What Oblivion taught us

[Redeye]

Hey, a little perspective here.

OK?

Remember all that trash we talked about Oblivion?

Remember how wrong we all were?

So why dish FO3?

[St. Toxic]

Not more action than the occasional "Pirates have boarded the ship what do U do?!?!?" By instant I mean real time, not game time.

A bit of cgi perhaps, a slight on-board conversation, a handful of combat ( not always mind you ) and balance is achieved. There have to be factors that point out "Well look, even if you've just crossed the whole gameworld in 4 minutes, your character has been stuck on that boat for weeks." I guess we agree.

You're talking about games where the world map is the only way to travel.

That's right, and if I'm given the choice to travel by the world map, that's my pick. I'd wager it's how most navigate when walking about huge areas, isn't it? Instead of, well y'know, just running around like a rabid racoon. Consult the map, Sebastian!

You misunderstood my point.

Nonsence! Yes, the NPC's all share one, worthless personality, and go about their day like robots. I had a good laugh at them pretending to eat, and conversations are, as previously stated by many, a brain tumour. They are tools, and you are the smith -- bad roleplay and crippled immersion. And yes, they walk away from their shops to do dumb shit and force you to stand about or find an inn, which would mean four-six separate loading times. There was no loading when it came to moving the game clock forward, why not put it in as a function? "Stand about for X hours", would indeed help a great deal, that said, I think, for the third time.

Some factors are taken into consideration, like the distance to the nearest guard outside and you being able to follow an NPC through several areas.

Yes, brilliantly coded that. When an npc walks through a loading portal, I have somewhere about 5 minutes to do the same, say "follow" the npc. We then spawn at the exact same location, me and a clone of the npc I followed back on the last map. Beyond the minute cap, I spawn with the npc clone gone out of sight, or perhaps even unspawned. It's like they licensed Quake 2 netcode and reworked it into a pile of singleplayer trash. Amazing.

I have yet to notice any connection between "distance" and "guard". They're on me like flies from the other edge of town, if I'd, say, swipe an apple from someone's garden or break into a shack, or, God forbid, kill somebody to make them shut up about Grey Fox. I did notice a timer when breaking into locked houses, I'll give you that, and one could, I suppose, imagine that it's the distance the guard has to travel to walk into the loading portal. Still, considering I broke into a home which actually had a guard right outside of it, yelling at me to stop just as I entered the facilities, and then waiting for 8 whole minutes to enter and try to stop me, I'd at least suggest that this design is rather flawed.

The limitations of XBOX360 might also be the culprit.

Oh golly, I hope they don't force loading cities in Armed Assault. Or, well, I guess I hope they do -- give the consolers a bit of a kicking eh.

Restriction is a problem.

Too open ended, too unlimited -- How can there be too much of a good thing? you ask. There's still the main story, there's still the key features, there's still the barebone appeal; separating the game from a toy. Spore for instance, I'd wager, will be a toy.

Do you really think invisible walls are a bigger problem than the completely illogical restrictions that are situated within the gameworld, not outside it.

The game map is no less part of the gameworld, and invisible walls can be used not only at the edges of the universe but also to guard key locations which you are not allowed to access. In any case -- hang on, I'll get to it in the next bit.

There's a lot more "You need to find the proper key to open this 2 inch thick wooden door" crap.

Ofcourse, it's an annoyance. Albeit, there's a door, there's a lock on the door and there's a key to open the door -- not a completely hopeless situation. I don't loose heart at the sight of that. Maybe I'll mutter some curses, but in the end the puzzle is not without a solution. But when there's no door, there are no locks and there are no keys -- when there's just air in your way, and perhaps a message saying "YOU CANNOT GO ANY FURTHER", I just quit. It's not the end of the world ( ha ha ) if I can't get to some other grassy knoll a few feet away from here, but there's really nothing stopping me except the worlds lamest excuse -- fill it with rocks or an endless abyss, or show signs of danger that would frighten me away. An impassible forest would be less painful, even a chinese wall replica with a door that says "You need to find the proper key to open this 2 inch thick wooden door" would be less hurtful, than an invisible wall. Because, it's a badly thought out situation -- it's the worst goddamn idea in the history of gaming. There are graphical possibilities to block the characters way, there could be a voice in his head saying "It's getting dark. Maybe I should turn back." some steps from the end. There are unlimited possibilities to ending this fruitless journey to the edge of the screen, so why would one use the most illogical and ugly one?

Its not just names. They can look the same, they have story behind them, they bring back memories. A simple sound effect can bring that warm feeling back that you had from playing fallout 1 and 2.

Let us use some ugly examples to understand eachother. We have Morrowind, it's moddable. We rename the towns in Morrowind, perhaps even move them around geographically, so that they are akin to the towns of Fallout. The different factions in Morrowind all get the Fallout treatment, the interface is made out to be a rip of the Pipboy, items are a straight rip from the Fallout universe and sounds / music likewise.

I don't think I'd cream my pants about it, I really don't. Is this the best we can do with what we have, or what can we, in your opinion, add to make this mod feel like a remnant from Fallout? Most importantly, what can we add to make the Fallout fans, as you said, feel all warm and giddy inside, like they did when they first played Fallout?

[Mister Leckie]

Oblivion taught me not to be so unnecessarily critical, and to enjoy the fucking game.

[Burnov]

Oblivion was way too linear.

I wanted it to be less personal and more like Daggerfall.

As it stands you can't rob stores blind in one territory and sell off the illegal goods somewhere else, like you should.

Additionally, murdering people in far off territories without suffering the consequences in other territories was one of the best things about daggerfall.

I could commit all my crimes in some anonymous boring fief and enjoy a normal standing with all the others.

As far as I'm concerned the experience I create for myself is far more important than the experience created for me by the creators. They may have ideas about what I should and shouldn't be able to do, and that's fucking stupid.

Making Fallout 3 an action game is fucking queer.

I wholeheartedly agree.

But if they intend on making it an action game, which I think we all know they will. They might as well butcher the mechanics of it so it at least plays half decently regardless of what the theme is.

[St. Toxic]

Oblivion taught me not to be so unnecessarily critical, and to enjoy the fucking game.

This sort of devolution had part in the great Cleansing. Too small a part, I'd personally say, but that's me and I had money on the Krauts. Still, you'd do well working the propaganda machine for the Nazis. I'd give you my card, but we're on the Ãœbernette; glorious technology indeed.

[Mister Leckie]

Oblivion taught me not to be so unnecessarily critical, and to enjoy the fucking game.

This sort of devolution had part in the great Cleansing. Too small a part, I'd personally say, but that's me and I had money on the Krauts. Still, you'd do well working the propaganda machine for the Nazis. I'd give you my card, but we're on the Ãœbernette; glorious technology indeed.

I can be a critical person, when it comes to such important matters as....oh say....the lives of those sharing the jewish faith....however, when it comes to 50 dollar games, which have no great impact on my life...I tend not to care so much.

My friend, you are the perfect example of ignorance expressing itself through the anonymity of the internet.


Just go play through Fallout again.

[Wolfman Walt]

Oblivion taught me not to be so unnecessarily critical, and to enjoy the fucking game.

For that to occur, the game has to be enjoyable.

[St. Toxic]

I can be a critical person, when it comes to such important matters as....oh say....the lives of those sharing the jewish faith...

Gosh sir! I'm bubbling to retort! All in due time, naturally. First, the missing piece of the puzzle.

My friend, you are the perfect example of ignorance expressing itself through the anonymity of the internet.

Foiled, are we?! Oh, it's all too well thought out! Yes, yes, important matters like the lives of those sharing the jewish faith! Ofcourse! Then let me ask you, what importance do indeed the lives of those sharing the jewish faith have to you? Ignorance you said? Then I guess you'll eat it, unless I'm seeing mate in but a simple check.

50 dollar games have no great impact on my life.

I'm very happy for you, some do get quite emotional over trite possessions, cheap thrills -- call it what you will. Or is this a rule that applies only to 50 dollar games? No matter.

You've played Fallout, as you yourself said, more than once. It did have some charm back in the days, still carries alot of it through the mist of times, you will agree I'm certain. Same as the old time classics, books, pieces of music, paintings, it stands against common evolution. Poetic, I know, but stay with me for a while longer. I'd wager, and this is a guess mind you, that when you take art that's established, unique and beautiful, throw it into a furnace, repaint it with a new shimmery coat of paint, in a new technique, with a new motive and break the old wooden frame to replace it with gold -- whatever it's become, good, bad, that's all objective -- whatever it's become, the old piece is gone, and it looses it's reserved spot in the gallery. That's my guess.

Importance? No, not really is there? I just have this thing, y'know, for principles? Yeah, I have a set of them actually, and that shit -- that shit up there, that goes against them.

Just go play through Fallout again.

I guess you'd rather piss about in Oblivion? Maybe I'm just not cut out for this millennia. Everyone's doing crack, and I'm still set on opium.

[Mister Leckie]

I can be a critical person, when it comes to such important matters as....oh say....the lives of those sharing the jewish faith...

Gosh sir! I'm bubbling to retort! All in due time, naturally. First, the missing piece of the puzzle.

My friend, you are the perfect example of ignorance expressing itself through the anonymity of the internet.

Foiled, are we?! Oh, it's all too well thought out! Yes, yes, important matters like the lives of those sharing the jewish faith! Ofcourse! Then let me ask you, what importance do indeed the lives of those sharing the jewish faith have to you? Ignorance you said? Then I guess you'll eat it, unless I'm seeing mate in but a simple check.

50 dollar games have no great impact on my life.

I'm very happy for you, some do get quite emotional over trite possessions, cheap thrills -- call it what you will. Or is this a rule that applies only to 50 dollar games? No matter.

You've played Fallout, as you yourself said, more than once. It did have some charm back in the days, still carries alot of it through the mist of times, you will agree I'm certain. Same as the old time classics, books, pieces of music, paintings, it stands against common evolution. Poetic, I know, but stay with me for a while longer. I'd wager, and this is a guess mind you, that when you take art that's established, unique and beautiful, throw it into a furnace, repaint it with a new shimmery coat of paint, in a new technique, with a new motive and break the old wooden frame to replace it with gold -- whatever it's become, good, bad, that's all objective -- whatever it's become, the old piece is gone, and it looses it's reserved spot in the gallery. That's my guess.

Importance? No, not really is there? I just have this thing, y'know, for principles? Yeah, I have a set of them actually, and that shit -- that shit up there, that goes against them.

Just go play through Fallout again.

I guess you'd rather piss about in Oblivion? Maybe I'm just not cut out for this millennia. Everyone's doing crack, and I'm still set on opium.

Nice post.

Good use of html in there as well.

Lets just hope Fallout 3 is cool, I don't come to these forums to argue, and call people ignorant, which by the way, please forgive me for calling you such a thing.

I'll give you the check-mate.

[St. Toxic]

You're a good, reasonable chap Leckie. Yes, let's hope Fallout 3 is cool, those of us who still dare to hope. Foaming for canon, however, I will consider as fighting for a just cause, whether it's pointless or not -- one tries, one always tries. We need not agree on that one.

[Mister Leckie]

You're a good, reasonable chap Leckie. Yes, let's hope Fallout 3 is cool, those of us who still dare to hope. Foaming for canon, however, I will consider as fighting for a just cause, whether it's pointless or not -- one tries, one always tries. We need not agree on that one.

I'll always have hope for such a great piece of art such as Fallout.


I respect your ability to stand up for your principles.

And indeed, what are we but human?

For to stand up against the opposition of one's own morals, to place one's welcome well into the unwanted, is solidly inhabiting the realm of such divine designation that such a grace becomes transparent in the inherent struggle that plagues the primitive mind,

and with that, I nod my head to you, and your strong stance, holding place for your principles.

What is a man who stands for nothing, you ask?

Well, I'd call him a man who spends his whole life on his knees.

[Dogmeatlives]

You guys kinda freak me out.
But listen, I have an idea for world navigation. Why screw with a great system? The fallout world map was great.. You travel somewhere you want to go and you go slower through the mountains and faster through the valleys and sights of importance are marked on the map by green circles, but you can stop anywhere you want and if it's in a desert area, your character will appear in a random desert area.
Sometimes there will be a junked out car or a small herd of brahmin but mostly its just desert. This will help solve Oblivion's loading in the middle of an area and help get rid of the vanishing and appearing of giant mountains and buildings that somehow weren't there before.
and sometimes you'll run into highwaymen and you'll be stopped in a desert area and in the distance a group of highwaymen are coming at you, some shooting, others weilding pipes. I think that would be a cool way to bring back the original feel.

[box]

You mean kinda like Oblivion's map, but with lines? And variable speeds?
And of course, much larger? Yeah, good idea.

Can you go to a location manually? I'd say sure, but it's gonna take FOREVER. Like "twice the size of Britain," as in Daggerfall, forever.
That way, they could really nail the feeling of there being huge expanses of wateland, a vast majority of which is uninhabited, down pat. That would go along way in fixing what I thought was a major deficiency in even Morrowind, not to mention Oblvion.

Most imprtant, they must reist the temptation to fill the map with litttle nicknacks and doohickies and things to do. If they want a lot to do, then the amount of empty space shoudl increase proportionally.

They have the potential to make a great game, even with the limitations of their FPS engine. A huge, expansive game world, inhabited by REAL PEOPLE with REAL DIALOGUE would make me a believer. Optimism. Sure.

[Lukasz-san]

Wastelands are simple. They can be random generated and boring. and that would be perfect.

F3 will be 3d for sure. but the game must be mouse based. keyboard should be only a helping device (fast load and save, character screen, menus, etc.) Like in orginal fallout. The system may be similar to KOTOR.
If they say that we can play the game only using mouse i would be happy. I dont want WSAD.

btw. 3d graphic will allow situation which we had in fall. like shooting something completly different that we aimed too, but this time we will see how that happen (example: you char. has 3 strength and tries to shoot with minigun. The result is that he tries to hold the gun while it shots everything except enemy. after the ammo runs out the gun is dropped on the floor.

[minigunwielder]

Oblivion is made for young teens, plain and simple. Every aspect of it is overly simple, from dialogues to quests.

Fallout is a game that was designed for a more mature audience, for adults. Sure I liked it at 13, but since I played it again at 20, I had a different experience and I'm liking it even more.

DONT YOU EVER INSULT YOUNG TEENS LIKE THAT AGAIN!!!

[Thor Kaufman]

Oblivion is made for young teens, plain and simple. Every aspect of it is overly simple, from dialogues to quests.

Fallout is a game that was designed for a more mature audience, for adults. Sure I liked it at 13, but since I played it again at 20, I had a different experience and I'm liking it even more.

DONT YOU EVER INSULT YOUNG TEENS LIKE THAT AGAIN!!!

shutup and revert to wristcutting

[box]

Or playing Space Monkey. That funky monkey!

How come I never had fun shit like this or Myspace when I was in high school? Shit. All we ever did was burn down barns and play huge, hundred-man games of CTF.

[Redeye]

Or playing Space Monkey. That funky monkey!

How come I never had fun shit like this or Myspace when I was in high school? Shit. All we ever did was burn down barns and play huge, hundred-man games of CTF.

I remember an old version of this from elementary school in the early 80's.

Not so new.

Things go in cycles.


I always preferred vandalism myself.


smashie smashie!


When I'm 50, I shall go about in a suit with an umbrella, a hat, and a copy of the Wall Street Journal.

Slashing tires and dropping innocuous-looking incendiaries into rubbish bins.

[Fa11lloutfan_15]

When I'm 50, I shall go about in a suit with an umbrella, a hat, and a copy of the Wall Street Journal.

Slashing tires and dropping innocuous-looking incendiaries into rubbish bins.

That sounds like me, except that I will be reading Die Zeit. That's a lot cooler.

[St. Toxic]

Yeah, I'll be running about with a copy of Mein Kampf wherever I go.