Happy Hiroshima day!

[SNorth]

Hehe. Meet atrocities with even worse atrocities. That's always been your way. One attack on your home soil and you get all loco. A-Bombs away, fuck up afghanistan, invade iraq without reason.

What would you do if someone killed thousands of Norwegians? Ooops, I know, surrender real damn quick. Think about what you are saying. I'm not saying we made the right choice but have a little compassion. How many Norwegians have died to set America free? I bet your parents or grandparents where happy when the occupation was over. I'm sure no Norwegian sat around saying, "God, I just love having Nazis around."
One more thing, isn't escalation the normal course of events when one human commits an atrocity against another? If the U.S. is so bad, why did we rebuild Germany and Japan? Why wouldn't we just move in and occupy all the countries that we freed(like the Soviet Union)?

The fact is. By dropping the A-bombs the american government showed just how little they cared about humanity. Using humans like test subjects like that... This was just one of many atrocities that american leaders should have been punished for.

When a country does something major like dropping an A-bomb they are trying to end a war. We could end the war and we did. If we had invaded mainland Japan there might be no Japanese left alive today, given the history of fighting to the death that precedes them. Truman made the best decision he could under the circumstances.

Remove Guantanamo bay and alteast try to show that you care about human rights and your own precious "justice".

Let's see, they take a prisoners and cut their heads off, even people who are just trying to help rebuild Iraq. Show me one dead prisoner in Gitmo. Show me ditches filled with dead bodies, or how about some showers that spew gas or ovens to burn bodies. I'll take the treatment these people have received any day over having my head chopped off on TV so my family can see.

If you'd argue good and bad points, instead of painting all of America as evil (as if we as a people confer on every decision and each time pick the one that hurts the world), I'd probably have taken you seriously. Open your eyes man!

[MadBill]

This was just one of many atrocities that american leaders should have been punished for.

But one must relize that the US people are responsible for their leaders. Or at least we are supposed to be. So we must all be punished.

can't we just blow up all the nukes in the world and make a new Fallout-ish world, it'd be alot cooler icon_drunk

Amen.

[SNorth]

This was just one of many atrocities that american leaders should have been punished for.

But one must relize that the US people are responsible for their leaders. Or at least we are supposed to be. So we must all be punished.

can't we just blow up all the nukes in the world and make a new Fallout-ish world, it'd be alot cooler icon_drunk

Amen.

If this is the case man, I'm pretty sure every country in the world will be standing in the punishment line.

What atrocity are you both referring to, by the way?

[MadBill]

Specifically, dropping atomic bombs on Japan.

Me, I tend to generalize to just about anything... And yes, all humans should be punished.

[Corvwyn]

I guess this teaches me not to start discussions like this at duck and cover. It's not really any use trying to discuss things like this anyway, we'll never agree. And yes, this did go off-topic.

And to SNorth. I don't know what you're trying to say with that surrender real damn quick thing of yours. We fought as hard as we could against the german war machine. Thanks for that comment...

I'll stop this and keep on-topic. Sorry 'bout that.

[Wolfman Walt]

In shorter words "My argument got raped and theres nothing further I can say so I give up."

[SNorth]

Corvwyn, all I'm trying to say is that I don't think Americans deserve the hatred you are espousing. I will not deny that the Norwegians did the best they could, but I'm tired of Europeans acting like the sacrifice made by America on your behalf when you needed help is forgotten. I have never felt any animosity toward Norway, just your attitude. I actually like every Norwegian I've met and hopefully that won't change. The surrender damn quick remark I will retract and apologize for---As you said, your people did the best they could. I hope that eventually all people will grope toward doing the best they can and we will live in a better place together.

[Thor Kaufman]

About guantanamo bay

From what I heard they are taking prisoners there illegally from a civil point, whereas legally from a military point.
That is because the US say those prisoners are combatants/somewhat military personnel, I think? But even if that were correct, they should be getting a lawyer which they don't get.
Instead they are held hostage for several months even if they are probably innocent. What's that to do with your constitution, I thought Americans were into the all people are equal thing, ah well however.

Besides they are treated with torture and brainwashing techniques like sleep deprivation, they get these freaky orange suits, where they can't have any kinematic experiences, don't see shit, probably can't even smell something. And that's not as is often said for their own protection, that's just plain old torture and brainwashing techniques.
And this over several months...

If this is humane, I better don't want to think what you think is humane, I reckon.

[Mismatch]

From what I heard they are taking prisoners there illegally from a civil point, whereas legally from a military point.

naah.
It isnt legal in any way, thats why they invented the illegal combatants term. Which they call anyone they want to inprison.
Then they put them in "military prisons" in countries not following the haag thingy, and violá, you can abuse them all you want.
What I find funneh is how usually when human rights are violated the leaders go to court, but when american soldiers do it, the grunts gets sent to court, not rumsfelt or bush.

they get these freaky orange suits

They deserve blue jumpsuits

[Corvwyn]

In shorter words "My argument got raped and theres nothing further I can say so I give up."

Trying to get me mad, eh? Well, you're wrong. This discussion has already been raped to death anyway.

They deserve blue jumpsuits

Indeed. Blue jumpsuits for everyone!

[Blargh]

Still posturing, chaps ? Twats, the lot of you.

[SNorth]

Still posturing, chaps ? Twats, the lot of you.

Perhaps you are right. I need to lighten up a bit. I was once as idealistic as these guys. I should be working on the mod anyway. I can feel DarkUnderLord and his mod team lurking just beyond the horizon, eager to overtake us (MR)and in a jealous rage attempt to crush our morale.

[RasterOps]

I guess this teaches me not to start discussions like this at duck and cover. It's not really any use trying to discuss things like this anyway, we'll never agree. And yes, this did go off-topic.

<snip>
I'll stop this and keep on-topic. Sorry 'bout that.

We at DaC are familiar with slights such as yours. Nothing new there. So, are you implying that if you post your diatribe anywhere else you'll get a more compassionate response?

Corvwyn, you seem reasonable and level headed. So, I don't understand where all your hate is coming from. Your hate is no different than that of terrorists (home bred (US) or imported). All that kind of hate does is breed more hate. You tell me how that is good for the world. So, if you are as responsible as I believe, stop breeding hate. Otherwise, you are as guilty as those you hate.

Are you (Norway) claiming to be innocent of Human rights violations, atrocities? You want Bush punished for going to war with Iraq? Where are all the bleeding hearts for the Iraqi civilians killed and tortured by Sadam? You want Truman punished for dropping the A-bombs? Go here:
Human rights under the Norwegian Monarchs and dictators Clean up your house.

[Retlaw83]

From what I heard they are taking prisoners there illegally from a civil point, whereas legally from a military point.
That is because the US say those prisoners are combatants/somewhat military personnel, I think? But even if that were correct, they should be getting a lawyer which they don't get.
Instead they are held hostage for several months even if they are probably innocent. What's that to do with your constitution, I thought Americans were into the all people are equal thing, ah well however.

It's perfectly legal from a military standpoint. Combatants taken prisoner have NEVER gotten lawyers from their captors, because enemy combatants are outside of the law. This is because war is what modern countries resort to when something outside the bounds of international law occur.

[Wolfman Walt]

Trying to get me mad, eh?

Nah, just stating the truth. It's stupid to get mad over things on an Internet BBS.

[Koki]

Looks like I missed another quality DAC discussion. Oh well.

Anyway, I don't see what's the big deal. USA got new fancy weapon, and Japan was there to test it on. People died, o noes! This just in - people die on war. Civilians? Don't give me this shit - you think what army is? If it was made only by volounteers then there would not be one, army was(Especially after few years of war) civilians with guns.
Even more so, all this civilian/soldier separation is crap. So you can kill soldier but you can't kill guy who makes ammo for him? Really, trying to put any kind of morality, "fair fight" and rules into a war is ridicolous.

[Wolfman Walt]

I suppose "quality" is a relative term. It appears most of "quality" discussions occur in the news section though, well recently speaking.

Not that anyone cares, but I think it's bullshit that suddenly 50 years later I'm supposed to be crying because we ended a war they started with a strong arm. Now I like Japan, its one of my favorite countries, but the idea that suddenly something which actually ended up lessening bloodshed and saved American lives was some sort of horrible thing. While I do respect those who died and realize their loss should be mourn by people who felt the loss, I neglect seeing why the US was wrong and why I should feel anyworse about it then anyone else the US has killed in a war.

It wasn't an attrocity, there was nothing monsterous or illegal about it. If it was such a monsterousity or was an illegal action, why do most major industrialized nations have nukes? It was a war, shit happens. I'm sure if Norway or whatever the fuck other country was in the same position of power their actions would have been similar so please no more high horses allowed.

[Redeye]

I suppose "quality" is a relative term. It appears most of "quality" discussions occur in the news section though, well recently speaking.

Not that anyone cares, but I think it's bullshit that suddenly 50 years later I'm supposed to be crying because we ended a war they started with a strong arm. Now I like Japan, its one of my favorite countries, but the idea that suddenly something which actually ended up lessening bloodshed and saved American lives was some sort of horrible thing. While I do respect those who died and realize their loss should be mourn by people who felt the loss, I neglect seeing why the US was wrong and why I should feel anyworse about it then anyone else the US has killed in a war.

It wasn't an attrocity, there was nothing monsterous or illegal about it. If it was such a monsterousity or was an illegal action, why do most major industrialized nations have nukes? It was a war, shit happens. I'm sure if Norway or whatever the fuck other country was in the same position of power their actions would have been similar so please no more high horses allowed.

No more high horses allowed. No mutants allowed. No coloreds allowed.
No wimminz allowed. No Irish Need Apply. No smoking. No Parking.
No Thinking In A School Zone! Nuclear Free Zone! No Dumping.

I am going to depart this thread for fun by asking a really stupid and
slightly inane question. What if?
The Japanese islands were divided like Korea and Germany?
If there are any Japanese here, I would like to ask... would you sacrifice
two cities to prevent that from happening?
This is based on a deliberately simplistic premise- that the US "zapped"
Japan with nukes to get exclusive post-war control over Japan.
I know there is much more to it than that, but I don't post on DAC
for top-grade intellectual debate/discourse, I come here to regress
and "pee in public".

Regards to DAC regulars, lurkers and assorted freaks.

[Corvwyn]

Are you (Norway) claiming to be innocent of Human rights violations, atrocities? You want Bush punished for going to war with Iraq? Where are all the bleeding hearts for the Iraqi civilians killed and tortured by Sadam? You want Truman punished for dropping the A-bombs? Go here:
Human rights under the Norwegian Monarchs and dictators Clean up your house.

Hehe, amusing site there. The norwegian sailors should most definitely been treated better. This site even brought that traitor Quisling in, as if he was supported by us! This site is quite extreme, and they need to get their facts right.

Dammit man! You almost got me into the trap of discussing this again...

[Retlaw83]

I am going to depart this thread for fun by asking a really stupid and
slightly inane question. What if?
The Japanese islands were divided like Korea and Germany?
If there are any Japanese here, I would like to ask... would you sacrifice
two cities to prevent that from happening?
This is based on a deliberately simplistic premise- that the US "zapped"
Japan with nukes to get exclusive post-war control over Japan.
I know there is much more to it than that, but I don't post on DAC
for top-grade intellectual debate/discourse, I come here to regress
and "pee in public".

Regards to DAC regulars, lurkers and assorted freaks.

Well, according to the Russians, the US dropped the bombs on Japan in order to make them broker peace with the Allies before Soviet troops could storm in and conquer the main Japanese island, which would have broadened the Iron Curtain significantly.

While I'm sure that was a consideration, I'm fairly certain ending the damn war quickly was a more pressing factor.