Six New Shots From The Fall

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:26 pm

How about posting the bad?
Computer Gaming World - 50%
Gamers.com - 50%
"Soldiers of Anarchy does offer a mission editor and multiplayer game for online competition with up to eight players. But does this make the game worth playing? Maybe, if you're either extremely patient or a diehard fan of the RTS squad-based tactical genre. However, my advice is stick with Fallout Tactics. You'll thank me for the money you'll save."
Gamer's Hell - 65%
"This game is hard to compare against any other. A new step in the lagging Tactical genre, the only comparable game out there is Fallout: Tactics. As interesting as this game is, tho, lets face it. SOA is not Fallout: Tactics. A game with great potential, frustrating gameplay makes me suggest the bargain bin."
Next Level Gaming - 67%

Some of the reviews mention that the game has the 'makings' of a good game, but don't specifically mention why anyone would be interested in it unless they're hard up for strategy games or 'want to try something different', which for the most part implies how difficult it is to like the game.

The game only sold that many copies because it hit the bargain bin just a few weeks after release. I wouldn't be surprised if FOBOS sells equally well due to its low price, either. Good games don't need to be budget cost to sell well. The bottom line is that it is simply cheaper and more economical to pay 9.95 for a game instead of renting it for 4 dollars less.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:27 pm

Oh, I see. So when SoA sells fairly well in foreign markets like Europe and Russia, it ships 400,000 units, but when Silent Storm sells like hotcakes in Russia and the UK, it's only a tiny portion of the market and doesn't really reflect how well the game does. How convenient!

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:27 pm

You should also know that most gaming sites couldn't even be bothered to review your game. Compare the 15 reviews in English of Soldiers of Anarchy to the 23 (and rising) of Silent Storm, which has countless more reviews in other languages.

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:34 pm

Also, I'd like to know where the SOA fanbase is. Silent Storm developed a rather sizable fanbase even before the game was out but SOA, with all of its nifty map creator features doesn't even seem to sport a single fansite.

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:41 am

Carsten Strehse wrote:> It might not be selling as well as the Sims games do, but I don't think that anybody can actually expect to compete with a game that's sold over 16 million copies

We agree on that point! But give me a reason why a company that's focused on making money should develop a game like SS instead of trying to develop a game like the Sims or Warcraft or Morrwowind or NWN or KOTOR.

Because there's dozens of Diablo clones, Warcraft clones, and even Baldur's Gate clones(You made Gorasul, remember?) that have gone on to sell exactly JACK SHIT.

Furthermore, I don't know where you're getting the idea that Nival might go broke. They're only one of the largest development houses in Russia, after all.

FURTHERMORE, and while we're on the subject of turn based not selling - Carsten, why is it that you seem to have been quite intent to call the game turn based when it was first announced? If real time with pause is SO GREAT and gamers will simply flock to anything that uses it, then why on Earth would you call the battle system, Simulated Turn Based as opposed to Real Time with Pause?

You tell me that you don't have any numbers but that you estimate that the numbers are very high?

At least he's HONEST about saying he doesn't have the numbers in front of him. I have yet to see anything proving anything you've said on the subject.

Like has been pointed out, there is an expansion pack in the works. You say that expansions are cheap to make, and that's true - but they only sell to people who have purchased the game! If few have bought the game, then I can't see JoWood greenlighting an expansion pack. After all, most expansions sell fewer copies than the original game did. So, even at the cheap cost of development, you have fewer than few buying it, right? At a much cheaper price, no less. The fact of the matter is this, if Game A didn't sell, then Expansion X for Game A won't sell either.

Retailers would know this as well, and be less likely to invest shelf space in the title. They already don't like expansion packs much because they don't net the same volume of return for the amount of shelf space they take up. So, if JoWood didn't think it would sell and if retail outlets didn't think it would sell either, then JoWood wouldn't be able to get any retailers to put it on the shelves anyway.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:05 am

You're also forgetting something else: Silent storm is a very fun game. I think you should care more about that than making some BLING BLING yo.

You're also a very annoying asshole. You could at least argue your point instead of repeatedly posting your bullshit throwaway comments followed by smileys. Fuck off.

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:51 am

What I'd like to know is where he pulled that "Silent Storm has only sold 15,000 copies world wide" statistic from. I'm guessing it was some place dark, dank and smells of shit.

To Carsten:
Lionheart sold a total of 24,000 copies, including retailer and rental house copies. Surely you cannot expect me to believe that Silent Storm has sold 9000 copies less. Hell, being in the game business you must know that most if not all stores tend to stock up on highly rated games because their managers do, in fact, check out sites like GameStats and GameRankings and particularly pay attention to magazines like PC Gamer and Computer Gaming World, both of which gave Silent Storm very high ratings, unlike CGW's 50% assessment of your own product, Soldiers of Anarchy.

Silent Storm is currently a top 10 best seller on EBGames.com so that says quite a lot about its sales in the United States alone. I wouldn't be too surprised if it broke the 300k sales mark worldwide.

MF · Post by MF » Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:23 am

This guy suffers from a terrible syndrome. I remember him asking Killzig's age. Let me counter that question : Do you have sex?

Honestly, there's more to life than convincing a stubborn online community that you make the perfect game. It's simply quite useless to argue and defend every point people make about certain fallacies that have crept in your game so far. It's more useless, even counterproductive to retaliate and argue that making money is your prime directive on a site full of people that consider games an artform.

That said, I admit I like the look of the world in the screenshots.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:45 pm

Hey Carsten...

1st off nice work on the entire project mate, looks good. Definetly buying it here.

Funny thing developers always end up feeling hated or complaining about the fuck, puke etc, but that's just how peeps are here.

Anwyays, its all hot air, and if your not an eskimo go through it and you will find some usefull ideas I bet.

I aint a designer, so I can't tell you what I would want to see. It just looks very static and spacy to click. You could actualy remove all the room between slots and buttons etc and make it half the screen. Would be cool if you could drag em around aswell.

As far as the avatars, they look very nice in the big, but resized they look really the opposite, crappy. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but it just does IMO.

Like I said, definetly worth a buy, only hope It will feel and look alittle less static.

Later.

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:58 pm

Excuse me, but... what the fuck are you going on about, Silver? It's definitely worth the buy based on what? Based on the fact that he comes here as a developer and we have to shower the almighty game developer with praises and heartfelt gratitude towards his presence?

What the fuck are you on about?

Funny thing developers always end up feeling hated or complaining about the fuck, puke etc, but that's just how peeps are here.

That's just how the people are here? Why the fuck are you telling him to ignore us?

Anwyays, its all hot air, and if your not an eskimo go through it and you will find some usefull ideas I bet.

Still not getting the point? Carsten does not want our ideas. He thinks he knows better than we do (go right ahead and suggest that he does because he's an almighty game developer and knowing things is reserved for the almighty game developers.)

As far as the avatars, they look very nice in the big, but resized they look really the opposite, crappy. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but it just does IMO.

What the hell are you apologising for, son? You're the consumer. You don't owe him shit.

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:44 pm

If I remember correctly Carsten asked what people thought of the interface graphics. The majority don't like the avatars and the artist in charge of those is supposedly going to "look into" them or something (but I doubt anything will change

). Others asked if we can control the transparency and we can. Or if we're able to close windows altogether and we can.

That's just how the people are here? Why the fuck are you telling him to ignore us?

He didn't. Hence the followup:

...go through it and you will find some usefull ideas I bet.

Ex, you gotta cool off man. You're beginning to sound like this shit actually matters and it's getting really fucking boring. And you're not the only one. It's just another stupid game. They're all stupid games. If you don't give two shits about The Fall and already decided it'll suck ass then congratulations. But if you're gonna dwell on every stupid thing someone says that isn't even directed at you then you gotta find a new hobby.

As for my opinion on the interface, I think it looks ok. The avatars definitely need work or taken out altogether. But I'll be happy (and others, too) if I can make most of the thing disappear.
My only significant gripe is the ridiculous Baldur's Gate style combat. I put up with it in BG1. I hated it in BG2 to the point where I couldn't finish the game, and that was the last released RPG I touched since. Chances are I'll hate it more with The Fall's emphasis on ranged combat.

If you already decided to buy the game you're a moron. But if you already decided it's gonna be shit then you're a jerk. If that's your thing cool. I'm gonna wait before getting more gray hairs.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:45 pm

Exitium wrote:Excuse me, but... what the fuck are you going on about, Silver? It's definitely worth the buy based on what? Based on the fact that he comes here as a developer and we have to shower the almighty game developer with praises and heartfelt gratitude towards his presence?

What the fuck are you on about?

Hey phat little gimp, did I ever ask you something? Go hang yourself on your PEPSI jacket, fool.

That's just how the people are here? Why the fuck are you telling him to ignore us?

I ain't telling him jackshit, and you can take those words anyway you like them, up your ass I bet.

Anwyays, its all hot air, and if your not an eskimo go through it and you will find some usefull ideas I bet.

Still not getting the point? Carsten does not want our ideas. He thinks he knows better than we do (go right ahead and suggest that he does because he's an almighty game developer and knowing things is reserved for the almighty game developers.)

Ohh Mr. Prejudice of the year 2004, go get the new PEPSI fasion man. Must be free and cool.

I respect him for what he's doing. He has achieved more then you will ever achieve you buttfuck.

What the hell are you apologising for, son? You're the consumer. You don't owe him shit.

Son? I am so fucking old I made your fucking grandma pregnant of your momma, boy.

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:47 pm

Wipe that jizz off your chin, Silver.

Try sticking to the points instead of making stupid references to pepsi jackets.

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:50 pm

You're 17 years old, tops. Yeah, that's real old, son.

By the way, is Carsten's penis tasty enough for you?

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:05 pm

Carsten wrote: A good example for a new (and great!) TB game that isn't selling is Silent Storm. All reviews are between 80 and 90 % and everybody was talking about it, but nobody except the TB fans buy it. The game is really huge fun, but nobody cares. The dev may go broke.

Hey, guess what. I just talked to one of the Russian development houses competing with Nival. I brought this up about Nival doing so poorly. I asked them if Nival might be broke soon. The reply was, Why would they? Nival is one of the best development houses in Russia. When asked if they knew anything about the sales figures, the reply was, a LOT, actually, and it was mentioned that it was voted as the best game of 2003 in various reader polls for European publications. It would seem to me at least some of those people who voted for it would have probably bought the game in enough number to actually beat out other games.

When I explained why I asked, the person in question replied that what you had to say on the subject of Silent Storm was like the fable of the Mos'ka and the Elephant. A Mos'ka is a small, tiny spec of a dog. Anyway, the mos'ka noticed an elephant walking down the street. The mos'ka ran outside and started barking at the elephant. The elephant didn't notice, but kept walking away from the mos'ka, and so the mos'ka felt very proud.

You're the mos'ka, Carsten, and Nival is the elephant. Yap yap yap yap.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:20 pm

Elephants also live about 8 times longer than dogs, omg FABLE=REALITY

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:34 pm

SoA's 80% means nothing tho, didn't FOPOS get one or two 80%?

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:18 pm

Silver's arguments suck, Rex, but I must say that's a really fucking funny picture of you.

Bobbin · Post by **Bobbin** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:21 am

Exitium wrote:Shogun Total War, Medieval Total War

Rome: Total War is gonna be a RTS (http://pub133.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalw ... 2341.topic). Wonder why.

Exitium wrote:Heroes of Might and Magic 3 and 4

3DO is sold out and currently the new owner doesn't think of doing another HOMM (http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfis ... _en&tt=url).

Exitium wrote:JAGGED ALLIANCE 2

Sir-Tech is dead. Strategy First is talking for over one year to do another Jagged Alliance without anything happening.

I think most of you never played SOA. It's a fun game and it shows that Silver Style has learned from Gorasul. It has its problems in the voice department but otherwise the game has a very well designed interface and good missions.

As much as I love TB I'm pretty amazed how stubborn people are around here to defend games like Silent Storms as if they were personally engaged with them. Here in Germany Silent Storm is ranked 1300 at Amazon and outsold 6:1 by the Fallout Collection which is ranked 220. Doesn't sound succesful to me. 300k worldwide? What an impressing number. Success in Russia? Hey, the most important market in the world.

I also find it funny why people constantly bash on the only COMMERCIAL developer which still does pa games (SOA was also one). I think Carsten should back out and do fantasy stuff, sells much better and fantasy fans are not so whiny about their genre.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:34 am

Bobbin wrote:*bs about the Total War games*

Those have always had an RT component. They're TB in the strategic mode and RT in the tactical one.

*bs about Heroes of Might and Magic 3 and 4*

HoMM5 is currently in development.

*bs about TB games and SOA*

Soldiers of Anarchy was awful, fucknut. RT games have their place in the market, but so do TB ones.