Just how close to an RPG could a custom FOT campaign be?

[xbow]

As I write this I realize that what I am saying is probably very old hat.

There are some great things about FOT and unfortunately some really lame things as well. But just suppose that you want to make a more open ended campaign or at least one that is not so obviously linnear as the stock campaign. Its a tradition in RPG's to move the players towards success or harm by depositing bits of information around the map that he/she can pick up and read (notes, Holodisks, and some could be stored in computer terminals etc...).

To reduce the number of bottlenecks such information could depositied in a number of locations via special trade encounters just add papers0X.ent
into the inventory of the quartermaster and give it a base cost. The information could be complete or be just part of a larger message. The quick and dirty way to read data from a book or clipboard would be to just give it a long description in the items.txt file


name_papers001= {Repo Sqd log page}
desc_papers001 = {DD/MM/YY After walking north for three days out of Enoch we encountered a band of scavengers striken with radiation sickness.......and so on}

I think that things like that could get rid of the infinitely boring canned briefings prior to a mission.

[Jimmyjay86]

Or you can make the information available via conversations with various NPCs. There are generally ways to drive conversations with a few options and by previous actions you have done. If you have a certain reputation some people will talk to you and others won't.

[quietfanatic]

It would depend on how much work you wree willing to put in. You can even use the clone system/JJ's speech trees/the random quantity trigger to create fairly engaging conversations. True, everyone might choose the same option (or play an RPG that is not a squad based engine), but it does create a feeling of freedom and realism.

[Retlaw83]

The next FoT project I'm planning is kind of bastard child between a Fallout 3 and a Tactics 2. I'm planning a lot of NPC dialogs to distribute important story information, and creative triggers to start quests. Basically, when you start talking to a big-wig and they have a quest for you, they refer to their assistant. Of course, you can decline the quest by simply not talking to whomever you're directed.

I've also noticed through the "uncovered" state you can set in game or through the campaign.txt you can setup found locations to initially display as "unknown" until they are visited. So, world map exploration can be done exactly like it was in the original Fallouts.

My plan is to tie together the FoT and Fallout 2 stories together. Hopefully it'll be cool.

[xbow]

Thanks guys.

Because now I have decided to put as many hours a day as possible in just the kind of bastard child retlaw88 is talking about except that what I am planning takes place in UTAH after Fallout2 and has a very different story line. I will of course adhere absolutely to the fallout bible. I figure WTF we have two or three years to wait for Bethesda to pump something out and it might blow chunks the size of cincinatti.

retlaw83 I am sure your ptroject will be cool.

I found some cool top down 3D DFM maps of the south west that would make great World maps. an example of a 2000 x 2000 UTAH map that i am working is at this link (sure makes world map making easy). The PNG is about 4.5 megs
http://www.geocities.com/tankermo2/graveyard.html

[Retlaw83]

Good luck to you on that.

My story takes place in western Pennsylvania and Eastern Ohio between Tactics and Fallout 2. I don't want to give any major story details away yet, except to say that southern California isn't the only place they stored FEV, and since the Enclave are the remnants of the U.S. government one cannot reasonable expect ALL of their important personnel to be stuck on an oil rig.

[xbow]

All the geo data you need to put that western Penn + Eastern Ohio map together is at:

http://edc.usgs.gov/geodata/

trial (no death date) software to read the DEM format is at :

http://www.globalmapper.com/index_data.html

There may be some voids in the mosaic but nothing that a trip to photoshop can't cure. example of a DEM render at:

http://www.ems.psu.edu/~nese/parivers.gif


I like the east coast concept eventhough I am from the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia. I think its time to see whats up in the East. Kali is getting stale in my book. Pittsburgh would have gotten a few nukes but there actually were some Vaults in PA and all along the mountains f5om NY south where the rich and powerful would have evacuated to in the 50's 60's. I think they used dead mines and stocked them full of chow, water, and gear. In any case vaults in the east would have outnumbered the vaults in the west by a huge margin. Do me a favor and make sure that your campaign gives the players the opportunity to blast down the descendants of the Washington Power Elites that escaped the holocaust by evacuating to Mount Weather and have now moved west. The scenario you propose is logical and i can't wait to play it. I agree the Enclave would have signifigant facilities in the Appalachian Mountains.

http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/inst ... ather.html

[Retlaw83]

lol. Thanks for the help. You are my hero.

I'm planning on using three undocumented vaults - 78, 79 and 81 - so I can play fast and loose with their purposes.

The basic concept is that Pittsburgh is the only post-war producer of steel east of the Rockies, supplying everyone from New England to Brotherhood territory. The Brotherhood's Midwest Protectorate, of course, is highly interested in annexing them through peaceful means.

One of the main threats to peaceful civilization in the area is the Republic of Cleveland, a socialist country that gains positive public opinion by whipping their people into nationalistic, patriotic frenzies. They also make no secret about the fact that they have several pre-war nuclear weapons and have no qualms about using them if they feel the need.

The Enclave's role as the self-proclaimed post-war government, the making of talking death claws, the U.S. government's role in the vault "social experiments" and the Vault 0 debacle will also be explained... at least to the extent my imagination will allow.

While I might not include the descendants of the Washington elites - because none of this is really the descendants' fault - Enclave and Vault-Tec personnel will probably get an opportunity to feel the player's fury.

Since this will be largely linear and more of an exercise in story telling than the original Fallouts were, I might work a love story somewhere in there too if it suits my needs. Haven't decided yet.

[Retlaw83]

If you wanna see the prelude to my new mod idea, its in this thread in the Fan Fic forum:

http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/viewt ... 964#180964

[xbow]

The Enclave and Vault-Tec personnel will probably get an opportunity to feel the player's fury.

I like the way you worded that, yes that would be sufficient

Thats a cool intro I think Ill write one myself... I can't wait to see the map for steel city



I am still thinking of how to accomplish much of this but here is a bit of the back story:

2253 Utah is now the focus of the Enclave, The Brotherhood of Steel, and of course the Theocracy of Salt Lake. Utah is isolated , to the North is the nuclear crater pockmarked radio active wasteland of Wyoming. To the East Colorado lies in radioactive ruin. To the West, South and South East the deserts of Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico surround Utah like an ocean of rock and sand.

The Theocracy of Salt Lake and its environs is ruled by a religious order that has become over time more aggressive and stern in its dominion over the region. To the dismay of the theocracy outside the great salt basin Raiders and scavs prey on caravans and travelers and interrupt commerce. In order to better control the region the Theocrats are willing to barter anything to gain vertibird technology from the one trading partner that has always maintained contact with them and who have always had the means of crossing the wastelands quickly by air, the Enclave.

Before the war the United States Planetary Defense Command was created to defend the planet against the threat of asteroid or cometary impact. Somewhere in the Utah desert is hidden the planet’s only defense against a global killer from space, two mighty Colossus missiles.

The Enclave wants the missiles for the tons of Plutonium in their engines and warheads, with that much fissionable material they can build a nuclear arsenal second to none. The Enclave is actively searching
For the missiles in direct violation of their treaty with the theocracy.

The Theocracy wants the missiles so that they will be able to leverage both vertibird and fission bomb technology from the Enclave and be able to defend their realm against any and all threats.

Only the Brotherhood of Steel knows that a global killer is on a collision course with Earth and is sending repo squads into Utah to find the missiles and put them into operational condition for launch....

the prize:

http://www.geocities.com/tankermo2/colossus.jpg


PS: My Son wants to know if Paladin LeBron is a descendant of LeBron James?

[Retlaw83]

lol. Paladin Lebron is not a descendant of Lebron James. But I think the cool thing about worlds like Fallout is that a character's ethnicity doesn't matter, and you can imagine someone looking like however you want.

Your idea seems pretty feasible, except for the comet missiles. The world of Fallout doesn't have ICBMS - the bombs that were dropped were delivered by airplanes. Of course, I'm willing to bet a lot of pre-war nukes are lying around, just waiting to be collected. Maybe turn the planetary defense complex to an airbase, location unkown, that didn't get its bombs airborne before the nuclear exchange ended everything.

[xbow]

Paladin LeBraun vs Lebraun James..... My son is constantly on the lookout for Easter Eggs (obsessed) it was my pleasure to tell him that in this case he was WRONG!!! Muhahahhaa!


In any case The big fission powered amonia burners will just be the only two nuclear powered exo atmospheric rockets ever made. One thing that nuke in FOT sure looked like it would be at home sitting on top of a missile, perhaps it was the business end of a rocket powered battelfield missile and not an ICBM's warhead.

fallout Timeline October 2077

Great War: "Bombs are launched; who struck first is unknown... and it is not even known if the bombs came from China or America. Air raid sirens sound, but very few people go into vaults, thinking it is a false alarm. The Vaults are sealed."
[hr]
"The West Tek research facility is hit by warheads, breaking open the FEV tanks on levels four and five and releasing it into the atmosphere. Once exposed to radiation, it begins to mutate and infect humans and critters in the wasteland and dooming the player character in F1 and F2 to endure hordes of random encounters."

The delivery method isnt mentioned in the time line but I do not doubt the voracity of your data retlaw83. Actually delivery by intercontentinal bomber is more in line with the 1950's theme. However since niether side really knew who hit first that would imply a fast first strike deliver system with an equally fast response like an ICBM strike and counter strike with the the bulk of the attack being carried out by bombers on a second wave that arrived over their targets hours later. In 1958 that was in fact the strategic plan for both the USSR and the USA.

So without bending the mythos too much the colossus planetary defense missiles must be a small super secret program to which even the president was not privy (like the secret Alien artifacts that are supposed to be stored in the Blue Room at wright patterson air field ya right )

Hey man the Blue Room at Wright Patteson AFB is only 250 miles from Steel City!!!!

IN any case it's easier to see this in the fallout world than ICBM strike..


******


These monsters carried a single 25 foot long, 40 thousand pound MK14 thermonuclear warhead( All analog! No electronics!!!!!!!!! )

[Guest]

This is a good one too, no?



They had 'em in the 50's.

[PaladinHeart]

This went a little off topic but I've been wanting to reply on-topic so here goes:

Actually you could make an RPG as good as any Final Fantasy RPG (without the various choices and decision making which usually has no bearing in FF games anyway). Just give the characters a little personality and it will make your campaign very enjoyable, unlike the default one.

The problem I find with most user-made campaigns is the quests go something like this:

"Hey go get me a pack of gum!"

"Thanks, here's 20 bucks"

Popup message displays: $20 has been added to your inventory.

OK some of them are a little better but the characters sending you on these quests usually don't have much, if any, personality. I've seen this happen in more than just user-made stuff though. They're are a lot of games that do this. It can easily bore the player with repetitive fed-ex quests.

Another problem is, surprisingly, music and sound. Anyone ever played the demo? Surprisingly it feels a lot more like Fallout than the full game.. because it has the original sounds! Maybe im just picky but I think those original sounds are better. Especially the gibbed sound (squish! instead of "argh!").

As for music. I think it'd be better with a certain soundtrack playing for the duration of the level, maybe changing at certain times. Im not really fond of the whole ambient (but otherwise totally quiet) setting. I think music makes a big difference in how much we enjoy something.

Dialog trees are nice, but I don't think every RPG needs them. The character/s can make you feel just as involved without em. If you take the time to put in a tagname for the PC that is. Which is easy (just tagname one of the premade chars and have the player edit that char (to make their own)). I can't take credit for that discovery, but I can't remember who thought of it? Anyway you can also have multiple different tagnames on premades for different race and sex.

Using the tagname you can make the PC speak, remove them from the player's control, etc.. Lots of interesting stuff that you normally couldn't do. Without a tagname you can't do anything with a character with triggers (other than make them die?).

[Guest]

I totally agree with you on the music thing. I'm making a campaign set in SE Texas around San Antonio, Dallas, & Houston timed between FoT & Fo2. I'll be using music from Fo1/2 without music zones. No stupid fed-ex quests(okay maybe a couple with a point to them).Most of the short quests i'll do will like be like the Fo1 quest to get the .223 pistol(blade runner gun!!! ).

this one's cool too:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:Q ... C_029S.JPG

What's the gibbed sound again?

[PaladinHeart]

In the original FO games when someone gets gibbed (rocket launcher) it makes this "squish" sound. In FOT, when someone gets gibbed, they just scream. How can someone scream when blown to bits?

[Guest]

yeah should just have 'em get blown all over the walls and ground (like when the rats explode in Fo1/2)

[xbow]

[TBC]-PaladinHeart Wrote: "Just give the characters a little personality and it will make your campaign very enjoyable, unlike the default one."

I couldn’t agree more..

I remember what a kick I got out of an NPC like Cassidy with his combat taunts and his occasional sniping at Myron, “You step out of line Myron and I’ll cut you.� or my favorite Cassidy combat taunt of all “I’ll turn you into an undertakers nightmare.� those little things made the game unique. Imagine that an NPC that has a dislike for another NPC. By comparison FOT NPC’s are dumb as dirt mute bastards with zero personality.

I think that in FOT special encounters could be used as a way to break up the linearity of the game. Its difficult to fathom just how unbelievably LAME , and MEANINGLESS many of the special encounters in FOT truly are. What value do moronic encounters like ‘copper tops’ and the ‘Eveready bunny’ Brahmin armor, Brahmin poker, Brahmin tipping have? NONE!

I think that all ‘special encounters’ should be related to the story line in some way and either assist or inhibit the player in his/her quest to save the world. You could have many small towns or villages that are unmarked on the world map until you trip across them and perhaps hidden somewhere in that town is something that may have some value perhaps a repair part for something that you have to fix in order to finish the campaign. That would force you to explore the world and that’s always fun.

[TBC]-PaladinHeart Wrote: "They're are a lot of games that do this. It can easily bore the player with repetitive fed-ex quests. "

Sadly it sounds like you are talking about Bethesda's Morrowind.

[PaladinHeart]

Yes, Morrowind is bad for that (and I am currently playing it! hah!). But there are others. Its not really just the Fed Ex quests either. Sometimes its the repetitive nature of it all. Even in games like FOT and Jagged Alliance you can often end up doing the same thing again and again. The problem with FOT was you couldn't build up with random encounters so there wasn't much to break the monotony of it all besides going to base, haggling, and reorganizing your massive quantities of bullets and other accumulated garbage.

Jagged Alliance 2 is depressing sometimes because you can't really put many things together (oh how I missed the molotov!) and the battles seem almost endless. The fighting is fun but you often have to reload (a lot) or deal with the consequences of losing people (or having them wait around to get healed for days).

The main mistake Morrowind makes is having you travel halfway across the continent to complete quests. It'd have been more fun to do stuff locally. Maybe OCCASIONALLY far off, like a big quest, but at least 30% of the quests involve long treks, sometimes involving tagalong good-for-nothing-die-in-one-hit-weaklings.

You really have to play a lot of games and study what makes them good/bad if you want to make something yourself. I play all the time so I always make sure I pay attention to the big problems, and more importantly the little things that can make a game addictive.

[xbow]

The sad thing is that it takes as much effort to make a stinker as it does to make a killer.

One of the key features in any RPG is Character Idntification or to what degree do you feel like you are actually in there taking on the bad guys with wit and firepower when needed.

Character poverty is another method of hooking a player into a game. The less you have to work with the more likley you are to play well and watch your resources. You might have a sub machine gun and two hundred rounds of ammo but if ammo is generally scarce you will opt to hack and slash with a pack of low level street thugs or sand bums rather than waste precious ammo on their nasty hides. I generally start to get bored when I have every wepaon available power armor and enough ammo to take on the world.

Open endedness with as few bottle necks as possible creates a feeling of being in control of your own destiny and thats certainly an escape from a typical reality where the player is a wage slave that pays 40 percent of his income to the various levels of government or else. multiple solutions to a problem is also a great thing to make a game fun.

Side quests that are dictated by some higher power are fine but there should also be opportunity for the player to adlib a bit and if he/she exceutes a good plan get away with it or get caught and suffer for it.

Karma is another area that many games miss the mark on because your history is very public. a game should have two things that determine how npc's react to a player character Karma the sum total of what you have done and your public reputation the deeds good and bad others have witnessed. Low Karma due to some foul deeds should cause an occasional bad encounter but only your public reputation should be able to get the towns people in an lynching mood.

A player should be able to punch it out with a smart mouth drunk without the entire town turning into a mob bent on his destruction. only those towns people that are direct witnesses to an action should be involved in its evolution. In fallout2 there were many situations where you could sneak in and wax somone and as long as you setteled things in that first round of combat none would be the wiser if they didnt wintness it.