Fallout3: What to add, and what to learn from Fallout 2

[osmosys]

My personal recommendations for Fallout 3

1. Include birds eye view of the game. Avoid any perspective changes.

2. Use 3D models and 3D buildings on top of 2D landscape. Make sure that the 3D parts look “dirty� and don’t have that cleaned antiseptic quality that many games have. The new star wars movies shot in digital have this weird “clean� look that takes away from the grunge of reality. A lot of games suffer from the same problem.

3. Use both a turned based and a real time combat system. It’s better to have both because it’s just too divisive and issue to stick with one or the other. I remember one of the designers talked about using both for Fallout 3 Van Buren before it was canceled.

4. Include a lot of gore, or allow a patch if the watchdog groups get too psycho. Better yet just allow a gore filter with a parental lock.

5. Use lots of adult themes: Revenge, corruption, espionage, war, famine, plague, addiction, apocalypse, carnage, sex, pornography, exploitation, slavery, mutation, environment destruction, illiteracy,

6. Stick with the dark slow music.

7. Just use the same guns from the earlier Fallout 2’s, and add a few. Maybe go for a bit more realism with the models?

8. Add some new functionality to the PIP boy. The quest logs could be a bit more complete. Allow the player to add function modules to the pip boy.

9. Stay with the 1950’s motif and avoid the changed style that seemed to affect the power armor in Fallout Tactics.

10. Stick with mostly text and avoid making every character have speech.

11. Talking heads was a neat system, but perhaps something a bit more advanced is in order now.

12. A common problem with new games is that developers keep trying to re-invent the wheel. There is no need to do this with Fallout 3.

Things that made fallout 2 great:


1. Special system – Just plain great
2. Isometric Birds Eye View.
3. Adult Theme - become a porn star, trade slaves…
4. Extreme Violence – Look I can see his ribcage!
5. Moody Music – I’m suspicious that Richard D. James of Aphex Twin did a track for Fallout 2. Listen to “Windowsill in Selection Ambient Works 2 CD 2�
6. Great dialogue
7. Open game world – Non-linear
8. Monopoly Styled Character Sheet Art.
9. Incredible game aesthetic. Raymond Loewy style of the 1950’s.
10. Multiple ways to play the game. Be evil, or nice or something in between.
11. The awesome random encounters.
12. The huge array of weapons you could find and hoard. The treasure hunt aspect was very strong.

Things that sucked:

1. Repetitive NPC artwork. Look another bum in rags… This was primarily due to the time it took to make sprites for each character. With a new engine the time can be cut down because of the advantage of skinning models.


2. No control over party AI, or stupid characters. Some people loved this feature, but personally I think it has to go. Having a few dumb characters is funny, but watching Sulik machine gun your party gets old, and making him less agressive really cut into his utility.
3. Limited upgrade options for many AI characters.
4. Low game resolution - This will be fixed automatically with the new Fallout.
5. Bugs – Game sucks without the patch
6. No home base to store AI characters for later use. Someone told me that you could leave characters anywhere in the world. This is true. However, I think something more interactive would be fun.
7. Lack of different vehicles. Van Buren had a bunch slated...
8. Lack of co-op play. (Ok I’m stretching it here)
9. Some of the skills didn't do much and they cost as much as the other skills. For example, gambling was a skill and it cost as much as more important skills like firearms and first aid. Not all skills were created equal so they should cost a different ammount of points.


Things that worry me:

1. Consoles are king now. The game may be unavoidably console oriented. The game will most likely be available on XBOX360 and maybe PS3. This automatically means the game could be dumbed down to some degree. Think about the differences between Deus Ex 1, and Deus Ex 2.

2. The emphasis on 3D games has twisted the style of many older 2D type games that just don't adapt to 3D very well. Think about the differences between Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. Two games sharing many common components with the glaring difference of perspective that changes everything.

3. Bethesda may not want or be willing/able to make the game as adult oriented as Fallout 2. Fans may have to hack the game to bring it to more bloodier levels. Many new games seem to have less and less blood. It all started with Columbine...

These three issues seem almost unavoidable in the current game climate.

[Kahgan]

:urgh:



:wehc:

[Thor Kaufman]

:urgh:



:wehc:

I concur

[Bloodlust]

What,Ozzmosys? You got ridiculized and humiliated over at Nma and now you want to get humilliated here too?

Pretty clever

[vx trauma]

Fresh start at DAC. Good luck.

[MadBill]

blah blah blah

Yeah well I just ran out of cream cheese, so Fallout 3 better come with free cheese, or failing that, a coupon for free cheese.

[osmosys]

What,Ozzmosys? You got ridiculized and humiliated over at Nma and now you want to get humilliated here too?

Pretty clever

I wouldn't really consider it humiliated. I feel that some people on No Mutants Allowed are a bit cynical and callus, so now I'm seeing how people on this forum are.

So far no one has called my post a "cess pool", so it seems that people on this forum are more grown up.

[Blargh]

The topic opener, your post, osmosys, is a fetid cluster of blatantly regurgitated musings well past their provocation-of-thought-by-date. Further, it is a convincing argument for the pretense of/actual cursory reading, and the use of at least one search engine.

Just as your presence and the likely reaction(s) is/are an argument for the wonders of lurking rather than blithe, spontaneous participation.

In short, your comment is a cesspool.

I feel that some people on No Mutants Allowed are a bit cynical and callus, so now I'm seeing how people on this forum are.

*laughs*

Fun times ahead !

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

So far no one has called my post a "cess pool", so it seems that people on this forum are more grown up.

Obviously you haven't read the rest of the forums. Though the use of the chew icon should of clued you in.

[VasikkA]

1. Include birds eye view of the game. Avoid any perspective changes.

Too late for that.

2. Use 3D models and 3D buildings on top of 2D landscape. Make sure that the 3D parts look “dirty� and don’t have that cleaned antiseptic quality that many games have. The new star wars movies shot in digital have this weird “clean� look that takes away from the grunge of reality. A lot of games suffer from the same problem.

Play the game without a graphics accelerator, same effect.

3. Use both a turned based and a real time combat system. It’s better to have both because it’s just too divisive and issue to stick with one or the other. I remember one of the designers talked about using both for Fallout 3 Van Buren before it was canceled.

Or better yet, Continous Turd-based Combat.

4. Include a lot of gore, or allow a patch if the watchdog groups get too psycho. Better yet just allow a gore filter with a parental lock.

5. Use lots of adult themes: Revenge, corruption, espionage, war, famine, plague, addiction, apocalypse, carnage, sex, pornography, exploitation, slavery, mutation, environment destruction, illiteracy,

Ah yes, the most important aspect of Fallout. I agree 117%.

6. Stick with the dark slow music.

What, no super mutants dancing to country music? A shame.

7. Just use the same guns from the earlier Fallout 2’s, and add a few. Maybe go for a bit more realism with the models?

You mean guns like Steyr Aug, PSG1 and MP5K PDW? I was hoping to wield dual wakizashis and throwing stars.

8. Add some new functionality to the PIP boy. The quest logs could be a bit more complete. Allow the player to add function modules to the pip boy.

I want a journal that updates automatically every time you talk to someone with town gossip and endless jabber of the background and family tree of the owners of the wooden leg you're trying to find. It makes it much more fun trying to spot the quest requirements.

9. Stay with the 1950’s motif and avoid the changed style that seemed to affect the power armor in Fallout Tactics.

They changed the Power Armor? Why did no one notify me?

10. Stick with mostly text and avoid making every character have speech.

Unless they are Ron 'Uwe's bitch' Perlman and Richard Dean Anderson.

11. Talking heads was a neat system, but perhaps something a bit more advanced is in order now.

I bet Valve could lend their facial expression engine for a dollar or two.

12. A common problem with new games is that developers keep trying to re-invent the wheel. There is no need to do this with Fallout 3.

Yeah, ditch the ideas above.

Things that made fallout 2 great:


1. Special system – Just plain great
2. Isometric Birds Eye View.
3. Adult Theme - become a porn star, trade slaves…
4. Extreme Violence – Look I can see his ribcage!
5. Moody Music – I’m suspicious that Richard D. James of Aphex Twin did a track for Fallout 2. Listen to “Windowsill in Selection Ambient Works 2 CD 2�
6. Great dialogue
7. Open game world – Non-linear
8. Monopoly Styled Character Sheet Art.
9. Incredible game aesthetic. Raymond Loewy style of the 1950’s.
10. Multiple ways to play the game. Be evil, or nice or something in between.
11. The awesome random encounters.
12. The huge array of weapons you could find and hoard. The treasure hunt aspect was very strong.

I was hoping to read the things that made Fallout great. Oh well, next time...

11. The awesome random encounters.

I remember how I almost came in my pants after the 111th encounter with radscorpions.

Things that sucked:

1. Repetitive NPC artwork. Look another bum in rags… This was primarily due to the time it took to make sprites for each character. With a new engine the time can be cut down because of the advantage of skinning models.

Wouldn't it be cool if you could see all the scars you've gotten while fighting the deathclaws?

2. No control over party AI, or stupid characters. Some people loved this feature, but personally I think it has to go. Having a few dumb characters is funny, but watching Sulik machine gun your party gets old, and making him less agressive really cut into his utility.

So you want to change the roleplaying perspective from player-based to party-based. Well, why not; 3-some is much more fun than 2-some. Will I be able to design all characters by myself a la Icewind Dale?

3. Limited upgrade options for many AI characters.
4. Low game resolution - This will be fixed automatically with the new Fallout.

...

5. Bugs – Game sucks without the patch

Somehow I consider this essential to Fallout and I don't want it altered.

6. No home base to store AI characters for later use. Someone told me that you could leave characters anywhere in the world. This is true. However, I think something more interactive would be fun.

Something along the lines of a tavern where they wait 24/7 for your return?

7. Lack of different vehicles. Van Buren had a bunch slated...

There are some minor issues like lack of fuel and power cells, but thank god they're only minor.

8. Lack of co-op play. (Ok I’m stretching it here)

Right, I'm sure Bethesda will eventually promise this feature like almost every game project but that would mean the game will miss christmas season.

9. Some of the skills didn't do much and they cost as much as the other skills. For example, gambling was a skill and it cost as much as more important skills like firearms and first aid. Not all skills were created equal so they should cost a different ammount of points.

First aid was important? I've yet to read Sun Tzu: The Art of Balancing to comment on this one.

Things that worry me:

1. Consoles are king now. The game may be unavoidably console oriented. The game will most likely be available on XBOX360 and maybe PS3. This automatically means the game could be dumbed down to some degree. Think about the differences between Deus Ex 1, and Deus Ex 2.

Don't worry. PC has no technical limitations when it comes to dumbing down games.

2. The emphasis on 3D games has twisted the style of many older 2D type games that just don't adapt to 3D very well. Think about the differences between Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. Two games sharing many common components with the glaring difference of perspective that changes everything.

Sorry, I was never punished as a child with a Nintendo. You have to come up with another example.

3. Bethesda may not want or be willing/able to make the game as adult oriented as Fallout 2. Fans may have to hack the game to bring it to more bloodier levels. Many new games seem to have less and less blood. It all started with Columbine...

But what about ze dead children???

Oh, and welcome to DAC.

[Urizen]

osmosys: I actually consider myself one of the nicer people on this forum, so I'm gonna try to be gentle. Here it comes: You're 14 years old. Don't expect anything but ridicule from people who may be twice your age. One or two of the people on DAC actually have jobs and girlfriends. Simply put, they're better than you, and that gives them the right to throw shit at you.

[PiP]

NMA are cynical, not us.

[Kahgan]

1. Include birds eye view of the game. Avoid any perspective changes.

Too late for that.

2. Use 3D models and 3D buildings on top of 2D landscape. Make sure that the 3D parts look “dirty� and don’t have that cleaned antiseptic quality that many games have. The new star wars movies shot in digital have this weird “clean� look that takes away from the grunge of reality. A lot of games suffer from the same problem.

Play the game without a graphics accelerator, same effect.

3. Use both a turned based and a real time combat system. It’s better to have both because it’s just too divisive and issue to stick with one or the other. I remember one of the designers talked about using both for Fallout 3 Van Buren before it was canceled.

Or better yet, Continous Turd-based Combat.

4. Include a lot of gore, or allow a patch if the watchdog groups get too psycho. Better yet just allow a gore filter with a parental lock.

5. Use lots of adult themes: Revenge, corruption, espionage, war, famine, plague, addiction, apocalypse, carnage, sex, pornography, exploitation, slavery, mutation, environment destruction, illiteracy,

Ah yes, the most important aspect of Fallout. I agree 117%.

6. Stick with the dark slow music.

What, no super mutants dancing to country music? A shame.

7. Just use the same guns from the earlier Fallout 2’s, and add a few. Maybe go for a bit more realism with the models?

You mean guns like Steyr Aug, PSG1 and MP5K PDW? I was hoping to wield dual wakizashis and throwing stars.

8. Add some new functionality to the PIP boy. The quest logs could be a bit more complete. Allow the player to add function modules to the pip boy.

I want a journal that updates automatically every time you talk to someone with town gossip and endless jabber of the background and family tree of the owners of the wooden leg you're trying to find. It makes it much more fun trying to spot the quest requirements.

9. Stay with the 1950’s motif and avoid the changed style that seemed to affect the power armor in Fallout Tactics.

They changed the Power Armor? Why did no one notify me?

10. Stick with mostly text and avoid making every character have speech.

Unless they are Ron 'Uwe's bitch' Perlman and Richard Dean Anderson.

11. Talking heads was a neat system, but perhaps something a bit more advanced is in order now.

I bet Valve could lend their facial expression engine for a dollar or two.

12. A common problem with new games is that developers keep trying to re-invent the wheel. There is no need to do this with Fallout 3.

Yeah, ditch the ideas above.

Things that made fallout 2 great:


1. Special system – Just plain great
2. Isometric Birds Eye View.
3. Adult Theme - become a porn star, trade slaves…
4. Extreme Violence – Look I can see his ribcage!
5. Moody Music – I’m suspicious that Richard D. James of Aphex Twin did a track for Fallout 2. Listen to “Windowsill in Selection Ambient Works 2 CD 2�
6. Great dialogue
7. Open game world – Non-linear
8. Monopoly Styled Character Sheet Art.
9. Incredible game aesthetic. Raymond Loewy style of the 1950’s.
10. Multiple ways to play the game. Be evil, or nice or something in between.
11. The awesome random encounters.
12. The huge array of weapons you could find and hoard. The treasure hunt aspect was very strong.

I was hoping to read the things that made Fallout great. Oh well, next time...

11. The awesome random encounters.

I remember how I almost came in my pants after the 111th encounter with radscorpions.

Things that sucked:

1. Repetitive NPC artwork. Look another bum in rags… This was primarily due to the time it took to make sprites for each character. With a new engine the time can be cut down because of the advantage of skinning models.

Wouldn't it be cool if you could see all the scars you've gotten while fighting the deathclaws?

2. No control over party AI, or stupid characters. Some people loved this feature, but personally I think it has to go. Having a few dumb characters is funny, but watching Sulik machine gun your party gets old, and making him less agressive really cut into his utility.

So you want to change the roleplaying perspective from player-based to party-based. Well, why not; 3-some is much more fun than 2-some. Will I be able to design all characters by myself a la Icewind Dale?

3. Limited upgrade options for many AI characters.
4. Low game resolution - This will be fixed automatically with the new Fallout.

...

5. Bugs – Game sucks without the patch

Somehow I consider this essential to Fallout and I don't want it altered.

6. No home base to store AI characters for later use. Someone told me that you could leave characters anywhere in the world. This is true. However, I think something more interactive would be fun.

Something along the lines of a tavern where they wait 24/7 for your return?

7. Lack of different vehicles. Van Buren had a bunch slated...

There are some minor issues like lack of fuel and power cells, but thank god they're only minor.

8. Lack of co-op play. (Ok I’m stretching it here)

Right, I'm sure Bethesda will eventually promise this feature like almost every game project but that would mean the game will miss christmas season.

9. Some of the skills didn't do much and they cost as much as the other skills. For example, gambling was a skill and it cost as much as more important skills like firearms and first aid. Not all skills were created equal so they should cost a different ammount of points.

First aid was important? I've yet to read Sun Tzu: The Art of Balancing to comment on this one.

Things that worry me:

1. Consoles are king now. The game may be unavoidably console oriented. The game will most likely be available on XBOX360 and maybe PS3. This automatically means the game could be dumbed down to some degree. Think about the differences between Deus Ex 1, and Deus Ex 2.

Don't worry. PC has no technical limitations when it comes to dumbing down games.

2. The emphasis on 3D games has twisted the style of many older 2D type games that just don't adapt to 3D very well. Think about the differences between Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. Two games sharing many common components with the glaring difference of perspective that changes everything.

Sorry, I was never punished as a child with a Nintendo. You have to come up with another example.

3. Bethesda may not want or be willing/able to make the game as adult oriented as Fallout 2. Fans may have to hack the game to bring it to more bloodier levels. Many new games seem to have less and less blood. It all started with Columbine...

But what about ze dead children???

Oh, and welcome to DAC.

this is the most gentle and nice answer you can possibly expect.

[ApTyp]

1. Include birds eye view of the game. Avoid any perspective changes.

As long as the game is being made for isometric camera and not any other perspective, I'm not against them throwing in rotating camera or (shock) first-person camera.

2. Use 3D models and 3D buildings on top of 2D landscape. Make sure that the 3D parts look “dirty� and don’t have that cleaned antiseptic quality that many games have. The new star wars movies shot in digital have this weird “clean� look that takes away from the grunge of reality. A lot of games suffer from the same problem.

Graphics whore

3. Use both a turned based and a real time combat system. It’s better to have both because it’s just too divisive and issue to stick with one or the other. I remember one of the designers talked about using both for Fallout 3 Van Buren before it was canceled.

If fighting 10 rats bothers you, why can't you just give the control of your PC to AI with pre-configured rule set, and watch automated combat? What is it with you swell guy and real-time combat?

4. Include a lot of gore, or allow a patch if the watchdog groups get too psycho. Better yet just allow a gore filter with a parental lock.

5. Use lots of adult themes: Revenge, corruption, espionage, war, famine, plague, addiction, apocalypse, carnage, sex, pornography, exploitation, slavery, mutation, environment destruction, illiteracy,

Don't make the game degenerate for the sake of being degenerate, or it'll look just as stupid as Postal 2.

6. Stick with the dark slow music.

...or else you'll boycott it?

7. Just use the same guns from the earlier Fallout 2’s, and add a few. Maybe go for a bit more realism with the models?

Fallout takes place in 23'd century. What the fuck do you mean by "more realism"? By the time The War starts, M16's and MP5's are fucking museum relics.

8. Add some new functionality to the PIP boy. The quest logs could be a bit more complete. Allow the player to add function modules to the pip boy.

I'm all for more detailed quest logs. It'd be neat to see how you solved them, how much XP you got, and to have an option to print your quest stats to a file.

11. Talking heads was a neat system, but perhaps something a bit more advanced is in order now.

Talking heads is a storytelling device, not a technology. Please die.

2. No control over party AI, or stupid characters. Some people loved this feature, but personally I think it has to go. Having a few dumb characters is funny, but watching Sulik machine gun your party gets old, and making him less agressive really cut into his utility.

Direct NPC control is stupid. You're stupid. That's why they're NPC's, not PC's. Also, nothing prevents your stupid ass from not having any NPC's if you don't like how they fight. Also, you notice that your party member loves a certain gun but can't use it properly, just take their goddamn gun away - that's why you are the party leader, being a total asshole is your job, swell guy.

6. No home base to store AI characters for later use. Someone told me that you could leave characters anywhere in the world. This is true. However, I think something more interactive would be fun.

Play Arcanum. NPC's get pissed if you leave them alone for too long. NPC's are "little people", not toys you can play around with then dump in a cave when you find something better.

7. Lack of different vehicles. Van Buren had a bunch slated...

Everyone who thinks Fallout has to have vehicles is a dumb jew.

9. Some of the skills didn't do much and they cost as much as the other skills. For example, gambling was a skill and it cost as much as more important skills like firearms and first aid. Not all skills were created equal so they should cost a different ammount of points.

Just because you may only use your Theoretical Physics knowledge once or twice in the game it doesn't mean it should be as easy to get a PhD as mastering a smooth trigger pull. You dumb jew.

[Haris]

If you want to impress people on this forum you should now copy all they wrote. And cut and paste crap in between it. Than when they do it back on you again. You do it again till they give up. Just never give up. Sometimes posts might seem miles long.

[ApTyp]

If you want to impress people on this forum you should now copy all they wrote. And cut and paste crap in between it. Than when they do it back on you again. You do it again till they give up. Just never give up. Sometimes posts might seem miles long.

I'm banning you from Internet.

[Kahgan]

I'm banning you from the world.

[ApTyp]

You're not the boss of me

[Haris]

I'm banning you

No..

from Internet.

You are not....

See how i did it there. Its not hard. Quoting is the way to make em think you got an answer for everything. Oh yea and i allmost forgot. Get your post count up above 1000 than your gonna be one in their 1337 regular gang that forbids all 1337 lang.

[VasikkA]

I smell jealousy.