fallout versus Baldur's gate

[Role-Player]

Baldur's Gate 2 only focuses on the feeling of D&D. The party-based gameplay, the setting and the overal storyline where you have to be a hero. Even the triumphant music of BG2 and ToB adds to this effect. Its munchkinized D&D to the max. However the problems are many. The storyline gets in the way of your roleplaying in painful ways. Roleplaying is quite non-existant most of the time. It gets worse when you realize that the dialogue choices are mostly void of any meaning, and that only one or two options actually matter, as the rest is just filler. Its sad to imagine people at Bioware working in five to six dialogue choices which all have the same outcome or answer (blatant example when talking to Aaron Linvail).

Its not a specialized game as Fallout is. FO is obviously more character-driven, shockful of roleplaying options; something BG2 isn't.

[Mismatch]

And, even though BG is a far worse game than Fallout1 && 2 it still is much better that for instance Lionheart, upon which i almost vomited.

No existing RPG:s can rise to challenge thew FO1&2, and now with fallout3 cancelled, perhaps no ever will.

But hey, who knows, as they say "Even a bling swell guy can find an ass."
Perhaps we will live to see that day.

[Bleusilences]

Well it's just an opinion, in Fo2 you have a bit more controle over your npc(enough to keep them alive until the end) and that's make comba more enjoyable. The point in this topic is to state your oipinion and bring interesting point, not saying Ng2 suck cause there is sword and no gun. I kind of like what bioware and black island made, with the exception of lionhart, FOBOS(not sure is made by black island) and Neverwinter Night. The other where at bear minimum, enjoyable.

[Phias]

To respond to the topic at hand...

There is NO comparison when looking at the masterpiece that is Fallout and the art that is Baldur's Gate...

Both appeal to a different demographic: Fallout for a more mature and intelligent audience, while Baldur's Gate was likely marketed towards adolescents and children, people who would probably be attracted to Dungeons and Dragons.

Fallout was a masterpiece for many different reasons, one being it's non-linearity. You were not restricted to any one class, the game was very replayable, statistics actually affected development of your character, and so on. Baldur's Gate was obviously linear, and it dragged on forever too. It had repetitive combat, intelligent dialogue for a character with abysmal intelligence, and it was very difficult to last long with a weak mage with a mere 4 hit points.

The two games are too different to be fairly matched.

[Kashluk]

But they both claim to be "award-winning RPG"s, so I think it's fair enough we compare them As we all know, Fallout shines like a gift from heavens when compared to BG-series.

[Phias]

I bet some money floated under the table when Baldur's Gate received an award of any kind. It was mediocre, not exactly horrible, but not a "classic" by any means.

What really angers me is that Baldur's Gate is always considered to have "been the driving force in the rebirth of RPGs", when I believe Fallout may have the honor there.

Makes me wonder why the fucking bloody hell I bought Knights of the Old Republic for.

[atoga]

Ever played D&D? Well, the rules suck, as do the settings. (Except Planescape, which is pretty innovative and rockin'.) Anyway, after playing it for years, I can tell you that it's a crappy, largely pointless game.

And BG is basically a D&D campaign with a bad, fairly mundane plot and bastardized rules system. Think about that. Play D&D instead or - get this - pick up a quality RPG that actually involves roleplaying.

[LlamaGod]

Shitty story
Shitty linearity
Shitty combat
Shitty characters
Shitty setting
Shitty gameplay
Shitty dialog

It's not a shitty story, it's just told in a really shitty way.

I recently installed BG II after somewhat of a BG hiatus and I was so bored I didn't even bother trying to get out of Irenicus' prison. The combat system bored me. Didn't have that small strategic factor of the Fallouts.

For some bizarre reason, long swords and studded leather armor didn't appeal to me. Hunting Rifles and Combat Leather Jackets own. The Game Rules for BG II also blows majorly. If I know how to slice and chop with a ninja-to, can't I do the same with a longsword?

BARDS AND SAVORVAK OWNZ!!!!111 THE MASTA IS TEH PUSSY COMPAR3D TO IRENICUS!!11 LOL!!

It was Star Wars, man.

[Hertston]

Ever played D&D? Well, the rules suck, as do the settings. (Except Planescape, which is pretty innovative and rockin'.)

Sadly "D&D" has the rep... a completely undeserved one as (virtually) every paper RPG released since D&D's original publishing has vastly superior game mechanics. If you don't believe me, go play Call of Chulhu or M.E.R.P (can you still get that ?) for a few hours. There's no need to use paper rules in a computer RPG at all, of course, but if you must at least use decent ones. D&D (or AD&D in it's various incarnations) is a roleplaying dinosaur, with cardboard cut-out "fantasy" settings to match.

Use AD&D settings and rules, you get Baldurs Gate. Have the balls to chuck away both and use a decent rule-set and game-world and you get Fallout, or Morrowind - and any tosser who voted for Neverwinter Nights ahead of Morrowind needs shooting

Bioware would produce the best RPGs out there if only they could dump the AD&D obsession (and license, presumably). It's still there in KoTOR (with a Star Wars skin, obviously) for some totally incomprehensible reason. KoTOR is still a great game, but despite those rules and not because of them - some of the "to hit" and damage stuff is just idiotic.

[CloudNineGT]

I dont see a problem with the d20 system. Its simplicity makes it easy to adapt to any setting, and the rules are basic enough that a new player can jump in easily without having to know every mechanic.

[Core Puzzle]

Combat in BG fails on so many levels. Magic is much overpowered, and can make or break any fight in mere seconds, in a most boring and frustrating way. And then there's the fabulous real-time ACTION PACKED PEE-WEE melee combat. Composed mostly of fake filler swings, and actual swings that never hit, you'll be looking at your characters for days as they try to defeat a couple of gnolls. But hey, if all it takes is a moving sprite to get your water boiling, far be it from me to take that away from you.

It gets worse when you realize that the dialogue choices are mostly void of any meaning, and that only one or two options actually matter, as the rest is just filler. Its sad to imagine people at Bioware working in five to six dialogue choices which all have the same outcome or answer (blatant example when talking to Aaron Linvail).

This was actually my biggest gripe with BG. Not only do you have 4-6 dialogue options that lead to 1 or, at most, 2 different answers, you have dialogue that cannot, by any means whatsoever, be ended by you, unless you choose the dialogue option Bioware WANTS you to choose. I think about half the game's critical NPCs suffer from this infinite dialogue loop, as does half the game's non-critical NPCs. I swear, there were times when i tried mashing my numpad in a completely random fashion during dialogue. After about 15 seconds i must have hit the "right" reply, since i was allowed to continue. Pretty hilarious, in a pathetic sort of way.

But then, i remember a Bioware designer who once said different dialogue branches are pointless, because it requires you to write three times as much dialogue...

Bioware would produce the best RPGs out there if only they could dump the AD&D obsession

What makes you think that?

[Kashluk]

Yeah. KOTOR was a decent adventure game and it was set in the Dungeons and Dragons only in means of combat system / character development. No fantasy or magic there (of course you could say it's replaced by the Force...), but still it's not even close to the best RPG out there. Hell, there isn't much roleplaying in it at all. So at least with only "half" the obsession to AD&D they haven't managed to creat the best RPG evah, so I doubt they'll do any better without anything involving AD&D.

[Role-Player]

This was actually my biggest gripe with BG. Not only do you have 4-6 dialogue options that lead to 1 or, at most, 2 different answers, you have dialogue that cannot, by any means whatsoever, be ended by you, unless you choose the dialogue option Bioware WANTS you to choose. I think about half the game's critical NPCs suffer from this infinite dialogue loop, as does half the game's non-critical NPCs.

I wouldn't even mind if they just did 2 to 3 lines of dialogue with clearly visible "good" and "bad" paths, or "nice" and "bitch" replies - they just needed to include differences in answers and outcomes. Its as if Bioware didn't want people to fail their quests so they just gave the illusion of meaningful choice and outcome.

I swear, there were times when i tried mashing my numpad in a completely random fashion during dialogue. After about 15 seconds i must have hit the "right" reply, since i was allowed to continue. Pretty hilarious, in a pathetic sort of way.

One day i'll try to replay the game and see how many dialogues you can bypass by just clicking on the same number until it's over. I only tried it once, with that guy Rielev (sp?) in Chateau Irenicus, who is inside the huge jar/test tube. Its the guy who midway trough his conversation thinks you're Irenicus and begs you for release. From the initial dialogue choices to the last, i just kept pressing "1". It got me safely trough the end, and gave me the power cells. How many more work that way? Time will tell.

[Bleusilences]

They will break their own mold by doing jade empire.

[LlamaGod]

Yet they jump into a new one by making some half-assed Diablo clone on a console.

[Mismatch]

Yet they jump into a new one by making some half-assed Diablo clone on a console.

I suppose one should be thankful that it's on console. But they should hurry if they really want to do it, coz right about now the gay train is leaving the station.

[Viktor]

I actually enjoyed BOTH Fallout (1, 2 and FO:T..) and BG2. Ain't it fun being in your own demographic!

As they're very different games, you can't make much in the way of direct comparison to say "Wot RPG am best" as you can with MoH:AA and CoD, for example.

[S4ur0n27]

You're not alone in your demographic Vik.

[Phias]

BG2 was a more developed and finished BG1, and I prefer it to the original. It's story was more interesting, but it's core gameplay remained the same as the first, with few noticeable additions.

But the game we should compare to Fallout is none other than the masterpiece Planescape: Torment. How they ever turned a confusing and advanced roleplaying concept into an excellent, slightly replayable game, I'll never know.

[Bleusilences]

It's more some sort of figthing/beat em upt then a diablo clone, it's not even close to standard rpg.