My Story

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:27 am

UnKre3gle wrote:OK, now you're attacking me after I apologised, and rubbishing / belittling my work.

I'm attacking you because you obviously think everyone else's work here is so inconsequential, that you can just do with it as you please on a whim. After all, you think you did 90% of it, and the other 10% is divided up among the rest of us. What's that factor in to, us doing about 2.5% of the work each? Care to explain how I'm not supposed to be pissed off about that 90%/10% shit?

One more time, we did a lot more than you're giving us credit for doing, and DAC wasn't yours to just give away without even talking to any of us about it.

Remember about a half a year ago, I brought up that I really didn't feel like DAC was something I could call mine? I didn't really feel a part of it? Well, judging by your actions last night and what you've said earlier, I think it's rather obvious how right I was about that feeling - you think you did everything and it's all your to do with as you see fit, including closing it without even giving me any warning at all or even asking me about it.

You said at that time that DAC was as much mine as yours and Killians, but in the end, we see that what you said then and how you really feel about the thing. It's all Kreegle's, right? That's why you alone could close it and why you alone could just give it all away - even after you quit! That's bullshit, mate.

If you set out to hurt me, good work - you've suceeded. I guess we can call the friendship off after all.

You did that on your own, by your actions last night.

The funny part is, if you'd just closed it, we could have had a nice chat this morning about this, we could have all agreed that Killian did rather screw the pooch a bit, and we could have worked it out.

Yeah, I think what Killian did was bad. What Spazmo and Megatron did was pretty stupid as well. However, you took the fucking cake. Max and I didn't have anything to do with any of this, but you were going to see to it that all we did here was flushed as well. What, exactly did Max and I do to warrent this? Eh? Nothing but post news and provide content for DAC, good little worker bees, I guess, and you're the big fucking queen.

You think you're hurt? OMFG! How ashamed I should feel by that! I mean, that whole 2.5% of stuff I did was so damned irrevelent that you could just give it all away because you get pissed because Killian, Spazmo, and Megatron did something dumb. I'm amazed that I can hurt you, considering you obviously don't give a shit about anything I've done here!

And if you think one little apology from you actually makes me feel any better after this, you're dead wrong. It most certainly doesn't. You've already expressed how you feel about my contributions here, by both tossing them over to someone else without my consent, and even saying how small a part of DAC's staff I actually was. Hell, that's a rather backhanded apology considering after you made it, you made that crack about how the rest of the staff only did 10%. Saying shit like that just doesn't give me the impression you're sorry in the slightest.

You can have Duck and Cover. Keep it. You obviously care for it more than I do.

The only thing I honestly care about in all of this is how little you think of the rest of us.

All I ask is that all of my shitty tables and other worthless bits and pieces get removed from this site and passed along to NMA. Please don't leave any trace of my work being here.

Sure thing, as soon as it's replaced, it's gone.

JC · Post by JC » Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:53 am

Holy hell, I'm posting on a Fallout site again. This is nostalgia.

Anyways, yah, I'll just say a few things on behalf of myself and proclaim that my opinions matter because I was at one point, important.

Kreegle, should you still be reading this. I can both commiserate with you and your situation and take issue with the way you handled it, but to explain that I'll delve into a little history. As a true historian I'll point out some similaties between the past and the present.

The first issue of history is Vault13. It was a fun site, it was a huge site and I am perfectly happy with where it started and ended, much like Kreegle's experiences with DAC, running V13 from a little baby site that NMA wouldn't post news about (they politely declined to run a story about a dumb little fanfic I wrote) to the massive behemoth that it ended at (it takes up 6 CD-R's, rar'd) were some of the most enjoyable experiences I've had in webmastering and just in general. Running a community, especially one with the flavor and diversity that V13 or DAC has is the kind of endeavor I've always wanted to repeat. And yes, the site attracted thousands of daily readers.

But the founding of Vault13 was grounded in the kind of hate-mongering and baseless criticism that Kreegle has taken issue with. The very first article published on V13 was actually a slanderous article I wrote about another Fallout fansite webmaster. He was a bloody idiot who deserved it, but point of the matter is, V13 was always a reactionary, self-serving, sensationalist website. Throughout our times of growth, we had battles with NMA, FalloutX, a number of other sites, we posted articles bashing Feargus Urquhart and some colorful news stories about Chris Taylor. The atmosphere indeed became rather dark and depraved. The reason for this was competition, I wanted to have the biggest Fallout fansite on the net, bar none. And no one will argue against the fact that Vault13 stimulated the community and gave plenty of goddamn competition.

I can't even remember when Killian first started on V13, only that I had made a news post saying that we needed new staff and he responded. I liked him because he sounded smart and mentioned beer in his E-mail. I also found very quickly that he had the same reactionary, sensationalist, anti bureaucratic style that had been the foundations of the fledgling site. He was later fired for those same characteristics. Not that I didn't like the guy, he was a great asset to the site but I don't like things I can't control. Anyone who claims to have control over Killian is an idiot and actually DESERVES to be fucked with a buttery corn cob in the ear. Killian immediately moved on to DAC, to Kreegle, who was well-versed in the problems Greg and I had with him.

Enter Saint Proverbius. Having lost one bastard, I needed a new one. SP, at the time was an NMA forum poster who had sent me a review of the Fallout Tactics demo which was pretty much in direct contradiction of my review (I praised it). "Here's a guy who can fit the bill," I thought, "Someone who's got the same vitriol as Killian in a slightly more mature and manageable form." SP was also a great asset to the site and ran it exceedingly well during my prolonged absence from the site.

Some of you may know that during this period, V13 was having hosting problems. We had skipped off the GSN network, onto the LGN and from there onto another affiliated network. We, like DAC were not unfamiliar with the pains of finding good hosting. When our final host was going to close down, I had a decision to make. I no longer wanted to go through the trouble's of keeping the damn thing up and running while I had other priorities. I told Saint Proverbius and all the other staff. As I recall, Saint wanted to continue on with it, seeing no point in closing the site down.

For anyone who hasn't put their heart into a website and seen it flourish, it's hard to understand the attachment you feel towards it. I felt such an attachment to V13 and felt that, if I weren't in some way involved in it, I'd rather that no one be involved in it. Selfish, yes it is. And it's that same selfish feeling that I can relate to with you Kreegle.

I understood what direction V13 would take if I left it online and knew that wasn't something I wanted to leave behind. You, however, knowing the same things I knew about the character of both Killian and Saint Proverbius left your creation online. I don't know the specifics of how much control was handed over, but suffice to say that they were running the site. As such, I also agree with their point of view that trying to close it down without their knowledge was inappropriate. I don't believe you had that right and I understand their need to defend this site.

Essentially, there were two ways to go about leaving a website. I chose, the quick, direct approach. You chose what seems to be the slow and agonizing way. I'm sorry if DAC's existence will agonize you a bit further but it certainly seems to me to be out of your hands.

Sorry for the long post. And if I seem to have made any errors in this little isomorphic history lesson, fuck you, I was no good at history anyways.

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:59 am

You just wanted to fucking sell the domain and buy dope, bitch!

JC · Post by JC » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:01 am

You just wish I'd shared.

UnKre3gle · Post by **UnKre3gle** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:04 am

You've known me for a long time now, so I'd be surprised if you really do believe that spin you just produced.

I don't take credit for the entirety of DAC, I don't believe my work towers above yours in quality, and I don't think you guys are worthless. That's just you sensationalising. The 10 / 90 percent thing was perhaps a hasty comment, meant merely to indicate how much time I've put into the site over the years. It could have been worded better. It was not meant to be taken as a statement of your worth. Re-read the thread and note how many times I speak positively of you. Then count the number of times I put you down.

Then count the number of times you speak positively of me / put me down.

If you really believe I discount your contributions after reading all of that, and you really think my apology is just an empty gesture, then it's obvious you don't know me at all.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:12 am

hay doods what's going on in this thread

EDIT: I've actually read this entire thread, and I just have nothing to say. I really don't want to see this site go under, but I'm just speaking as a reader ever since Jay was running this place. I hope you guys come to some mutual decision.

I'd post a picture of Captain Kirk holding a vaguely penis-shaped rock to lighten the mood, but I don't have any hosting.

UnKre3gle · Post by **UnKre3gle** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:12 am

JC wrote:suffice to say that they were running the site.

They ran the site much like I still did - from a distance. There were times we didn't see Killzig for months. Saint's Fallout news stuck to RPGCodex, not DAC. I still helped people with forum issues, organised the submit news section, got GG behind the Picture of the Week, created new moderators when people asked for it, posted news - so for them to say I had "quit" and disappeared isn't fair. I don't know how much they contributed over the time of my so-called "disappearance", but to say I did nothing is wrong.

Good post though JC!

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:23 am

UnKre3gle wrote:*BULLSHIT SNIPPED*

If you really believe I discount your contributions after reading all of that, and you really think my apology is just an empty gesture, then it's obvious you don't know me at all.

Is there a better way I should take how you acted yesterday? Coming back after you've said you quit just to close down this site and give everything to Odin without even acknowledging I fucking exist? Seriously, hat the fuck? Did you expect me to be cool and happy about that?

andrewdane19 · Post by **andrewdane19** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:25 am

some of u all just need to chill

i agree with kreegle tho

i love tasty penis

The Gaijin · Post by **The Gaijin** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:31 am

Stay the fuck out of it, tard.

andrewdane19 · Post by **andrewdane19** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:41 am

i didnt say i liked tasty penis so some body is changing my shit i sed i love tasty penis not like

and gayjin im a member here to and i have a say & just becaus i agree with kreegle and the other guys doint mean im a tard

now ime mad so i will go have some tasty penis

UnKre3gle · Post by **UnKre3gle** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:48 am

Saint_Proverbius wrote:Is there a better way I should take how you acted yesterday? Coming back after you've said you quit just to close down this site and give everything to Odin without even acknowledging I fucking exist? Seriously, hat the fuck? Did you expect me to be cool and happy about that?

No, I expect you to be furious, and rightly so. I am genuinely sorry for not talking to you guys before I acted - and no, I don't expect you to accept my apology.

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:50 am

Okay, well, Jennifer wants us to kiss and make up or else she'll run over my foot with her wheelchair or something, so I guess I've calmed down enough to discuss this. You know my ICQ.

andrewdane19 · Post by **andrewdane19** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:07 am

immature whoever is changing my stuff

grow up and injoy some tasty penis like i do

Franz Schubert · Post by **Franz Schubert** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:13 am

Saint P wrote:Coming back after you've said you quit just to close down this site and give everything to Odin without even acknowledging I fucking exist?

Ok, I can see why you are pissed about him giving the access to Odin, but he really did have to close the site down because Spazmo and Pyro were fucking some serious shit up. In fact, I'm amazed Spazmo didn't ban me while he was at it.

EvoG wrote:Damn that was hardcore, almost like your parents fighting....

Wow, you hit it right on the head there. Hopefully they won't get a divorce, but from the way this thread has progressed, it seems imminent.

Stainless · Post by **Stainless** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:56 pm

What the hell? So. Let me get this straight. Zig thought it would be funny to give people admin power. Board gets torched (I think I came online just before it died in the arse, as the Fo2 forum I was in vanished. Good one.). Kreeg rightly gets POed at it. Closes the site, and gives Odin the FTP. Odin now has access to DAC site content. Saint gets POed over the fact he was consulted and that alot of the material being transfered is his. Saint pulls Kreeg's admin account and changes passwords on him to bar him access.

Now then. Seriously. Did everyone get their coffee spiked or something? Acting like total jack arses, trying to get their neck above the rest. It's like those stupid fucking fights 8 year olds get over who nicked 5 cents. I see where Kreegle is coming from, trying to retain the DaC content. Can't say I blame him, who knows where the fuck everything would go. Forums just went up in a fireball because Zig got bored. Lets go give everyone admin rights on the site, eh? That'll be a real fucking blast.

Saint taking away Kreeg's admin (hell, I didn't know he retired), can be understandable but for fucks sake its not making the situation any better. Everyone just keeps thrusting daggers into each other's backs and it'll end up with people getting the fuck out (as Kreegs has just done, and probibly how I will shortly after because of this shit). FFS, grow up fellas.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:01 pm

All I say is, if you hand someone you trust your carkeys of your lovely restored and mint classic car, cause you think it will be in the right hands...

... That person can respect that and cherish it, or use it in a destruction derby race.

As much as I apreciate your work Saint, and your actions might not be to blame for all this shitzniss, and your words may sound more powefull then Kreegle's, I still don't agree with you.

I started off loads of projects which I retired from or given away. But if people fuck it up willingly, I will break they're balls, no matter how big the % of they're 'new' work is.

... I said before, sometimes its like a Drama class here, negative sas pool of shit. It all piles up and explodes. I also said humans are weak, here you have another argument for it.

Why is shit so neccesairy? Why can't we all just be perfect, the same and get along?

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:49 pm

:goat:

1) Sending out fist.jpg wasn't much. Though it was pretty hardcore I reckon, it seems not everyone got it anyway and about 4 people cried about it. If you've been here long you'd probably not care anyway. If you want a different fallout site there's nma.

2) What me and spazmo did was fuck all compared too shutting down the whole site? But it looks like we're still getting blamed for it from some of the slower members. So y'know...fuck off.

3) It didn't harm the community at all. We had the most users last night and already have a lot of newer members. But it looks like they all suck. Still, it'll keep the site going. There hadn't been a new topic here in about a week except for the goths thread. Would you rather let DAC die slowly and with a whimper or have 1 or 2 hours of fucked-up stuff which brought intrest back here?

Overall I'm pleased with the result? I did what was required, everyone had a bit of fun, those who didn't count had something too say and kreegle came back for a minute. We even saw briosafreak last night in #fallout. So yea.

Kubrick 2 tha maxx.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:06 pm

Well, if we already have the V13 guys reading this thread...

Hey Greg, you remember I sent you a picture of charecters from Fallout so you can use them as avatars? You then gave me the right to choose ny own title (or avatar, I don't remember).
Anyway, V13 is closed so it isn't fair. There, just thought I'd say it.

DJ SlamÃƒÂ¡k · Post by **DJ SlamÃƒÂ¡k** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:11 pm

Megatron wrote:2) What me and spazmo did was fuck all compared too shutting down the whole site? But it looks like we're still getting blamed for it from some of the slower members. So y'know...fuck off.

While Kreegle's reaction was way over the top, it looks like some of the slower members don't realise that he wouldn't have done shit without their dicking?

Other than that I'm forced to agree, it did live things up a bit. I'm just not at all convinced it was "required".

Sure, you can say everyone's had a bit of fun, no real harm done, let's get back to normal. I'm all for that. But what's gonna happen a week from now, when everything dies down again? When you guys get bored and decide to "live things up" again?