More Controversy: Views on Religion

[Kaine]

Well, since I love controversial subjects, this is probably one of the best I can think of.

I want to know what you all think of religion.

Please, no flame wars/name calling/etc.
I want this to go, because I really want to know what everyone thinks.

My personal view is that religion mainly keeps the moral of certain people up.

It does brainwash some weakminded people (not necessarily the main ones, but some cults)

It is fought over way to much, and is taken for much more than it should be.

I'm athiest, but i've read part of the bible, and as far as I can tell, it is mainly just a guide on a way to live, not an utter ruling.

I believe that the churches have actually corrupted religions (in general, i'm not talking about any in particular here)

And I believe that religious organizations should not be given special statuses, but they should be treated more like organizations or clubs.

Thanks in advance for all of those who do not spam or flame with names.

[Tigersclaw]

Everyone wants a reason to live, but noone was ever delivered with a manual. "Thanks for becoming a human being. We here a godco are happy that you choose planet earth to live on."

In the early years we tried to explain why the sun rises and the water flows. Astronomy and physics weren't in our knowledge, so we liked the thought that everyting in nature had a mind. Yep, a brain!

Then who makes the water flow? Must be some sexy watergodess ... Yes that must be it! Heureka (Ehhhrmm.. Sorry too early in time for that word)

Science, politics and religion was the very same thing. Later someone suggested that the water may not need to have someone to make it flow. Those darn heretics.

During the years that passed the religion was the laws, the faith and the knowledge. Later scientists began to question the old bibles and say that maybe the sun didn't circle around a flat earth.

Many religions wrote their bibles to teach the people to obey their leaders and what they should and not should do.

Todays religion has lost much of it's power in the western part of the world. Religions of today talk more about faith, love and the higher being(-s) than of laws, order and obedience.

People want a simple and understandible world with easy to understand reasons for everything. Hence the need of religion.

I don't believe in the christian, jewish, hindu, moslem ... etc god. Still I can't prove that there are no god at all. So my point is that it's irrelevant, unless there are any viable proof of it.

So, my point is that believe in whatever you like. But don't forget religions were most likely created by the human imagination, and not one or many gods.

Just my 0.02 dollahs!

[Ghetto Goose]

i just dont like organized religion.
god? sure.
reincarnation? fine.
my savior being made of crackers and wine, and me having to eat it? no thanks.

[Kashluk]

Thank you, Kaine, for making it clear to everyone what kinds of answers you want.

I'm a Christian.

I believe in God, I think he began to roll the planets in order to create the Big Bang and the rest of the universe.

I believe in today's science - but in no way has it been able to deny God's existence. Nor have religionous fanatics been able to deny today's science's existence.

I like religion. Manytimes it gives people a good picture of what the world should be and how we should act like.

All these cults, fanatic terrorists, hippocrits and others - they just make me sick. They don't know a shit about religion. Few nice words, juiced with
*holy* and *heavenly* won't cover your cause.

But I like religion. In general, that is.

[HappySuitcase Man]

Personally, I believe in higher being. However, I detest most organized religion, especially inside of Christianity. People should be making their own decisions based on their information, not selecting a branch and adhering to their creed. Of course, that's ignoring the possibility that they just grouped together because they believe the same thing or in the name of unity. Actually, now that I think about it, just because one visits a place of worship that is under the banner of a certain sect doesn't automatically mean that they can't have beliefs that differs from that certain sect.

So, uh... ignore what I wrote above.

[desertf]

God, religion LOL... Give me a break god isn't real and religions were created long ago to give people something to look forward to because they were going through hard times. All religions suck and I believe in no afterlife or god. When we die, we are dead end of story.

Sorry if that sounded harsh, but its hard for me to believe in something that has never been seen (AKA God). I do not hate ppl that believe in god or have a religion its just not for me. A lot of my freinds goto chuch but not I.

Thanks for listening to my crazy dribble =) I love you all...

Peace,

[Kaine]

Ah, thats what I like to see...
Anyway, since religion is based on faith, if God was proved to exist or not, wouldn't that destroy the basic idea of religion?

If we proved he didn't exist, then religion would come to a close
If we proved he did, then there would be no use for faith because we would know he existed.

Then what?

[Ghetto Goose]

then people would find something else to war over... :roll:

[Will]

Most wars are not fought over religion. Most wars are fought over land and resources, or out of ethnic hate.

[Rat Keeng]

I do not like religion.

I do think religion is humorous at times. I heard about a muslim woman, who died because she wore a dress that completely covered her. The lack of sun on her skin, decreased her vitamin-levels so drastically, she collapsed and died. Dying because a book says you have to cover yourself completely, how's that for religion?

What's more humorous is the Pope. I always watch him when he's un TV, and all these people crying because the Pope touched their hand. Wow, being touched by a cripple, what kind of miracles will God bestow upon me now?

Stupid religion :x

[Kashluk]

God, religion LOL... Give me a break god isn't real and religions were created long ago to give people something to look forward to because they were going through hard times. All religions suck and I believe in no afterlife or god. When we die, we are dead end of story.

Why are you saying that god doesn't exist and religions are ridicilous? We've been over this in old topics already, but I'll say this again: if 95% of the world population believe in a higher being, it's pretty fucking obvious that either you're wrong or then homo sapiens isn't really a smart man.

I do not hate ppl that believe in god or have a religion its just not for me. A lot of my freinds goto chuch but not I.

Talking about Controversary...

[Sirgalahadwizard]

I'd have to consider myself a "chrisitan", but I haven't read any parts of the bible I could remember (I did read some psalms because they're prophecy relating to this and the last century... read psalms 45 and think about what happened to end wwII and the phrase "two arrows").

-----

I'd have to say that my religion is sort-of like a mutated christianity... promoting egalitarianism/equality (ie, no female submission), all that is good - both in logical and emotional sense, and the fact that religion should be practiced alone - not in congregation. God is good, will only destroy evil, and has the ability to fully concentrate on any individual (because it's infinite - god is also without gender - so god is refered to as an "it" rather than a "he" or "she").

Evil will try to destroy or ruin anything it can - regardless of the magnitude of importance and promotes general entropy (the tendancy for the universe to become more chaotic - in this sense pollution is considered evil and so is the reproduction of the human race).

God may not be seen or had proof of because it's infinite, and y'know, maybe it doesnt want to have any proof tied to it here in the physical realm... as that might be a limitation.

Nobody can be completely "good", and any attempt to usually leaves you more "evil" than if you hadn't tried (take the bishop scandal for example - I think they should be able to lead normal lives, not being able to have a wife/children/romantic partners puts an unberable strain on their libedo). Also - no human is completly evil either, there's at least a little glint of good in their life, even if you have to pull back time to when they were a kid.

I do believe in life after death, but also that you'll be judged on your actions, redemption for your actions (the courage to forgive yourself comes from christ) and your willingness to leave this life behind. It's the courage to stand up and be embarassed and answer to every single bad thing youve done in your life and say why you did it and why it was wrong.

As for reincarnation, I belive that being reincarnated would be a punishment - but less severe than being cast into gehenna (the place where souls are destroyed forever), and perhaps being one final test of purgatory.

As for when you die - you become unconscious until the end of time or whenever judgement should take place (which happens instantly, because time has no meaning in the realm of undreaming sleep).

As for the creation, the bible's version may be a metaphor for the order in which things happened (not so much that it took 6 days or that the earth is 6000 years old). As I see it, there was the big bang and about 15 billion years later the earth was created (not overnight either), about a billion years later (or sooner) water appeared (which in effect made continents and land too) about 2 billion years after that life appeared and the rest is history...
It's kinda hard to explain the creation of the universe and evolution and all the scientific principals involved to a buncha hillbillies who herd goats for a living in an era where science doesnt seem to exist dontcha think? (Well, at least without giving it all away)

[Kaine]

[quote="Kashluk]Why are you saying that god doesn't exist and religions are ridicilous? We've been over this in old topics already, but I'll say this again: if 95% of the world population believe in a higher being, it's pretty fucking obvious that either you're wrong or then homo sapiens isn't really a smart man.[/quote]

I'm gonna go with the "not a smart man" thing here, seeing as, that while we are really intellegent, we've also killed people based on their religion (look at the crusades), some rape little children, some rape adults, lots of people kill each other for no apparent reason, and we've been prejudiced at people based on their skin...anyway.

One other thing, if Jesus was real, he wouldn't be a caucasion male. By all thoughts he should be someone of more arabian descent. And if he was real, Mary would have got pregnant...

Hey, jesus could be a bastard child...

My 2/100 of a dollar.

[Walks with the Snails]

I think religion is overall positive. Not perfect, as nothing involving humans, flawed as they are, will be, but certainly more good than bad. Just based on personal experience, if I had to put my live or possessions in the hands of a stranger, I'd trust a devout, church-going Christian to not take advantage of me before an atheist. If I was starving and needed food and a place to stay, the first place I'd go for help would be a church. People for some reason tend to attack inanimate objects and institutions when the truth is, it's almost always the fault of the people using them when things go wrong. A Congressman takes bribes from companies, hey, it's the government's fault. A wacko shoots somebody, guns are to blame. A few pathetic men beat their wives, the instutituion of marriage is to blame and should be scrapped. The truth is, in all cases, the criminal is to blame and should be held responsible for his/her actions. That goes for priests, pastors, false prophets, misguided followers, and the like, too.

Just because something can be misused doesn't mean there's something inherently wrong with it. I can misuse a car to run somebody over, does that mean we outlaw cars or running people over with cars? I can misuse an internet account to defraud people, does that mean we abolish the Internet? Before you think that's a ridiculous argument, someone out there probably believes it. In both of those cases, a selfish person can misuse something that overall is often used for positive things as a means to accomplish something not so positive. The problem lies in the perpetrator's motives, though. The tools they used were simply a means to an end, like the church often has been for people who hid behind it when it suited their goals.

I think most people who have an unfavorable impression of religion mostly base it on hearsay upon hearsay upon hearsay. Kind of funny since they'll often then turn around and demand to see direct, irrefutable proof of God, when they're willing to set the bar much lower for a lot of their other beliefs when it's convenient. If all you believe is what you've seen with your own eyes, I really doubt you believe much at all. Even people who claim they believe in science are pretty misguided. Science isn't meant to be believed in, it's just a method to attempt to discern the truth based on what can be observed. Nothing more, nothing less. If you just mindlessly devour anything someone with a lab coat tells you, you're not a scientist, you're a science groupie. Not that you're alone, as that's a pretty basic human trait, but it's rather hypocritical to turn around and deride people who do the same with religion (not that everyone does the same when it comes to that, either). Kudos to those of you who have actually have read snippets of the Bible, not everybody's even gone that far. It hardly makes you an expert on religion, though, even if you managed to drop any prejudices you might have had beforehand. Neither does reading a few news stories on church scandals make you an expert on the subject any more than reading about school shootings makes you an expert on the education system.

[HappySuitcase Man]

then people would find something else to war over... :roll:

Are you done repeating slogans you hear from your Chomsky-Quoting friend that's in your little group?

Wars haven't been fought over religion for long freakin' time. It's all about da' money and/or da' power. Look at World War I, World War II, and in America's history, the Invasion of Vietnam.

EDIT -

Are you done repeating slogans you hear from your Chomsky-Quoting friend that's in your little group?

Invasion of Vietnam.

Ha ha! Irony at it's finest!

[desertf]

God isnt real and religions sucks, the end.

[Rat Keeng]

God is real, and religion is the meaning of life. The end.

[Slave_Master]

i worship my feet

[Walks with the Snails]

My view on religion is that it was invented by man for hope, or because they feared death and wanted something to comfort them. Most organized religion, IMHO, is evil, as they use their great power (nothing greater then over a man's soul) to further their own political gain. Pat Robertson, anybody? Since power corrupts, something with great power, say the Papacy, would be corrupt, and only want more power. Look at the Catholic church's influence on politics in the Middle Ages. They threatened kings with excommunication if they did something that was not in the best interest of the Church.

Be honest, how many churches have you been to? Religion doesn't begin and end with Pat Robertson and the Pope, or anybody else the media has packaged for your easy consumption. Not that you'd probably even think the same thing about them if you talked to them face to face. Most pastors, priests, and other church workers I've seen work 24/7 for peanuts, especially when you consider their education level, because they sincerely care about people and want to help them. They're always on call, ready to lend a compassionate ear or help the downtrodden back on their feet because they're good people and because of their beliefs. That kind of stuff just isn't terribly newsworthy, though, so you only hear about the 0.5% that are indeed scum. I could tear down any individual or organization by pointing solely at it's misdeeds. I doubt you're proud of everything you've done in your life; I know I'm not. News flash: nobody's perfect. And did it ever occur to you that maybe evil people can and have hijacked religious institutions for their own gain rather than the other way around? Last time I looked, the Catholic Church doesn't actually think a lot of the crap that happened in the Middle Ages was really a good thing.

[Killzig]

I think the virgin mary got quite the holy cum bath.