So, what now? More about cRPGs

[VasikkA]

3. Speaking of role-playing, how do you understand the term RPG? What features or design elements are important to you in an RPG and why?

"Role playing" actually means slipping into the role of another character and acting and behaving accordingly. A game that is focused on role playing has to be able to make the game players think "If I were him, what would I do next and how would I solve this problem?" and – of course - offer the freedom to realize their ideas. Most RPGs come with a character generation which allows to design and shape the protagonist to a certain degree. On that score, we go our own way and nail the players down on one character, our nameless hero. Thus we are able to tell his story and put great effort into the way our hero is presented. Still, the players have great freedom to do exactly what they want and influence his character development in the course of the adventure. Apart from this enormous degree of freedom, an RPG needs a captivating story to come to life. In a first person shooter, for example, an NPC doesn't need a background and a sophisticated simulation of human relations since his screen-time is usually smaller than ten seconds. An RPG needs all this to an extend greater than in any other genre.

http://www.rpgcodex.com/content.php?id=131

What do you think of this character-based definition?

[Jesus Christ]

In that definition, Oblivion get a big
F-

I like the emfasis on freedome to act. That about sums up what an RPG charector should be (minus the "we made a great story but you got the frreedom to play as you like" marketing gobbledygook).

[St. Toxic]

"Role playing" actually means slipping into the role of another character and acting and behaving accordingly.

Yeah, like in Max Payne. Overall it's a bunch of vague bullshit -- you need the concrete in there.

I've also thinking about the actual decline of rpg's, how it went from point leasure to point terror, and while it is a theory that's been repeated many times over, I honestly think it began with graphical representation.

The earliest crpg's we had a black screen with a white font on it, guiding us through some horrible ordeal, but it worked and followed the basic rpg principles just like jew noses follow money -- very, very closely. Some misplaced larpers said "GUh durh, where can I buy my imagination?" and so we were treated with small icons, perhaps in different colors, a bit of top down graphic action -- and it still sort of worked, as it was there only to give a helping hand to those who couldn't figure out what a "castle" or "chest" or "king" looked like on their own. "-The world's pretty ok now, doc" said King Larp "But I'm not connecting with my character, because I just keep running around killing things without any actual thought." We get 2d graphics, and a slight dumbing down so that people can go "Oh really? Oh really?" when faced with a fingernail graphical menu of choices (instead of thinking them up) and feel good about themselves. Then we enter the timeline of immersion becoming synonimous with graphics, and eventually first-person is deemed the most immersive because it's "so real", and with that we're basicly just jumping out of the rpg guideline completely. What used to be a room description based on your characters perception, then later on an overview of the room with details based on your characters perception, becomes you looking at the door on the other end of the hall and getting the fuck out of there, because it's a boring gosh darn room eh. And when a mentality like that catches on and becomes standard, then it's the aim of marketting departements around the world. What used to be a dynamic world held up by mathematical strings, has been replaced with a day out in the forest wearing chainmale and fighting brigands larp simulation.

[Spazmo]

Oh, hell, I just don't feel like it. All I want is to be loved.

[hat_man99]

[Jesus Christ]

"Role playing" actually means slipping into the role of another character and acting and behaving accordingly.

Yeah, like in Max Payne. Overall it's a bunch of vague bullshit -- you need the concrete in there.

Vague but accurate if you remove all the marketing mumbo-jumbo. You are correct that we need "concrete" or at least as close as we can get in such an open issue.

I've also thinking about the actual decline of rpg's, how it went from point leasure to point terror, and while it is a theory that's been repeated many times over, I honestly think it began with graphical representation.

The earliest crpg's we had a black screen with a white font on it, guiding us through some horrible ordeal, but it worked and followed the basic rpg principles just like jew noses follow money -- very, very closely.

New York (an old time DOS text RPG) is still the best RPG of all time, with the exception maybe of Fallout. If anyone knows where to find a copy I would be eternally grateful, and it would make a great example for the beginning (or near the beginning) of a timeline to describe said decline of the RPG.

Not all Jews are greedy my good Saint.

Some misplaced larpers said "GUh durh, where can I buy my imagination?" and so we were treated with small icons, perhaps in different colors, a bit of top down graphic action -- and it still sort of worked, as it was there only to give a helping hand to those who couldn't figure out what a "castle" or "chest" or "king" looked like on their own. "-The world's pretty ok now, doc" said King Larp "But I'm not connecting with my character, because I just keep running around killing things without any actual thought." We get 2d graphics, and a slight dumbing down so that people can go "Oh really? Oh really?" when faced with a fingernail graphical menu of choices (instead of thinking them up) and feel good about themselves..

Castle...

another good RPG from back in the day (again, anyone know where to get it now?). Your character was a # the bad guys where * and everything was done in ASCII with a text description of events and options. Perhaps another marker on a graphic timeline for us to create.

Then we enter the timeline of immersion becoming synonymous with graphics, and eventually first-person is deemed the most immersive because it's "so real", and with that we're basically just jumping out of the rpg guideline completely. What used to be a room description based on your characters perception, then later on an overview of the room with details based on your characters perception, becomes you looking at the door on the other end of the hall and getting the fuck out of there, because it's a boring gosh darn room eh. And when a mentality like that catches on and becomes standard, then it's the aim of marketting departements around the world. What used to be a dynamic world held up by mathematical strings, has been replaced with a day out in the forest wearing chainmale and fighting brigands larp simulation.

You might have missed a few points in between the top-down ASCII/text based RPG and the blasphemous Oblivion style FPIRPSG (First Person Imitation Role Playing Shooter Game) but the idea is very solid.

Why don’t we all post what we know to be important events in the rise and the decline of the RPG and one of us (I will volunteer for this) can make it a graphic for the people who can’t understand without it. If we can find links to examples (i.e. New York, and Castle) that would be great to bring us back to the beginning.

This could be a great beginning and it would give the good Saint something to work off of.


EDIT: I love you Spazmo

[PiP]

You cannot win the heart of the glacier, nor can you conquer the mind of the moron.

ditto.

[S4ur0n27]

DAC is a glacier full of morons?

[Thor Kaufman]

Feelings Online, congs