AK Question; Gun Nuts appreciated

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:25 am

I remember both reading somewhere and talking to afew Russian soldiers (And my dad) about this, but someone recently told me otherwise. Since I'm not really an assault rifles expert (I deal mostly with civilian arms; mainly handguns) so I'm not quite so sure myself. Anyways, I remember that AK 47's (Or possibly a differant model) could use both 7.62 and 5.56 in a pinch. The reason I remember that is from acouple of books as well as what my dear old dad told in that during the cold war, Russia learned allitle from WWII and figured out that a weapon with no ammo is a useless weapon, so the idea was that soldiers with an AK could just take the ammo off of dead American, Nato, Whatever soldiers.

Confirmation of any ammount?

EDIT:
Talked to someone, I was wrong, turns out that the AK 47 can Chamber the AR 7.62 but the AR can't chamber the AK rounds. Go figure.

CloudNineGT · Post by **CloudNineGT** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:40 am

My friend says:

"Well, you could load them, just like you could load a .45 ACP into a gun chambered for .45 Winchester... but nothing would happen if you pulled the trigger.

Both the 5.56 and 7.62 are longer than 7.62x39, the 7.62 wouldn't feed all the way in, bolt would be stuck open like a full centimeter at least. 5.56 is a little longer, but it's narrow enough it'd probably go all the way in and get stuck with the brass wedged into the barrel's throat. The firing pin either wouldn't be able to hit the primer properly on a 5.56, or you just wouldn't be able to fire with the chamber opened, if the 7.62 was in it. If it was an open bolt gun, the 7.62 might go off and it'd be incredibly bad. Then again, I've never tried doing either. It could cause a giant stuffed bunny to fly out the barrel.

But neither will fit in an AK magazine, 5.56 is about 2mm too long and too narrow, 7.62 is longer by about a centimeter and a half.. thankfully. If you really wanted to try, you'd have to stick the rounds into the chamber directly. "

trythebill · Post by **trythebill** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:42 am

no and no.

as far as i know, the 7.62x39mm round (AK47 round) will not chamber in a 7.62x51mm (NATO/AMERICAN) rifle, nor vice versa.

From left to right 5.45x39mm,5.56x45mm/.223 Remington,7.62x39mm,7.62x51mm/.308 Winchester,7.62x54R,and 8mm Mauser. As you can see by the photo the first 3 cartridges are for assault rifles and the other 3 are main battle rifle/machine gun cartridges.

p.s. there are AK47 type rifles that are actually chambered in 5.56mm and 7.62x51mm though.

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:44 am

Thanks Bill, you just confused the living fuck out of me.

trythebill · Post by **trythebill** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:20 am

Wolfman Walt wrote:Thanks Bill, you just confused the living fuck out of me.

salient points.

-the AK47 fires the 7.62x39mm round.

-the american M14 fires the 7.62x51mm round.

-the american M16 fires the 5.56x45mm round.

-the three rounds are in no way interchangeable.

- in the term "7.62x39mm" the 7.62 denotes the bore diameter while the "39mm" denotes the case length. this is standard terminology for all cartridges.

now, there are AK47 style rifles that use the same basic operating system as the AK47 but fire a different cartridge and are named differently. if you would like i can give examples and common names for them.

p.s. if you have any more questions ask them, for serious. i don't mind answering them, i do know guns.

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:59 am

Hmm are you absolutely sure that the AK won't fire any nato rounds? I SWEAR I remember reading somewhere that the AK could fire a round used by Nato but the AR couldn't fire AK rounds. Shit, this is just so much easier with handguns.

trythebill · Post by **trythebill** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:30 am

Wolfman Walt wrote:Hmm are you absolutely sure that the AK won't fire any nato rounds? I SWEAR I remember reading somewhere that the AK could fire a round used by Nato but the AR couldn't fire AK rounds. Shit, this is just so much easier with handguns.

i have never been more sure of anything. i own an M1A(civilian M14) and AR-15(civilian M16) and an AMD65(semi-auto civilian AK47) and i know that a real true-blue AK47 cannot fire ANY nato rounds.

there are finnish and polish AK47-type rifles that are MADE to fire 5.56x45mm rounds. there are also finnish and israeli AK47-type rifles that are MADE to fire 7.62x51mm rounds. these are made to fire their respective ammunition and ARE NOT interchangeable with other ammuntion under any circumstances.

what you read was cold war propaganda.

p.s. to complicate things there is an AR-15/M16 variant that fires the AK47 round but it is a shitty weapon and was never widely produced.

jetbaby · Post by **jetbaby** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:44 am

Can't we all just get along? Give up the guns, put down the weapons of hate and destruction. Give in to peace and love... and atom bombs? I mean really guys. We're in the NUCLEAR AGE, after all.
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Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:18 am

Shut up you filthy commie.

jetbaby · Post by **jetbaby** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:29 am

I want your baby, Walt.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:51 am

trythebill wrote:there are finnish and polish AK47-type rifles that are MADE to fire 5.56x45mm rounds.

A spec-op gun. An RK (= "rynnÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤kkÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶kivÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤ri", ie. assault rifle) model that has been produced in only very small numbers and the main rifle model still uses the oldish 7.62x39-round. I guess the whole 5.56-dealio was made with the upcoming(?) NATO-membership in mind, because that round works really crappy in Finnish conditions (forests, swamps, long ranges...). A crappy 5.45x39mm(Ru) version of the same rifle also exists, to make things even more confusing.

there are also finnish and israeli AK47-type rifles that are MADE to fire 7.62x51mm rounds. these are made to fire their respective ammunition and ARE NOT interchangeable with other ammuntion under any circumstances.

No Finnish assault rifle using the 7,62x51 round exists. A sniper rifle firing the 7,62x54(Ru, again) does.

EDIT: Shit, man, my mistake. No 7.62x51-version of the new army main battle rifle (to come) Sako RK95 exists, but YES there is a such version of one of the older assault rifles, Valmet RK62 (designed in 1962, distinctively)... Though there were never more than... 12? produced. *Very* small numbers in any case.

-- just as a side note.

Viktor · Post by **Viktor** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:52 pm

Izmash (the main manufacturer for the AK series) are offering the current refined and improved "Hundred" series AKs in 5.45x39 to be compatible with current Russian military/police ammo supplies; in 5.56mm NATO in the hope of getting a foreign export deal and in 7.62x39 for Russian and former Soviet block customers who aren't happy with the performance of the 5.45x39 round and don't (rightly) expect the 5.56mm NATO version to be much better...

I'm surprised more overseas interest hasn't be shown for the weapons that use the silent SP 9x39 ammo such as the AS "Val", VSK-94 and VSS "Vintorez". Being quieter than a hummingbird's fart and effective out past 300 metres with ball and AP rounds; you'd have though Western SF gear heads would be snapping these things up... It's not like the Russians wouldn't sell then by the container load to anyone with a valid End User permit!

MurPHy · Post by **MurPHy** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:02 pm

Viktor wrote:I'm surprised more overseas interest hasn't be shown for the weapons that use the silent SP 9x39 ammo such as the AS "Val", VSK-94 and VSS "Vintorez". Being quieter than a hummingbird's fart and effective out past 300 metres with ball and AP rounds; you'd have though Western SF gear heads would be snapping these things up... It's not like the Russians wouldn't sell then by the container load to anyone with a valid End User permit!

Well, in the U.S., Customs and the BATF probably won't let anyone without a super-secret-can't-get-it-unless-you-give-Bush-a-hummer gun import permit. Bah.