My opinion on ghouls

[b.peps]

Ghoul Characteristics: Should we change them?

*This turned out to be a huge post, so I'm going to summarize it at the beginning and you can read the rest if you disagree with my thoughts...*



CONCLUSIONS:

The current stats of Ghouls, high PE, average EN, average AG, need to be changed. Future Fallout games/mods need to make ghouls tough, slow, poor sighted, highly intelligent, and very lucky. They would be good at science, repair, doctor/first aid, traps, and gambling. I don't think they should be combat-oriented characters though, except as medics.

If Lenny's starting stats from Fo2 are about average for a Ghoul, then according to Fo2 these are:

ST=4, PE=6, EN=5, CH=3, IN=7, AG=5, LK=5

However, the average Ghoul in FoT has:

ST=3, PE=8, EN=5, CH=4, INT=6, AG=4, LK=7


REASONS TO CHANGE GHOUL STATS:

STRENGTH- All Fallout games acknowledge that Ghouls have below average strength. I'd agree more with the FoT average of ST=3 for Ghouls, considering the damage sustained by their bodies over the years.

PERCEPTION- Most Ghouls seem to be missing their ears, nose, and usually an eye. How could they possibly have high perception, especially the FoT PE=8? It would seem that the opposite should be true - ghouls should have much lower perception abilities.

ENDURANCE- The max is EN=6 for Ghouls. Because ghouls can exist quite easily while missing bodyparts and having pieces of flesh fall off, I'd say their endurance should be quite high on average, atleast EN=8. This would result in powerful Ghouls, yes, but this would be balanced by very low strength and agility. They should be tough but slow, giving the player plenty of time to spray bullets at them or run away.

CHARISMA- Obviously this is, and should be, one of their lowest stats.

INTELLIGENCE- While Ghouls do have high averages of intelligence in both Fo2 and FoT, these should also be increased to an average of IN=8. Why? Because Ghouls survived in Pre-War times, and had alot of up-close experience with high-tech equipment, not to mention years of survival experience in the wasteland.

According to Chris Taylor, Ghouls are the result of radiation and FEV. This doesn't make sense, however, as high levels of radiation + FEV are usually fatal to the victim. I agree with Tim Cain's view that Ghouls are simply the result of nuclear radiation. (Source: Fallout Bible part 5)

Harold's condition could be explained by exposure to some radioactive materials within the military base where he lost the rest of his group. So, his memory loss could be from being hit on the head and not from FEV exposure, which means that MOST ghouls should retain their memories from pre-war times, making them "super-intelligent."

AGILITY- Fo2 and FoT give Ghouls nearly average agility. This should be lowered. They've got body parts falling off, they shouldn't be able to move fast. In further additions of Fallout Ghouls should be permanently winded.

LK- Fo2 gives them average luck, while FoT gives them very good luck. It would be reasonable to assume that most Ghouls, having survived a nuclear war and then 160 years of fallout, should have high luck, probably averaging LK=7.


RANDOM THOUGHTS:

Do Ghouls need food?

I'd say no, but if there's evidence from Fo2 that contradicts this, please inform me. Most likely they can't regenerate without the aid of stimpacks or chemicals. So, if they don't need food, how would they survive? I'd say they can survive by chemical means for few hundred years (thus the Brain's plan to use Vault City to "renew" Ghouls would probably work.) However, without chemicals or stimpacks they would slowly disentigrate over the years, due to wear and tear. Bacteria (what normally causes rotting) would probably be minimalized in the Fallout universe considering that the radiation most likely sterilized most of the landscape. One could explain their "rotted" appearance by the fact that most Ghouls are not allowed in civilized areas, so they have poor medical treatment and a minimal amount of sustaining chemicals.

How long did it take for the Ghouls to become "ghoulish?"

Well, if one agrees with Tim Cain that Ghouls are a product radiation and not FEV, then it would seem that most Ghouls became Ghoulish either during or immediately after the nuclear war. EDIT: I checked the timeline, Necropolis was founded a mere six years after the nuclear war, indicating that the transformation of Human to Ghoul was very quick.

I think both of the above would be important in any addition to the Fallout series. For instance, if Ghouls live hundreds of years if given enough medical care, they should play an important role in Fo3. If Ghouls became "ghoulish" immediately during or after the nuclear war, they would play an important role in any Fallout prequel. (People would be terrified of them and probably kill many of them, which would explain why Set and his followers killed humans on sight in Fo1)

[Ausir]

As for zombies, I think some ghouls could get mad and zombie-like after their transformation. And what's the deal with resurrecting 3 years old dead threads anyway?

[Aneurysm]

And what's the deal with resurrecting 3 years old dead threads anyway?

*Fixed*

[S4ur0n27]

He has that avatar Blargh used to have

[Blargh]

'b.peps' is fortunate (truly) that mine was a far more stylish and memorable take upon that particular rogue. Yes. Otherwise, there'd be nowt for it but The Penguins.

[b.peps]

As for zombies, I think some ghouls could get mad and zombie-like after their transformation.

Agreed.

And what's the deal with resurrecting 3 years old dead threads anyway?

I was attempting to avoid comments like:

"omfg u n00b there si tons of threads abuot ghouls alredy."

[St. Toxic]

It all sounds very agreeable. However I think ghouls should eat food, albeit rarely. A bit of fruit once in a while, even if their mutated digestion systems take months to process it -- likely into rockhard feces -- would do the ghoul concept a bit of good. Afterall, ghouls are supposed to produce some general sympathy, that they are like "us" in every way, except for being horribly ugly and frail. Unfortunatly I have no idea what's canon and what's not, when it comes to dining ghouls.

I was attempting to avoid comments

There's no avoiding les comménts on dac. When posting you loose by default.

[VasikkA]

Your assumptions about the ghoul character build seem logical to me.

According to Chris Taylor, Ghouls are the result of radiation and FEV. This doesn't make sense, however, as high levels of radiation + FEV are usually fatal to the victim. I agree with Tim Cain's view that Ghouls are simply the result of nuclear radiation. (Source: Fallout Bible part 5)

It's hard to speak for the whole community, but I believe the consensus is that Ghouls are a result of exposure only to nuclear radiation. About the fatal part... isn't normal nuclear radiation usually fatal, too? This is one of the facts the setting ignores, but it's based on an alternative reality anyway.

Harold's condition could be explained by exposure to some radioactive materials within the military base where he lost the rest of his group. So, his memory loss could be from being hit on the head and not from FEV exposure, which means that MOST ghouls should retain their memories from pre-war times, making them "super-intelligent."

Harold is special. He is a result of both FEV exposure and nuclear radiation. He is neither a mutant nor a ghoul, despite the ghoulish appearance. (Yes, a contradiction)

link - Wiki

it would seem that most Ghouls became Ghoulish either during or immediately after the nuclear war. EDIT: I checked the timeline, Necropolis was founded a mere six years after the nuclear war, indicating that the transformation of Human to Ghoul was very quick.

How do you know the inhabitants of Necropolis were 'fully' ghouls upon founding of the community? What if their transformation into 'ghouldom' just had started?

Do Ghouls need food?

I'd say no, but if there's evidence from Fo2 that contradicts this, please inform me. Most likely they can't regenerate without the aid of stimpacks or chemicals. So, if they don't need food, how would they survive? I'd say they can survive by chemical means for few hundred years (thus the Brain's plan to use Vault City to "renew" Ghouls would probably work.) However, without chemicals or stimpacks they would slowly disentigrate over the years, due to wear and tear. Bacteria (what normally causes rotting) would probably be minimalized in the Fallout universe considering that the radiation most likely sterilized most of the landscape. One could explain their "rotted" appearance by the fact that most Ghouls are not allowed in civilized areas, so they have poor medical treatment and a minimal amount of sustaining chemicals.

Ghouls are still human, only with some differences(mostly physical). We can only speculate if they have a functional digestive system or not, but they aren't magical undead zombies. In my opinion, they would still need nutrition for upkeep of bodily functions.

I'd like to see ghouls in Fallout 3 as near extinct, segregated and hated 'species' in the Wasteland, much like how they were portrayed in Fallout 1.

[Thor Kaufman]

What puzzles me is the CH of 4, that's like a homely chick or a slightly degenerated guy's CH, or not?
Or are them ghouls especially eloquent which raises their CH like 3 points?
Maybe it's just the satisfying of fetishes that makes them so desirable, like leper fetish, amputee fetish and whatnot.

reminds me of that amputees are hot topic on #fallout some time ago

[Redeye]

In FO2, the Doctor in Vault City (or was it that admin guy?) indicated that
with VCitys tech, a ghoul reversal to human might be possible.

That was part of the "being reborn" thing with the brain rat.

Also, the Enclave exile in NCR was working on a cure, but it didn't work.

It was one hell of a rad-a-waster, though.

Or you could dump it in the well in Broken Hills for special effect.

I wanted to take the "cure" to the doctor in Vault City to see if it could
be improved upon.
No dialogue option for that.


Oh, and the "being reborn" thing might be a Roadwar 2000 reference.
"The Reborners".

[Stainless]

It's pretty resonable to think that Ghouls need to consume food, etc to survive. There's proof of it in Fallout 1, with the constant water references, along with their cannablism of normies.

[jetbaby]

Ditto on the food needed blah blah blah.

And for future reference, Tactics is NOT an acceptable reference for anything but insane laughter.

[Redeye]

Ditto on the food needed blah blah blah.

And for future reference, Tactics is NOT an acceptable reference for anything but insane laughter.

The shotgun (silverhawk?) has an option to fire both barrels.

That was nice.

Some of the death animations were cool.

That slutty mechanic (Barret?) was also a nice touch.

[MadBill]

Image

Can broken images be changed to "Imagine"?

[Redeye]

Image

Can broken images be changed to "Imagine"?

Nice idea.

But the image is working.

[VasikkA]

I'd choose the Fighter Jet.

[S4ur0n27]

Where is that?

[Ausir]

As for FOT, the new SPECIAL perks and traits were also mostly good, as well as some changes to the old ones, like the new version of the Kamikaze trait, which got much more useful.

[Redeye]

Where is that?

Burning Man Festival


It's Hat Man!

[VasikkA]

Burning Man Festival

Mutant vehicles?