Adventure Gamers?

[The Gaijin]

Ah, adventure games; my first was Maniac Mansion as a matter of fact. Had some really excellent music, I should probably find a wav of the theme or something. I also remember getting my brother's copy of Dig and playing it madly, but then I got pissed off when I couldn't remember how to reinstall it (I didn't know shit about DOS and he lived two thousand miles away)and forgot about it...I should probably play it again sometime.

Funny note: The first time I saw Maniac Mansion being played I couldn't have been more than 3, and the image that's stuck with me since is those goddamn tentacle plants. I'm damn near 18 and the game still vaguely gives me the creeps.

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

Yup, Questprobe and another. I want to say a Spiderman one and a Hulk one.

That's it, the first one was the Hulk, second was Spiderman and then the Fantastic Four. I never was able to finish the Fantastic Four game though, must dust off my C64 and see if I can get it to work. I think they cancelled the series after those 3, there was meant to be eight or so.

Don't recall Mystery of the Druids...

http://www.mysteryofthedruids.com/english/index.php3 It wasn't too bad, except for a maze puzzle near the end. I think the company that did Druids also went on to do a similar game, Post Mortem.

Hmmm...anyway, I'm sitting here trying to figure out why A) those kinds of adventures have been far and few between(there are the obivous answers of course)

Little or no replay value? Except games like the Monkey Island series which you can replay for the humour.

why it is that adventures out now are all contemporary murder mysteries/treause hunt type dealies rather than the colorful romps that were the core of Lucasarts games

Easier to write and the genre does lend it's self to mysteries since you have the time to take in your environment and look for clues.

[EvoG]

Well see, ALL games have no replay value. Seriously. The ONLY GAME to date that I've been able to play again and enjoy it( actually seven times) is grand theft auto 3, purely for the visceral thrill of freedom and driving and killing. Otherwise, all games have zero replayability. Just like books for me, once I've experienced the story, unless its physically fun to play, I can't go through them again as the real appeal is wanting to know what happens next. So I don't really buy that, though of course I do agree with you on the MI series as it is just wonderfully written and acted.

As for the contemporary games, sure they might be easier to write, but that leaves adventure gaming even more cliche and without imagination( the complete opposite of oldSkool Lucasarts ). Methinks that seeing a resurgence of adventure games AWAY from the contemporary and serious themes could help interest people in the stories thus getting them interested again in the non-combative nature of adventure gaming. I was just watching Harry Potter on HBO ( Sorcerers Stone ) and was marveling at how brilliant the world is(Hogwarths) that when Harry had to leave for home at the end, I felt like "damn, I certainly wouldn't want to leave this place", as they had that dolly shot showing the trainstation and the country side with the school in the background. It was(as queer as this may sound) magical...fantastical...inviting, making the 'real world' rather flat and uninteresting. This has been the nagging thing for me with todays games; no time is spent to create truely rich worlds like Rubacava and Monkey Isle. No sense of exploration. This is probably why I loved 'Beyond Good and Evil' most recently...it had a lot of those qualities.

[Megatron]

I thought Fallout had some replayability.

I've played through some games just for fun, though not many. I usually leave a 6 month gap between replays, like movies or books. Sometimes I replay it straight after, though I usually think "Hmmm...What a shitty ending..bah" and shelve it until I forget how shit it is.

There seems too be more rampage, non-linear type games coming out though (similair too gta3 or operation flashpoint). In my opinion, this is good as you get your money out of it. I think the linear 10 hour games deserve getting warezed or at least put down in price though. I don't pay £35 too see a movie and that usually has better graphics and a quarter the game-time of most games as well as not having every women with huge boobs and involving killing everything for very little reason.

sometimes.

I also like that kind of feeling of fantasticality , though it's pretty rare these days. It could be age but then again I can always watch Indiana Jones or something and get 'into it' properly. There haven't been many games which I've been happy at the end and actually watched the credits. I guess it's similair with any media, though I find it most common with books.

i'm lovin' it.

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

Just like books for me, once I've experienced the story, unless its physically fun to play, I can't go through them again as the real appeal is wanting to know what happens next.

I agree with you in part about the wanting to know what happens next, sometimes when playing an FPS, if I get fed up dying for the umpteenth time I'll use a cheat so I can move on and see how the story continues. Then I'll go back and try and beat the game honestly.

Well see, ALL games have no replay value. Seriously. The ONLY GAME to date that I've been able to play again and enjoy it( actually seven times) is grand theft auto 3, purely for the visceral thrill of freedom and driving and killing. Otherwise, all games have zero replayability.

RPGs like Fallout have plenty of replay value as they usually have several ways to complete the game and linear games like first person shooters can have plenty of replay value. I like to try and beat the game on each difficulty and sometimes I'll try and play through without getting killed (starting over if when I do). I got Jedi Academy for my birthday, so far I've completed that 6 times so far, now I'm playing through for the 7th time (2nd on the hardest difficulty) trying out one of the different saber options. So I'll have to disagree with you totally about all games having no replay value.

[EvoG]

RPGs like Fallout have plenty of replay value as they usually have several ways to complete the game and linear games like first person shooters can have plenty of replay value. I like to try and beat the game on each difficulty and sometimes I'll try and play through without getting killed (starting over if when I do). I got Jedi Academy for my birthday, so far I've completed that 6 times so far, now I'm playing through for the 7th time (2nd on the hardest difficulty) trying out one of the different saber options. So I'll have to disagree with you totally about all games having no replay value.

Well you see, I know what happens in Fallout, so I was hard pressed to really want to play it again but maybe to unlock a certain door that I was unable to with my last character or maybe choose to a different dialog option...um...no I dunno, I just don't see any point. I've played every major rpg ever made, and I've never had the inclination to play them again. Once the story was in my head, any possible new items or seeing a different reaction out of an NPC is going to offer minor difference at best. The story is still the same. Defeating the master one of 3 or 4 ways is of little satisfaction only to 'achieve' the task. This of course isn't to come down on Fallout or any game for that matter, its just that like movies and books, unless it is SPECTACULAR, and offers an energy that you can apppreciate each time you watch/read/play it, there's no real motivation(obviously my opinion).

With all this said, I can agree that adventures could have some non-linear elements that offer mutliple paths, but does this suit the genre? An adventure games strongest point is its cohesive storytelling and ability to generate genuine emotion, and the moment you introduce multiple paths, you start to dilute the essence of a story. Also consider that you're playing a designer created character, so you almost partner up with a pre-existing entity, who, if well written should have his personality well developed. This leaves no room to 'change' the character in any way such as skills or reputation/attitude, so its not like you can gain much replayability and non-linearity from different 'classes' of character.

All in all, adventure games are interactive movies, and if people still enjoying going to movies, without interaction, you'd think it'd be natural that they enjoy playing adventure games, a movie WITH interaction. This is the crux of the problem today. Adventure games have no personality, poor direction and/or cinematography and one dimensional characters. If these were mini movies, with real attention spent developing that quality, then to add interactivity with the gameworld, there should be throngs of people who at the very least would be drawn to a compelling 'story', presented as a movie, with interactivity.

Hmmmm.

[Calal]

Hmm, I don' t know Steve. Doesn' t that all depend on personal taste, experience and the atmosphere of the game in a whole, not just the storyline?

I can' t recall not having played most of my rpg' s and adventures (Broken Sword and the sequels, Arcanum, Fallout, DotT,... yes even NWN and Diablo) quite a few times. Same goes for rts games like C&C, Red Alert, Emperor and Starcraft.

Some of these games go as far as implementing an all different storyline depending on which faction you choose to play with. Thus it is an absolute must for me to play through all of these games with an other faction every time.

[EvoG]

Hmm, I don' t know Steve. Doesn' t that all depend on personal taste, experience and the atmosphere of the game in a whole, not just the storyline?

I can' t recall not having played most of my rpg' s and adventures (Broken Sword and the sequels, Arcanum, Fallout, DotT,... yes even NWN and Diablo) quite a few times. Same goes for rts games like C&C, Red Alert, Emperor and Starcraft.

Some of these games go as far as implementing an all different storyline depending on which faction you choose to play with. Thus it is an absolute must for me to play through all of these games with an other faction every time.

But see, they don't. True story driven games have to tell the main story, and any non-linearity is marginal at best, allowing you to see maybe a seperate, albeit rather shallow new ending(Dx and Dx2). You still defeat the foozle at the end of Arcanum and Fallout, regardless of your alignment and/or abilities. NWN is nothing BUT linear. Diablo and the RTS's are not even relevent, as those can be replayed for the thrill of playing them(meaning: its enjoyable to physically play, and the stoy is secondary, if even important at all).

And yes, I did say it was only MY opinion(regarding replayability), so yes, it is definitly about personal taste.

See, I want to see more graphic adventures akin to oldSkool Lucasarts. I was honestly VERY thrilled to hear about FT2 and SM2...equally as sad at the lack of vision of Lucasarts and the cancellation of FT2. The adventures out now don't spark my imagination (contemporary mysteries) and I'm puzzled as to why there are no fantastical adventures even being conceived. Didn't you notice within any genre, it all seems to be military/spy thriller/survival horror games? The 'fantasy' games all are cookie cutter vapid D&D games, rife with cliche? Give me Shrek as a graphic adventure.

Sure there's less of a market for adventure games(as the discussion we all had regarding the state of RPG's), but I'm wondering now if it isn't time for developers to not ALL try for the biggest commerical pie, thus spending enormous budgets that make it near impossible to recoup costs let alone profit EVEN if the game does well, and start spending less money, and work the niches, the solid core of gamers that can appreciate the adventure games and rpg's that tickle our cerebrum rather than our cerebellum.

Did you know that Syberia sold 350k copies? Thats outstanding for a pure oldSkool graphic adventure. The money is there...

Cheers(as atoga pointed out that I say after each post)

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

It's only really the adventure genre that has a lack of replayability due to being story driven, pity you can't wipe your memory other than by booze and the passage of time.

Diablo and the RTS's are not even relevent, as those can be replayed for the thrill of playing them(meaning: its enjoyable to physically play, and the stoy is secondary, if even important at all).

In that case any game that challenges your skills has replayability, and for many people RPGs are as much about adjusting their character and seeing how that will affect the game rather than just the story. To me the main quest (story) in Fallout and FO2 is secondary to the way you play through the game.

The adventures out now don't spark my imagination (contemporary mysteries) and I'm puzzled as to why there are no fantastical adventures even being conceived. Didn't you notice within any genre, it all seems to be military/spy thriller/survival horror games?

Well that's down to you lot in the industry, playing safe by catering to what's popular. If this was the movie industry and one game, like Monkey Island, came out now and was a huge hit, there would be a plethora of rip offs out in 6 months.

Big tip to games designers and marketing chaps lurking around, most of the lady games players I know loved the Lucas Arts games and adventures in general, as one said you can run round talk to people solve clues and not have to kill anyone. Large market there to be tapped perhaps?

Cheers(as atoga pointed out that I say after each post)

I thought that was your sig.

[evilmonkey]

About RE:

I used to disslike replaying games and rereading books, but I guess I've changed in the last years, as I'm rereading books like never before, and the games I crave more then anything are all arcade action games with for me tons of replayability.

I think the change for me came as I started playing more hi-score games actually, even the change of heart when it comes to books. I was playing some SHMUP game over and over just to get that little extra, and the thrill it gave me just sparkled this instrest in what else can be fun to really replay once you have it beat - so I started rewatching movies, rereading books, and replaying games, for example FO and FO2 along with some other games. The reason I guess for this spark was not the hi-score search, but more about seeing the beauty of constant repeat; wich sounds pretty fun I guess, but while one do repeat the general things in the path, like the overall story etc, one picks up new things all the time, even while playing Super Mario Bros or Grim Fandango. There is also the knowlage that if I really liked it the first time, so redoing it can't be bad, and you wont stop halfway wondering why you started in the first place etc.

But the reason I continue us the richness I pick up the 2nd or the 7th time, but then I read books like I listen to music, and most of it is lost once I'm through.

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

Every book I own, except the Dark Tower series, I've read at least twice. I'm saving the Gunslinger etc until they've all been published. I always seem to pick up something new with each re-reading, unless I'm just going senile?

Same with games, other than Mystery of the Druids all the games I've finished I've replayed and will often replay when I'm bored.

[Dove]

I agree on all the old LucasArts adventure games, but nobody mentioned any Sierra Online games, except Kings Quest, and Quest for Glory. Space Quest series will always hold a special place in my heart.

[POOPERSCOOPER]

I've played some adventure games and there ok, but they are pretty much all the same from what I've played in which you just find a whole lot of crap and try and piece them together with the background. I liked Grim Fandango and TLJ, but even they had "search for teh pixel" mechanics. After Finishing TLJ I just dont have any real desire to play another one, atleast not anytime soon. When I think about it games like the new Final Fantasy always get shit about how there just big movies and no interactivity, but there pretty much the same as point click adventures, but just fill in the rest with random battles and no item puzzles. Maybe their fun becuase you are playing a movie? But like a movie, its the exact same everytime.

I dont see the adventure genre coming back in force like it used to. Your just going to get a few good ones every couple of years. Most gamers today just arent entertained in the loads of puzzles that require, most of the time, guesswork. If there were lots of different paths that affected the story and more logical puzzles, it would be a long needed step forward.

I have syberia just havent got into it yet. There making syberia2 and TLJ2, but they just look like more of the same.

[EvoG]

Oh no, I LOVED all of them, especially Space Quest. I even played Police Quest until it got a little cop sim-y( I think it was 3, maybe 4).

Its just that Lucasarts IMO set the bar for incredibly charming characters, writing and imagination.

[POOPERSCOOPER]

I've played some adventure games and there ok, but they are pretty much all the same from what I've played in which you just find a whole lot of crap and try and piece them together with the background. I liked Grim Fandango and TLJ, but even they had "search for teh pixel" mechanics. After Finishing TLJ I just dont have any real desire to play another one, atleast not anytime soon. When I think about it games like the new Final Fantasy always get shit about how there just big movies and no interactivity, but there pretty much the same as point click adventures, but just fill in the rest with random battles and no item puzzles. Maybe their fun becuase you are playing a movie? But like a movie, its the exact same everytime.

I dont see the adventure genre coming back in force like it used to. Your just going to get a few good ones every couple of years. Most gamers today just arent entertained in the loads of puzzles that require, most of the time, guesswork. If there were lots of different paths that affected the story and more logical puzzles, it would be a long needed step forward.

I have syberia just havent got into it yet. There making syberia2 and TLJ2, but they just look like more of the same.

[Dove]

Oh no, I LOVED all of them, especially Space Quest. I even played Police Quest until it got a little cop sim-y( I think it was 3, maybe 4).

Its just that Lucasarts IMO set the bar for incredibly charming characters, writing and imagination.

Fair enough, LucasArts did make more charming characters.

Damn, I gotta change my avatar for these boards.

[atoga]

I never really played many adventure games. Most of the stuff you guys are talking about, I know next to nothing about.

So, suggestions?

[Calal]

Well start of with some old games which are easy to get and are probably abadonware at this time. There are a lot of great classics out there.

For instance: Beneath a Steel Sky, Full Throtle, Day of the Tentacle, Haunted Mansion, Monkey Island series, Broken Sword series,...

Well, I' m not the expert on the issue but I bet many would agree that most of these are worth playing even when considering their age.

[EvoG]

Well there's this to start :

http://www.lucasarts.com/companystore/adventure/

then each of the first 5 games on the PC list

http://www.lucasarts.com/companystore/w ... assics.htm

If nothing else at ALL, go find Grim Fandango for absolute certain, and then of course Full Throttle(might be a tad difficult), but get all of them if you can (actually I could argue the Monkey Island series is the superior choice...god they are all so good. )

These will give you the 'right impression' of why we love these kinds of games...then, if you're liking them, go for the newer ones like tLJ and Broken Sword and Syberia, as these are a tad more serious compared to the Lucasarts ones.

Cheers

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Atoga: Dont listen to these guys just download the games and get scummvm to play them. I tried ordering from lucasarts last year and they suck, after I order online there like "The product you just bought is out of stock for the moment, wait 2 months,k? lewl". So i just DLed the damned things. If you like them alot you can become a fanboy and buy them then, or you could then buy the newer games like Grim Fandango, TLJ, and Syberia since those are easier to find. As was mentioned before Beneath A Steal Sky has been released as Freeware by the company and works with scummvm. Try before you buy them since not everyone likes the point-click adventures.

At http://www.scummvm.org/ they have what u need to run and play pretty much all of lucasarts scumm games including some extras. Steal sky is in there download section. Everything pretty easy to use, since i was able to figure it out a long tiem ago.

I highly recommend Grim Fandango, its like 10 bucks too. PM if you want to talk some love.