameplay way too far. I stood about seven scale feet from an enemy in that game at the very first mission with a sniper rifle and I pointed dead-on at the guy's torso and it magically didn't hit. I don't need games to make judgements based on the accuracy or inaccuracy of firearms, I've fired a range of them from a ruger .22 caliber semi-automatic to a Savage 116 30-06 rifle. I can tell you that even a old lady could point the latter at someone at seven feet and hit them, even if it did knock her onto her ass. .223 remington or 5.56 nato rounds generate far less recoil than the venerable 7.62x63mm (30-06) so there'd be no excuse for something like that happening with a lower caliber rifle either. A non match 30-06 rifle averages about 1.5 inches at 100 yards, which isn't great. However that more than rules out mechanical reasons for a weapon firing off in a erratic direction straight out of the barrel.

So, what can we infer from that? That it -must- be recoil, and the relevant inability to properly handle said rifle. Instead of doing something interesting like making the recoil highly unmanagable (to a point, I didn't fly on my ass or miss relatively close targets first time I shot one and I'm not exactly a big guy) and incrementally increase the amount of time required to respot your aim after each shot as per the person's accuracy firearms stats, they did it the lazy way. They simply didn't allow the hit to register. I am not easily amused enough to allow this to pass as entertainment. Thankyouverymuch.


In the context of FPS games. This has a far greater detremental effect because in an FPS game you're restricted to the view of that of one character in a real-time environment. The intrinsic concept behind an FPS is to experience things from a more restricted vantage point and utilize more kinesthetic abilities to negotiate your way successfully (ie: using your eyes and ears and reflexes) Unlike a turn based rpg in which you can sit back and soak up as much detail about your surroundings and what's going on as your party of characters will allow coupled with your semi-omniscient ability to gaze down upon them and their immediate area. Which is a damn sight more than looking out of the eyeballs of a guy who has some guy with a gun (or five) pointed at him. So, what we can learn from this is that giving the player as many visual cues as to what's -actually- happening are more important than in turn based RPG where one animation for a mishandled firearm would be more sufficient to depict something's awry. If you get my drift.

I like a good deal of strategic thinking in my FPS as the next man, however doing a lazy hackneyed system for firearms (deus ex) that has no basis on any sensible logic let alone absolute reality has nothing to do with thinking. At all. Basically you're reduced to decisions like this: "Ohh he looks like a tough badguy, my firerarms skill is 0.0053343fdsjfhsdf I guess I shouldn't shoot him". Yeah. That's a lot of thinking.


I suppose that was a bit of an aggressive post I wrote beforehand, I wasn't attacking the creators of the mod so much as, to be honest expressing how sick of deus ex type games I am, and how I'm getting tired of games with the Fallout name emblazoned on them falling dreadfully short of what I'd consider a quality product. Thus far I was slightly disappointed with FOT but only marginally. FO:BOS is an abomination. I don't want the mainstream and their idiotic ideas of what should be done to Fallout come to fruition. So all I can say is: Do Fallout the justice it deserves. Don't make some cheezy exploitation piece. By the sound of it you don't sound like you're going over the top with the RPG stats, so here's hoping.

[MeatPoPsicKle]

I wont place a bunch of quotes here but in reference to the above two threads. I too have been GENUINELY disappointed in the lack of innovation in the game industry. The genre I am trying to place this game in, I guess doesnt exist... yet. I thought Morrowind was atrocious. The fighting just plain sucked, I hated the SKIP when you passed from one map to another, although the illusion of a giant single map was an interesting concept, just poorly executed. At some point the 'RPG' element can also be way overused. There will be plenty of useless junk you can pick up in the wastelands, it's there to see how resourceful you are, and whether you can determine, what out of the junk is valuable to trade off whatever you are trying to pack around at the time.

But there will be no stupid logic problem quests, no 'errand boy' quests, you wont be going from one point of the map to other constantly trying to complete some meaningless task. I subscribe to the Edgar Allen Poe style of writing, every word must have a point that is integral to the plot. Don't waste the PC's time with sub plots that are not integral to the main plot(s). But there will be a certain amount of judgement on the PC's part, like figuring out when someone is wasting your time, (ie; a theif trying to distract you [he's likely not alone], a shyster trying to get something you have, someone who is trying to deliberately keep you from your task with 'smalltalk').

In any event, the reason I came in here tonight was to announce that the first alpha of the first section of a level has been released to our Beta Testers.

http://fallout3d.com/V23LQalphaver1.03.jpg

We are still accepting new Beta Testers and will continue to recruit throughout the dev cycle of this project. If you want to see the very earliest stages of this project come on over to the FALLOUT3d Forum and sign up.

http://fallout3d.com

A Caveat;

Beta Testing requires a copy of UT2003 Tournament. We will be porting over to the UT2004 editor as soon as it ships, as this engine will allow us to have vehicle physics and flight physics. Come one, come all.