fallout tabletop wiki?

[Nicolai]

Don't you go a-stepping on my art, flowers.

[Frater Perdurabo]

I've got no idea what I'm talking about.

that's sp amusing I gotta admit I kinda.. like you

this is what I was trying to submit for deletion.

funny thing is this looks the same

[atoga]

I approve of the product placement.

[PsyckoSama]

I'm in, but some of us actually LIKE Wasteland and Fallout Tactics. They expand the scope of the setting, and It should be up to the GM if elements from those games are used!

As for the system, I recomend you take some elements from the new Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay system. It works VERY well and uses a precentage base simular to fallout.

[atoga]

i agree with your sentiment.

my idea is to do all the core canonical stuff, and then throw in the stuff from wasteland and the (good) stuff from tactics, while putting a 'this stuff is entirely optional' disclaimer on it.

the more content, the better.

systemwise, i'm hoping to just use a slightly simplified version of special which takes cues from JE sawyer's SIMPLE system (ie. skills would greatly be simplified, because i've never been a fan of the percentage system, especially on tabletop), as well as having a more expanded skill set and more content for traits, perks, weapons, etcetera.

[Jesus Christ]

I agree as well, so long as we don't counter canon, the more options for the GM the better.

But what happened to Ausir???


Ausir???


Are you still with us???


If you are still with us than get back to work slacker!


If not than…

[PsyckoSama]

I actually find D% based systems to be very easy to deal with. You have a base stat or skill, apply modifiers, then roll under it. Done and done.

The problem IMHO with directly translating fallout over is that it has too many modifiers... y

[atoga]

i could probably upload some of the stuff from jason's version as well, provided i can figure out how to use the wiki.

i always found % systems a bit silly. i prefer gurps, or je sawyer's version (where you roll 2d10+bonus and compare with a chart), because they make characters more likely to have an 'average' result with a skill.

also, they lack playability. from my own experience i find it easier to instantly add up basic modifiers for a system where you roll 1 or 2 d10s for a skill check, rather than having to add up percentages (it becomes especially tedious in combat if you're the gm). furthermore, if percent modifiers are only in increments of 5 (as was the case with my game), there's no reason to not simplify.

i think that small guns/big guns/energy weapons should be simplified into a firearms category. perhaps melee weapons, throwing, and projectile weapons could be lumped together as well (though unarmed should probably remain a separate skill).

possibly new speech skills should be created (persuasion/deception or something), as well as athletics, academic skills perhaps, and a lot more tech skills & a separate computer skill perhaps (i'm a big fan of the idea of characters using skills to build stuff).

i'll upload a bunch of rules and character creation stuff when i have time to sit down & think it out. if people don't like it, they can vandalize it, or at the very least edit it. such is the beauty of the wiki.

[chang]

Hi, I'm new here, I registered because of this thread. I would also like to contribute to the wiki once it has been set up.

I recently started to write my own fallout-based pnp but realized it would be easier working with a lot of other people.

You can find some of my ideas here >>> http://www.geocities.com/byriak/

[St. Toxic]

i think that small guns/big guns/energy weapons should be simplified into a firearms category.

:horror:

perhaps melee weapons, throwing, and projectile weapons could be lumped together as well

:terror:

possibly new speech skills should be created (persuasion/deception or something), as well as athletics, academic skills perhaps, and a lot more tech skills & a separate computer skill

Well, so much for simplification. You want 3 total combat skills, yet at the same time zounds of non-combat skills? How about go with what works, y'know, like, eh, Fallout?

[PsyckoSama]

The more I hear this, the more I don't like it...

I recomend the following... D% base, SPECIAL system

All starting skills are based off two basic added togeather and multiplied by 3 as a base with that changing to 2 or 4 based on origin. For example, Small Guns would have an average starting skill of 30, but lets say you're from the BOS, you'd get x4 to most of your advanced combat and scientific skills giving you a starting BS of 40 while your social and survival skills would be x2 while if you're a tribal you'd get a x4 for most of your survival and primitive weapons while advanced weapons and scientific skills would suffer at a x2.

Luck could be kept as a mechanic for the most part. You roll on luck to confirm a critical, you get Luck number of rerolls per gaming session, and you can perminatly loose a point of luck to avoid death.

And example of the last one is I have luck 5. Someone blows me to hell with a SMG spraying my guts all over the room. I burn a point of luck, changing the stat to a 4, and survive.

Thoughts?

And if you like I could come up with a basic skill list based on my Stat + stat x 3 concept

[atoga]

i am pro-using special. luck is quite a useful stat as it can be used to determine, and magnify the effects of, critical successes & failures.

the gm can also call for luck rolls basically whenever they feel like it (good things usually happen to the luckiest players in the party, whereas the unlucky ones tend to get the most shit flung at them). burning luck points to avoid death or other horrendous things is also a pretty cool idea.

i still find a d% system difficult to use, though. have you ever played with one? it takes forever to add up modifiers and whatnot, and the whole percentage thing is superfluous. if you look at fallout pnp now, you could easily replace the d% with a d20 and there would be no change to gameplay (since all modifiers are in increments of 5, except for a few things like range modifiers in combat and initial skill ratings, which are usually pretty much all the same for starting characters anyway, with 10 percentage points or so) - and things would be much simpler.

i am pro-streamlining combat skills but adding more noncombat skills because, for the most part, the games i play are combat-lite and heavy on dialogue/roleplaying. when i ran my campaign that way, it worked pretty well. however - i don't really know what the 'best' way to divide up skills is.

[St. Toxic]

lets say you're from the BOS... while if you're a tribal

Off topic as I may be, I'm not even sure about having BOS as a background trait. Starting as someone in a recluse pre-war tech organization?

EDIT: Some tossing around with skills.

Tag: immediate 20% bonus, 2% increase instead of 1%.

Small Guns: 5% + ( 4 X AG )

Big Guns: 0% + ( 2 X AG )
Str capped.

E Weapons: 0 + ( 2 X AG )

Unarmed: 30% + (2 X (AG+STR) )

Mele Weapons: 20% + ( 2 X (AG + STR) )

Throwing: 0% + ( 4 X AG )
Maximum distance depends on STR.

First Aid: 0% + ( 2 X (PE + EN) )
Takes 1d10 minutes ( all ap in combat? save from death? )
Heals 1d10 Hit Points
Usable X (?) times a day. ( Perhaps boost it by reducing the use limits?)

Doctor: 5% + ( PE + IN )
Crippled limbs add to time. ( 1 hourp. limb? )
2d10 hit points p. hour
Usable twice a day.

Sneak: 5% + ( 3 X AG )
Sneak skill roll once p. minute.
( Bonus to steal? )

Lockpick: 10% + ( PE + AG )
((Note Lockpicks & E Lockpicks.))

Steal: 0% + ( 3 X AG )
( We need a weight rule. +1%<30>-1% ? )

Traps: 10% + ( PE + AG )
(( Note avoiding traps ))

Science: 0% + ( 4 X IN )
(( grant bonus to repair on pre-war tech? ))
(( robot first aid? ))

Repair: 0% + ( 3 X IN )
(( robot Doctor? ))
(( sabotage ))

Pilot (?): 0% + ( 2 X ( AG + PE ) )
(( I don't think you need it ))

Speech: 0% + ( 5 X CH )

Barter: 0% + ( 4 X CH )

Gambling: 0% + ( 5 X LK )
(( Read enemy attack% ? ))
(( Work as Speech in some cases? [ Based on external roll? ] ))

Outdoorsman: 0% + ( 2 X (EN + IN) )
(( Herbalism? ))

[PsyckoSama]

i still find a d% system difficult to use, though. have you ever played with one? it takes forever to add up modifiers and whatnot, and the whole percentage thing is superfluous. if you look at fallout pnp now, you could easily replace the d% with a d20 and there would be no change to gameplay (since all modifiers are in increments of 5, except for a few things like range modifiers in combat and initial skill ratings, which are usually pretty much all the same for starting characters anyway, with 10 percentage points or so) - and things would be much simpler.

I play Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay which is a D% system once a week and have GMed the same. No, I don't find it to be a problem or superfluous at all. Infact I think it makes it idiotically simple because it does not require any freaky formulas or the like. If something it harder, make it so they have to roll lower. Its only when you over do it the modifiers that it gets bad and that can kill ANY system

i am pro-streamlining combat skills but adding more noncombat skills because, for the most part, the games i play are combat-lite and heavy on dialogue/roleplaying. when i ran my campaign that way, it worked pretty well. however - i don't really know what the 'best' way to divide up skills is.

Leave combat the way it is and just add more social skills...

Not only do some people like combat heavy games but it also keeps people from becoming good at all things combat. Though I do think that there should be some kind of synergy bonus as some skills might indirectly affect others.

lets say you're from the BOS... while if you're a tribal

Off topic as I may be, I'm not even sure about having BOS as a background trait. Starting as someone in a recluse pre-war tech organization?

Depends on the campaign and someone might be jumping into an exsisting game or replacing a dead PC so its good to have an option...

Now, I'll look over the skills later, but one thing I'll say now, it might be a good idea to standarize the formula to make things easier.

[PiP]

i think that small guns/big guns/energy weapons should be simplified into a firearms category.

are you nuts? no wait, who is this? Atoga's account has been taken over!

[atoga]

okay, here's my thing on skills. some ideas are mine, others stolen from je sawyer's thing here: http://www.diogenes-lamp.info/wiki/inde ... tle=Skills

i think we should bother to establish what skills should actually be used before we start messing around with the percentages involved.

WEAPONS-
* i don't really think that merging all guns skills encourages munchkining (it doesn't, in my experience) but at the same i don't really object if they stay the same, either.
* unarmed should remain a skill of its own, too. it should also be made more useful (through a wide variety of unarmed moves, as discussed by je sawyer. there are already rules for this sitting around... somewhere that work reasonably well)
* melee weapons should include throwing (which is a fairly useless skill, even in roleplaying, i think). it might also include the use of primitive projectile weapons, suchas crossbows, lassos, whatever. this would also make sense because most throwing weapons function as melee weapons as well.

TECH-
* science could be expanded to include science, as well as
* computer ops, perhaps.
* you could also expand repair to include electronics and mechanics. i did this in my campaign and it worked out okay, but it might render tech characters slightly impotent. (but see je sawyer's rules for building things, they're quite good and they make tech characters very useful)

THIEF-
* security - i like je sawyer's idea of putting lockpick and traps together into one skill, because it always seemed a little silly to me for lockpicking to have a skill exclusively devoted to it. but that's just me. the two skills sorta make sense together, and furthermore i like it because it makes thief characters more useful.
* steal
* sneak

SOCIAL-
* speech should be split up into (at least) deception and persuasion. you could add other categories too (in my game there was an intimidation skill) although too many and you might start to get redundant. there should DEFINATELY be more than one speech skill, though.
* barter might also be redundant, i don't know. it seems like it would make sense under perception.

OTHER SKILLS- these skills are unique because, generally, they aren't and they can't be used to solve situations in the way that the aforementioned skill sets can. however, they are still pretty nifty, and if a character does invest in them they will do some reasonably useful things.
* athletics. covers running (character can sprint at the cost of a few fatigue points, run for longer, etc.), jumping, climbing, and whatnot.
* pilot. pretty straightforward.
* medic. encompasses both doctor and first aid - as first aid is quite useless. and both basically do the same thing, but over different periods of time.
* academics. a catchall for all knowledge not covered by other skills. general lore - the gm could call for it for a player to know about the history of an area, or about foreign concepts, languages, etc. obviously, this would be mostly useful for roleplaying. could also be used for educating the ignorant masses of the wasteland and having a fake feeling of superiority.
* investigation (maybe?). je sawyer proposes this - basically, it replaces basic perception rolls when you're looking around for clues and whatnot. i'm not sure whether this is a good idea.
* outdoorsman. you could arguably split this as well (into navigating, survival, etc. which would be much more useful in a p&p game than in a crpg), but doing so gives me a headache, so i won't think about that now.

* gambling should definately get axed. it's silly to have a 'skill' based around it when it's so rarely used and, if you actually want to have it in your game, it's more fun to actually play it out (with luck checks and whatnot). i wrote some fairly sophisticated rules for gambling, although they may no longer exist because my old hard drive got reformatted and i was too lazy to back them up. i have got 'em printed out somewhere, though, so perhaps i shall dig them up.

* perks should also have more in the way of skill prerequisites (and less in terms of level prerequisites). there should also be more of the interesting perks which give skill masters special fun abilities. however, this has already been discussed to death so i'm not going to elaborate on it here.

please, discuss.

[PiP]

I dunno, I'd rather merge unarmed with melee (tho it might be too much too) than small guns with big guns. I'd rather keep the distinction between 'the minigun guy' and 'the sniper guy'. More immersive this way for me. Also, PE and EN (should) play different roles in these two.
I could do without the distinction between energy and 'standard' guns tho.

[Jesus Christ]

i think we should bother to establish what skills should actually be used before we start messing around with the percentages involved.

WEAPONS-
* i don't really think that merging all guns skills encourages munchkining (it doesn't, in my experience) but at the same i don't really object if they stay the same, either.
* unarmed should remain a skill of its own, too. it should also be made more useful (through a wide variety of unarmed moves, as discussed by je sawyer. there are already rules for this sitting around... somewhere that work reasonably well)
* melee weapons should include throwing (which is a fairly useless skill, even in roleplaying, i think). it might also include the use of primitive projectile weapons, suchas crossbows, lassos, whatever. this would also make sense because most throwing weapons function as melee weapons as well.

If we are going to merge any gun skills, I think it should be big guns with energy weapons.

I don't see how unarmed and melee weapons need to be all tht diferent. I would like to see them meged for simplefication. However if we do merge melee and throwing, than melee and unarmed must be sepeate.

TECH-
* science could be expanded to include science, as well as
* computer ops, perhaps.
* you could also expand repair to include electronics and mechanics. i did this in my campaign and it worked out okay, but it might render tech characters slightly impotent. (but see je sawyer's rules for building things, they're quite good and they make tech characters very useful)

THIEF-
* security - i like je sawyer's idea of putting lockpick and traps together into one skill, because it always seemed a little silly to me for lockpicking to have a skill exclusively devoted to it. but that's just me. the two skills sorta make sense together, and furthermore i like it because it makes thief characters more useful.
* steal
* sneak)

SOCIAL-
* speech should be split up into (at least) deception and persuasion. you could add other categories too (in my game there was an intimidation skill) although too many and you might start to get redundant. there should DEFINATELY be more than one speech skill, though.
* barter might also be redundant, i don't know. it seems like it would make sense under perception.

I think barter is a useful skill but could easily be merged with persuasion if we do split speech. Splitting speech is a great Idea to make for useful diplomat characters.

OTHER SKILLS- these skills are unique because, generally, they aren't and they can't be used to solve situations in the way that the aforementioned skill sets can. however, they are still pretty nifty, and if a character does invest in them they will do some reasonably useful things.
* athletics. covers running (character can sprint at the cost of a few fatigue points, run for longer, etc.), jumping, climbing, and whatnot.
* pilot. pretty straightforward.

Both very useful for a combat based character.

* medic. encompasses both doctor and first aid - as first aid is quite useless. and both basically do the same thing, but over different periods of time.

I think these could be merged and only allow for a "critical intervention" during combat, in which the player with the doctor/firstaid skill can stop "deadly bleeding". Outside of combat a player with this skill could try to heal both hit points and crippled limbs.

* academics. a catchall for all knowledge not covered by other skills. general lore - the gm could call for it for a player to know about the history of an area, or about foreign concepts, languages, etc. obviously, this would be mostly useful for roleplaying. could also be used for educating the ignorant masses of the wasteland and having a fake feeling of superiority.
* investigation (maybe?). je sawyer proposes this - basically, it replaces basic perception rolls when you're looking around for clues and whatnot. i'm not sure whether this is a good idea.
* outdoorsman. you could arguably split this as well (into navigating, survival, etc. which would be much more useful in a p&p game than in a crpg), but doing so gives me a headache, so i won't think about that now.

That is hurting my thinker too. Let us come back to it latter.

* gambling should definately get axed. it's silly to have a 'skill' based around it when it's so rarely used and, if you actually want to have it in your game, it's more fun to actually play it out (with luck checks and whatnot). i wrote some fairly sophisticated rules for gambling, although they may no longer exist because my old hard drive got reformatted and i was too lazy to back them up. i have got 'em printed out somewhere, though, so perhaps i shall dig them up.

If a gm would like to give the players a chance to gamble, they should really be gambling.

[PsyckoSama]

okay, here's my thing on skills. some ideas are mine, others stolen from je sawyer's thing here: http://www.diogenes-lamp.info/wiki/inde ... tle=Skills

i think we should bother to establish what skills should actually be used before we start messing around with the percentages involved.

I think we should keep the ones we got and not screw around too much...

If anything I think we need to add or clarify skills, not take away.

WEAPONS-
* i don't really think that merging all guns skills encourages munchkining (it doesn't, in my experience) but at the same i don't really object if they stay the same, either.
* unarmed should remain a skill of its own, too. it should also be made more useful (through a wide variety of unarmed moves, as discussed by je sawyer. there are already rules for this sitting around... somewhere that work reasonably well)
* melee weapons should include throwing (which is a fairly useless skill, even in roleplaying, i think). it might also include the use of primitive projectile weapons, suchas crossbows, lassos, whatever. this would also make sense because most throwing weapons function as melee weapons as well.

Okay, I absolutly hate this.

Small Guns is all about common firearms. Big Guns is about large, awkward weapons that are heavy and hard to use. Energy weapons are about complex and exotic energy weapons that are hard to understand. These skill are as much about how to maintain them as to point and shoot them. If anything though, I'd also classify that vehicle mounted weapons that don't fire freckin' laser beams are all "big guns".

Don't THOUCH Unarmed. It works as is. If you want super special techniques have them learned in RP or as perks. For example a Boxer would not know how to judo throw someone.

As for melee, what have you been smokeing and don't ever touch it again. First, throw is NOT a useless skill. Its useless in Fallout because there are so few thrown weapons and the ones you useally find suck where you are. Throw actually comes into its on in tactics where thrown explosives are far more common and are actually useful.

As for primitive ranged weapons, I'd actually reclassify them and merge them with throwing if anything and NOT melee. Atleast throwing involves range. There is a UNIVERSE of diffrence between swinging a knife and useing a long bow.

TECH-
* science could be expanded to include science, as well as
* computer ops, perhaps.
* you could also expand repair to include electronics and mechanics. i did this in my campaign and it worked out okay, but it might render tech characters slightly impotent. (but see je sawyer's rules for building things, they're quite good and they make tech characters very useful)

"science could be expanded to include science"? What the hell are you talking about?

Computers are really not common enough to make their own skill.

Repair though, I'd split that into mechanics and electronics. One deals with simple mechnical stuff like water pumps and car engines and the other with more complex prewar artificats like generators and pip boys

THIEF-
* security - i like je sawyer's idea of putting lockpick and traps together into one skill, because it always seemed a little silly to me for lockpicking to have a skill exclusively devoted to it. but that's just me. the two skills sorta make sense together, and furthermore i like it because it makes thief characters more useful.
* steal
* sneak

I can see the use of a security skill, but I'd actually split explosives off of it into a general "demolitions" skill.

Steal, I'd change to a more general "Slight of Hand"... that way you can do more with it while keeping it as the core for stealing

Sneak, I'd change it to "Stealth" and make it less about snooping around and more the skill you use when ever you want to hide something and avoid detection.

SOCIAL-
* speech should be split up into (at least) deception and persuasion. you could add other categories too (in my game there was an intimidation skill) although too many and you might start to get redundant. there should DEFINATELY be more than one speech skill, though.
* barter might also be redundant, i don't know. it seems like it would make sense under perception.

So speach should be slipt into two skills that are basically two ways of saying the same damned thing? 90% of the time persuasion is just a kinder way of saying deception.

I'd split into speech and intimidationb and maybe throw in a gossip skill for gatering information.

KEEP Barter! Its as much an art of knowing what something is worth as much as arguing the price.

OTHER SKILLS- these skills are unique because, generally, they aren't and they can't be used to solve situations in the way that the aforementioned skill sets can. however, they are still pretty nifty, and if a character does invest in them they will do some reasonably useful things.
* athletics. covers running (character can sprint at the cost of a few fatigue points, run for longer, etc.), jumping, climbing, and whatnot.
* pilot. pretty straightforward.
* medic. encompasses both doctor and first aid - as first aid is quite useless. and both basically do the same thing, but over different periods of time.
* academics. a catchall for all knowledge not covered by other skills. general lore - the gm could call for it for a player to know about the history of an area, or about foreign concepts, languages, etc. obviously, this would be mostly useful for roleplaying. could also be used for educating the ignorant masses of the wasteland and having a fake feeling of superiority.
* investigation (maybe?). je sawyer proposes this - basically, it replaces basic perception rolls when you're looking around for clues and whatnot. i'm not sure whether this is a good idea.
* outdoorsman. you could arguably split this as well (into navigating, survival, etc. which would be much more useful in a p&p game than in a crpg), but doing so gives me a headache, so i won't think about that now.

Athletics, I see no point. I'd just work off the stats for that. It makes things needlessly complex.

Academics, maybe. I'm not sure about it, but I do know the name doesn't quite fit. Maybe "Knowlidge"?

Medic, NO. First aid came into its own in tactics. Its both cheaper and more effective than stimpacks. The reason it was so goddamn useless in Fallout and Fallout 2 was because Stim Packs were a fucking dime a dozon. When they're less common and you can't afford to sleep off the wounds, its FAR more important and MUCH more useful.

Doctor is also very important for fixing incaped limbs, which I think we need to take another lesson from Tactics from and make them more common. I also think we should introduce a "bandaged" state like in tactics where basic first aid is no longer enough and the person need full fledged medical treatment.

Trust me, while its not a great game, tactics makes DAMNED clear that only an idiot doesnt have someone who knows these skils in his team. Stimpacks are expensive and if you get a serious injury you NEED a doctor's touch.

As a rule, first aid take a couple turns but CAN be used to restore hit points in combat. Infact thats the entire POINT of first aid. QUICK medical attention befoe you DIE, which in fallout is simulated by hitpoints. It is limited and can only be used so much before the medic cant do anything more for you.

Doctor takes HOURS to use by does not have the limited uses at a time as firstaid, can heal otherwise critical or debilitating injury, and can diognose and treat diseases and poison.

If anything, don't get rid of these skills. They're useful. The problem tends to be the excessive number of magic cure all potions you see floating around. Stimpacks should be something special, not your default cure for that ails you

Pilot, agree... and its also a skill in tactics.

Investigation is the same damned issue as athletics.

I's not sure outdoorsman needs to be split. While Survival is an important skill, navigation on its own is rather weak.

Tracking: A MUST have! Bountry Huners need it, hunters need it, scouts need it, any type of career that deals with finding something will need to be able to track said target.

* gambling should definately get axed. it's silly to have a 'skill' based around it when it's so rarely used and, if you actually want to have it in your game, it's more fun to actually play it out (with luck checks and whatnot). i wrote some fairly sophisticated rules for gambling, although they may no longer exist because my old hard drive got reformatted and i was too lazy to back them up. i have got 'em printed out somewhere, though, so perhaps i shall dig them up.

NO! Thats another skill that you see the true value of in tactics, its damned useful in Troika's Arcanum (which I consider one of fallout's true sister games), and its also a strong roleplaying skill.

* perks should also have more in the way of skill prerequisites (and less in terms of level prerequisites). there should also be more of the interesting perks which give skill masters special fun abilities. however, this has already been discussed to death so i'm not going to elaborate on it here.

please, discuss.

Don't fuck with the perks. Skills need to be expanded. The perks just need some adjustment and maybe afew new ones to cover new situations.

Now I know some people will drill me on mentioning tactics but it still does make effective use of some skills that were underused in Fallout.

[SuperH]

I think you are being a little to overly harsh there bud.

Also, you're looking at everything through the eyes of the game, this is a tabletop RPG. If someone wants to use throwing, the GM will put throwing items in. Just because there weren't a lot in Fallout doesn't mean there won't be when you get to make the game up yourself?

Chill out.