RPGVault round table #5 - Console and PC dev'ing

[Saint_Proverbius]

<strong>[ -> Editorial]</strong>

<A href="http://rpgvault.ign.com/">RPGVault</a> has posted <A href="http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/534/53 ... >Developer Roundtable #5</a> on the subject of developing CRPGs on both PCs and consoles. Since it's very likely that <b>Fallout 3</b> will be developed crossplatformy, I figured it was pretty relevant. Here's what <b>Raphael Colantonio</b> of <A href="http://www.arkane-studios.com/">Arkane Studios</a> says on the subject:
<br>
<br><blockquote>The first one is a matter of audience. I certainly don't want to trigger a 'definition of RPG' war, but I would think that the RPG culture on console is very different from the one on PC. In addition, the PC players tend to be more hardcore and demanding in terms of depth. So, the type of RPG must suit both audience segments, which is a fairly tough challenge and will require specific attention and adaptations according to the platforms; for example, PC gamers would kill you if you dare offering them save points instead of unlimited save games. Another example is that console players are probably used to a faster rhythm than their PC counterparts; there must be something new every two seconds. And PC players are more prepared to dealing with more complex controls than console players.
<br>
<br>The second point is that the technologies are never quite on pair between PC and consoles, nor do they base their strengths on the same points. Consoles tend to concentrate their efforts on rendering power, while PCs have lots of
<br>RAM and storage capacity (A LOT MORE RAM), so the ways to program for the two types of machines are not the same at all. And perhaps most of all, one must make sure that the cross-platform game doesn't requires too much RAM. Otherwise, the console simply won't be able to handle it. So, this also means that you have to adapt your gameplay fundamentals on the PC to deal with it.</blockquote>
<br>
<br>Now, everyone try to imagine how <A href="Http://www.interplay.com/fallout">Fallout</a>'s combat would work with an eight button console controller instead of a mouse and keyboard.
<br>
<br>Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.homelanfed.com">HomeLAN Fed</A>

[Mr. Teatime]

They might make different games in the same universe for each platform. Though that wouldn't be much better, Fallout should be be kept away from consoles.

[Ausir]

Morrowind was pretty much the same on PC and consoles, so I guess they'll do the same with FO3.

[Mr. Teatime]

True, though if they want to keep the classic FO viewpoint, a similar interface, and so on, I can't see it working on a console (thankfully).

[Saint_Proverbius]

That's the big problem. I doubt you even can make Fallout like Fallout and have it cross platform. Bethesda's already stated they planned to release Fallout 3 on multiple platforms, and there's a lot of things that will complicate.

[Mismatch]

Methinks that the multiplatform descision will be rather like pissing oneself.
At first it will feel good, but later (after haveing to walk aroud with wet, smelly pants all day) they(bethesda) will realize that it maybe wasn't such a good idea after all.

The things said by Kevin Lambert(Lead Designer, Dungeon Siege II) support this....
Is there anyone here who thinks that FO3 cross platforms is actually a good idea? I sure havent heard anyone being happy about it. Not here or in any other place.

[Role-Player]

Now, everyone try to imagine how Fallout's combat would work with an eight button console controller instead of a mouse and keyboard.

Well, directing the character in combat situations with the standard gamepad could work. As for more combat specific options, any button could be used to toggle from target to target. Another button could be used to switch weapon modes. And any other button could be used for confirmation.

Am i missing something?

[PsychoSniper]

Yes. It would be a shitload of work to mess with all the buttons.

Keep it PC, keep it fun.

[Saint_Proverbius]

Morrowind was pretty much the same on PC and consoles, so I guess they'll do the same with FO3.

Morrowind was essentially a first person shooter. It's not too hard to make those for a console.

Well, directing the character in combat situations with the standard gamepad could work. As for more combat specific options, any button could be used to toggle from target to target. Another button could be used to switch weapon modes. And any other button could be used for confirmation.

Am i missing something?

Yeah, things like movement, inventory management, etc.

For buttons to be a toggle, you'd need things for switching hands, switching modes of attack with a weapon, one that accessed a menu which handled the End Turn/End Combat/Inventory/SkillsDex/etc., one for the "Hand" menu, one for the target and fire, one to switch to aim or move modes, and one for the general game options menu.

That's seven of the eight buttons right there. If you're planning on allowing for buttons that switch targets, there's your eighth button used. Then again, something like a switch targets system with buttons would be better off using the left and right side buttons so you can scroll back and forth. Which one do you give up for that? The aim/move mode? Then you're left with not being able to toss grenades where you want or bursting in a direction to get a spray on several targets instead of just one if they're farther apart.

You could combine some actions, like nest a bunch of those menus, but then you end up with the KotOR inventory system problem where using doing something that would be utterly simply to interface on a PC becomes a large series of navigating the cumbersome heirarchy of menus and gadgets until you end up with what you want.

What if you wanted to make new options, like a follower menu for an orders system or something else that would be an interesting addition? You'd pretty much have to nest menus then.

[S4ur0n27]

We saw what a PC RPG designed for a console can be with DXIW.

[Role-Player]

*snip*

Well put.

However, taking something like the PS2 controller as a basis, couldn't you create those menu/command nests basically by using the shoulder pads, and letting each have a group with their own options?

You also have the Start and Select buttons, which could *possibly* be used for other things. And if you used the Dual Shock pad, you also would have the two extra analog thumbsticks.

[S4ur0n27]

It is still very much inferior to the keyboard. And frankly, FPS with a joystick fucking blows.

[Role-Player]

I know its inferior. And clunky. It doesn't sport the same ease-of-use that most other console RPGs have. My point was wheter or not it was possible.

[LlamaGod]

I sure havent heard anyone being happy about it. Not here or in any other place.

I imagine the Xbox retards on the Elder Scrolls forums would like it. The AOL using 13 year olds who've never heard of Fallout and start threads like MORROWIND VS. HALO

[Mismatch]

I imagine the Xbox retards on the Elder Scrolls forums would like it. The AOL using 13 year olds who've never heard of Fallout and start threads like MORROWIND VS. HALO

I suppose you just may be right.
And, I suppose bethesda should be thankful. Developibng games for retards must be much more easy than developing games for.... uh, what are we around here... really?

[Koki]

Saint_Proverbius - Wow. You modified your keyboard so it even has a button for target change? I do it with cursor. Tricky, huh?
Point is, you could just normally use analog gauge(? - sp) to move the cursor around. All hot keys I ever use in Fallout are C, I, and sometimes certain F's to initiate skills.
But I think it's a little offtopic, there was a discussion about controls somewhere... but then, I think it was NMA.

Anyway. This guy(The one quoted in first post) talks good, and I'm pretty amazed by that.

[Edit]Must be my IQ<139, but I fail to see your point.
|
|
V

[S4ur0n27]

I think you should read that thread again.

[PiP]

I imagine the Xbox retards on the Elder Scrolls forums would like it. The AOL using 13 year olds who've never heard of Fallout and start threads like MORROWIND VS. HALO

<shiver> this is probably why I don't go to places where you can read such stuff.

Talking of consoles, I know shit 'bout consoles - do they have anything that can work similarly to a 2-button mouse?

[King of Creation]

There's absolutely nothing out there in terms of console controllers that can compare to even a regular two button mouse. The accuracy one gets, in say first person shooters, is god-like compared to the crappy accuracy with a console controller. That's one of the main reasons why online games like Halo aren't crossplatform, meaning you can't play a guy whose playing on an Xbrick if you're playing on a PC. You'd kick his ass clear to tomorrow, even if you were an AOL loving 13 year old and the xbrick was a seasoned veteran. The responsiveness and accuracy of a mouse is above and beyond anything that a console controller is capable of.

[PiP]

but I mean can a console handle, in a mouse-like manner, moving the cursor on the screen in an RPG? at least in a turn-based one?