Six New Shots From The Fall

Carsten Strehse · Post by **Carsten Strehse** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:55 pm

> if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That's what I said... Seems like you haven't read through my statement carefully.

> This is highly illogical and what you say has absolutely no bearing in reality. Silent Storm has only just been released in the United States so sales figures aren't available right now.

Ever heard about advance sales numbers? No? OK, thought so.

> It might not be selling as well as the Sims games do, but I don't think that anybody can actually expect to compete with a game that's sold over 16 million copies

We agree on that point! But give me a reason why a company that's focused on making money should develop a game like SS instead of trying to develop a game like the Sims or Warcraft or Morrwowind or NWN or KOTOR.

> It should also be noted that Silent Storm sold out on the first day of its release in the United Kingdom and several other European countries which still amount for a very large portion of the market. While I do not have the sales figures with me, I can safely say that the sales figures were high enough to warrant not only an expansion for Silent Storm (Entitled Sentinels) as well as a sequel. I ask, would a company that you claim is about to shut down due to lack of funding have the budget to make these games? It sounds like you just pulled that one right out of your ass.

You tell me that you don't have any numbers but that you estimate that the numbers are very high?

> I can almost guarantee you that an EA-produced turn based game would sell just as well, or possibly even better than their current strategy lineup.

Hey, you're right! All these guys at EA don't know what there doing. But you have a clue! One moment... I will send them an email telling them I found someone for their Sales Director position.

> you would know that women aged 18-25 consist of 40% of the gaming market...

OK, now it's getting to ridiculous for me... No more answers for you.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:56 pm

Are you blind or stubborn? I mentioned Civilization III as a TB game that sold plenty. Exitium mentioned another half dozen or so, though I do think Alpha Centauri was in 1998 or '99. I'm willing to bet ToEE sold enough to make it worthwhile for Atari, too. Meanwhile, Lionheart is a real time game that sold like shit.

Now, you're saying, "Ah! But Lionheart was crap. That's why it sold badly." And you're completely right. The point is that whether a game is real time or turn based won't have a significant effect on sales--it's a question of how good the damn game is.

If you want me to prove that developers think real time = sales, well then:

You wrote:The younger gaming generation just prefers RT (with or without pause)and I can't see anything one could do to change their minds.

Is that proof enough? No? Well, then, let's just look at the CRPGs in development today. Shockingly enough, they're mostly real time. I wonder why? Maybe we just have an industry full of aspiring SLAM DUNK!ers.

Strehse wrote:But give me a reason why a company that's focused on making money should develop a game like SS instead of trying to develop a game like the Sims or Warcraft or Morrwowind or NWN or KOTOR.

A HA! I've finally figured you out, Strehse. Your problem is that you clearly don't care about the game. You care about making money.

But that's now how you make a good game. Games are art. They're more than simple commodities to be cranked out in factories and sold to people. You can't just make whatever you think will make the most profit based on current trends. If you want to make great games, you have to make them with passion. You have to make the game you want to make, not what the focus group tells you they want.

If you can't see that, you may as well head over to EA and start developing expansions for The Sims.

Carsten Strehse · Post by **Carsten Strehse** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:02 pm

OK, guys, really enjoyed the trip! 'Hope you had as much fun as me. (I'm completly serious about that!) Let's fight on in some weeks again.

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:11 pm

So I see that you disbelieve the 40% statistic. IDSA would be in complete disagreement with you. Are you calling valid researchers liars, or are you just making bold claims without an ounce of data to back you up?

Here's the IDSA release, by the way:
http://www.womengamers.com/interviews/idsa.html

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:14 pm

P.S. How nice of you to completely ignore my STATISTICS and FACTS about the SALES FIGURES of Civilization 3, a top-selling turn based game.

I'll look forward to your return, Brave Sir Carsten (who ran away).

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:14 pm

You douche, can't you answer the questions?

I know it won't give you any money, but for the readers' pleasure maybe?

LlamaGod · Post by **LlamaGod** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:15 pm

Carsten Strehse wrote:> Hmm, Real-Time sells, you say.

Who said that? Seems like you read another forum than me.

You did, dummy.

> Certainly didnt work with Soldiers of Anarchy there.

Uh?! SOA sold very well worldwide. What makes you think something different?

Right. http://www.pcgamereview.com/PCGames/Sol ... 64crx.aspx

And lo, a big website! http://www.avault.com/reviews/review_te ... =soldanarc

Then the large magazine Computer Gaming World gave it a 50%

Hmmmm.

Well, if you would be able to read other languages than your own you would know that SOA got much better reviews worldwide.

Right. Too bad they dont see to exsist according to Google, even using forgien Googles.

Thanks for the tip!

Yes, quite a lovely smilie. The same one we use when you say you get Puuk, the same one we use when you talk about The Fall, the same one we use when you talk about obtaining Fallout.

But give me a reason why a company that's focused on making money should develop a game like SS instead of trying to develop a game like the Sims or Warcraft or Morrwowind or NWN or KOTOR.

So why make games at all? Personally, i'm tired of seeing shitty games, especially shitty Post-Apocalypse game and very specially tired of seeing shitty RPGs. Become telemarketers, stop littering with your garbage.

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:20 pm

More facts to add:
Shogun Total War, Medieval Total War, Heroes of Might and Magic 3 and 4; all of these turn-based games or at least partially turn based games have sold more than a million copies each.

Carsten, you have no reason to act like a douche. You'll have an excuse when you're a successful game developer but not before then.

By the way, here's one last title to completely blow your 'argument' away: JAGGED ALLIANCE 2.

Role-Player · Post by **Role-Player** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:26 pm

Carsten Strehse wrote:We agree on that point! But give me a reason why a company that's focused on making money should develop a game like SS instead of trying to develop a game like the Sims or Warcraft or Morrwowind or NWN or KOTOR.

Because SS proved that a somewhat unknown title can receive a good degree of critical acclaim, that success among some of the more mainstream players is still possible, and that despite being yet another product in a market infested with similar titles, it still presents enough content and fun to compete with some of them - without really resorting to the almost anything (if anything at all) that those games presented. Do you believe your title will be more acceptable because it has one element which is shared by other best-selling games? Thats an illogical concept. Or do you think its because its made with the intention of competing with/aspiring to be as successful as those titles you mentioned? The above titles you mentioned sold for various reasons, and i can almost guarantee that a RT, or RTWP system, was not the cause. KoTOR primarily sold because its a SW game. Morrowind, because of the vast gameworld. NWN, because of the toolset and and online capability. The combat system in those three, specially in Morrowind, was quite weak, and the other 2 were RTWP. Unlike what you think, a RTWP system wasn't the selling reason for those games.

MeatPoPsicKle · Post by **MeatPoPsicKle** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:45 pm

If you guys want to see some new TB games, go make them yourself. Hell any of those old classic DOS based games could be programmed by any junior high school student now adays. Instead of wasting a dev's time who is trying to put out a product, if you are stuck in the technology of 20 years ago, take 3 months read a book and go program one yourself. Then you can come in here and we can tell you how piss poor of a job you have done.

Role-Player · Post by **Role-Player** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:59 pm

MeatPoPsicKle wrote:If you guys want to see some new TB games, go make them yourself.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Instead of wasting a dev's time who is trying to put out a product, if you are stuck in the technology of 20 years ago, take 3 months read a book and go program one yourself.

If the technology of 20 years ago still beats technology of 5 years ago, then what is the point of using something new? Catchphrase of the day: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Also, i'd like to know why TB is apparently old-fashioned because of the time it has, given RT has almost, if not the same, time frame. In fact, i'd like to know how is RT, or more precisely, RTWP, more technologically advanced than TB; and also when did it's technological advancement mattered, given Carsen stated back there his decision to use RTWP was aimed at commercial success?

I also find amusing how every time people give input on something, they're "wasting the dev's time", when the devs in fact come to us. If they can't take criticism or suggestions, perhaps they shouldn't bother, or feel offended because they don't like what we have to say.

Then you can come in here and we can tell you how piss poor of a job you have done.

So, you only accept criticism of those that work in the same field as you? Or is having knowledge of what you do excusable if what i say of your work is favourable? Never dismiss people's views with asinine comments implying they need the same level of expertise as you to pass judgement on your work, otherwise what you do can never be judged by fans of your work. Or again, will you accept the comments of those that go along with everything they're given?

POOPERSCOOPER · Post by **POOPERSCOOPER** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:27 pm

I thought it was funny when he said "U DonTE SPEAKY OTHER LANGUAGE SO U DONT KNOW SOA MAKE GOOD REVIEWS LEWL". SOA getting better reviews than SS, its real cute. This guy is just a joke, another fucktard trying to appease the fans by talking to them thinking that he will gain support by doing so. Perhaps he should go to the IPLAY forums and try and recruit more FO fans to TEH FALL, since obivously its the next in good games.

Meatpopsickly, your game is going to be shit and we already discussed why in your UBER topic about FO 3d. Perhaps you should go to teh Fall forums because they like to swallow there.

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:36 pm

An idiot who thinks too highly of himself wrote:If you guys want to see some new TB games, go make them yourself. Hell any of those old classic DOS based games could be programmed by any junior high school student now adays. Instead of wasting a dev's time who is trying to put out a product, if you are stuck in the technology of 20 years ago, take 3 months read a book and go program one yourself. Then you can come in here and we can tell you how piss poor of a job you have done.

Thank you for your lovely insights.

If I understand you correctly, you're stating that people have to be game developers before they have the right to express their opinion on the subject of games. I find this claim ridiculous. It's like stating that people without any experience in cooking have no right to complain about bad food. Well, here's the thing: people have tongues to taste, and you don't need to have cooking experience to know what food tastes like. Just the same, you don't need to be a game developer to play a game, or experience it as 'fun' or 'boring'. Games, just like food, is meant to be consumed by an audience. If the audience disapproves, you just have to deal with it.

I'll go on record to say that I am credited as a game developer in Lionheart and have 7 months of experience as a chef, and served as an executive chef for a function so don't tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. I've played games long enough to know a bad game when I see one.

You should also know that most people license engines that other people make and do not develop their own for the purpose of game development.

How's your pipe dream coming along, by the way?

Role-Player · Post by **Role-Player** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:40 pm

Exitium wrote:*masterpiece*

MeatPoPsicKle · Post by **MeatPoPsicKle** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:43 pm

It's coming along well. 7 whole months huh, wow. :O

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 8:35 pm

That's nothing. Reflexive made a piss poor game in half the time. What's taking you so long?

MeatPoPsicKle · Post by **MeatPoPsicKle** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:38 pm

Exitium wrote:That's nothing. Reflexive made a piss poor game in half the time. What's taking you so long?

Perhaps I've set the bar a tad higher than 'piss poor'.

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:52 pm

Piss lower-income bracket?

Carsten Strehse · Post by **Carsten Strehse** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:11 pm

Hey, back again!

But only for a short note.

@MeatPoPsicKle
You shouldn't take this whole thing too serious. The guys defend their point of view and we have to defend ours. That's all. Don't take it personal or something.

SOA Reviews (only some and in no special order)

Gamesurf - 87%
Video Game News - 89%
Gamestar - 81%
Gamigo - 86%
Konsolen-World - 84%
PC-Games - 84%
Gamesweb - 84%
PC-Action - 82%
IGN - 80%
Spiele Galaxy - 87%
4Players - 81%
Gamecenter - 85%
Krawall - 81%
US Military - 5 Stars
GameSpot - 81%
Spieleflut - 87%
TechTV - 80%
DailyGame - 80%
SK - 82%
PC Gamer Sverige 87 %

Overall the game got 11 awards and sold nearly 400.000 units worldwide. The very good reviews out of Japan, Korea, Taiwan etc. are missing (difficulties to post them). Details in the review section at www.soldiers-of-anarchy.com.

POOPERSCOOPER · Post by **POOPERSCOOPER** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:25 pm

SOA http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/561371.asp- Average is 72% out of 15 reviews.
User ratings- Average 7.5 out of 32 votes

SS http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/557924.asp- Average is 81% out of 23 reviews.
User ratings- Average 8.0 out of 110 votes