fallout tabletop wiki?

Make dumb suggestions so we can ignore them. I'm lovin' it.

:raymondo:?

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no
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Total votes: 17

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atoga
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Post by atoga »

"science could be expanded to include science"? What the hell are you talking about?
Science = regular old science (chemistry, biology, etc.) plus Computer Ops (more abstract stuff like mathematics, plus, obviously, computers). also, if you're going to argue for an electronics skill, then i think a computers skill is equally justified - once you start dealing with high tech areas, computers are just as common in fallout as electronics.

and this isn't fallout tactics, son, where everything is tactical warfare with hummers, battlefield injuries, and landmines. ease up. bear in mind that we're trying to make a roleplaying game, not a tactical combat one. furthermore, be flexible. i am just throwing ideas out there, you shouldn't immediately shoot them down because they don't jibe with your picture of the fallout universe.

furthermore, gambling isn't a common way of trading for items in the fallout universe except in tactics. its only use is really for playing craps in casinos and whatnot. while the perks for it should remain, it's not powerful at all.

unarmed moves are primarily basic ones (elbowing, roundhouse kicks, etc.) not boxing moves/martial arts (which are bought with perks). there are already fairly detailed rules for this though.

where should primitive missile weapons be put then? could they be incorporated under the small guns umbrella? (or we could just pretend they don't exist, i suppose)

as for speech, persuasion generally has a more diplomatic function... in my experience they don't overlap at all. i can appreciate the need for barter for merchant types in terms of being able to appraise items and whatnot though (there are a number of perks related to this).
suppose you're thinking about a plate of shrimp. suddenly somebody will say like 'plate' or 'shrimp' or 'plate of shrimp', out of the blue, no explanation.
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Post by PsyckoSama »

SuperH wrote:I think you are being a little to overly harsh there bud.

Also, you're looking at everything through the eyes of the game, this is a tabletop RPG. If someone wants to use throwing, the GM will put throwing items in. Just because there weren't a lot in Fallout doesn't mean there won't be when you get to make the game up yourself?

Chill out.
I'm not trying to be harsh. I just think that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If I came off harsh, I'm sorry. I just tend to have a rough edge at times.
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Post by PsyckoSama »

atoga wrote:
"science could be expanded to include science"? What the hell are you talking about?
Science = regular old science (chemistry, biology, etc.) plus Computer Ops (more abstract stuff like mathematics, plus, obviously, computers). also, if you're going to argue for an electronics skill, then i think a computers skill is equally justified - once you start dealing with high tech areas, computers are just as common in fallout as electronics.
I'd say they're a quite bit less so... there are far more electronics than there are computers because computers are electronics ;)

While you might have someone who digs through the boneyard digging up old tec and reparing it or stripping it down for the good parts, or a quest where you have to fix the town generator, both are far more mundain then computers which I don't think you'd run into too often to say the least.
atoga wrote:and this isn't fallout tactics, son, where everything is tactical warfare with hummers, battlefield injuries, and landmines. ease up. bear in mind that we're trying to make a roleplaying game, not a tactical combat one. furthermore, be flexible. i am just throwing ideas out there, you shouldn't immediately shoot them down because they don't jibe with your picture of the fallout universe.
Its not that they don't jive with my picture of the fallout universe, its that some GMs will play a more combat heavy or a more stimpack light world where first aid will be far more valuable.

Don't remove skills. Add new ones and clarrify the old ones. Thats my attitude
atoga wrote:furthermore, gambling isn't a common way of trading for items in the fallout universe except in tactics. its only use is really for playing craps in casinos and whatnot. while the perks for it should remain, it's not powerful at all.
true, but if you can con someone into some "friendly wagers" they you could really get some good crap for free...
atoga wrote:unarmed moves are primarily basic ones (elbowing, roundhouse kicks, etc.) not boxing moves/martial arts (which are bought with perks). there are already fairly detailed rules for this though.
alrighty
atoga wrote:where should primitive missile weapons be put then? could they be incorporated under the small guns umbrella? (or we could just pretend they don't exist, i suppose)
replace throwing with an "Archaic Projectiles" skills that covers throwing, arrows, blowguns, and all other rudimentry weapons that are not seige engines (which should use big guns as big guns is the really heavy weapons skill).
atoga wrote:as for speech, persuasion generally has a more diplomatic function... in my experience they don't overlap at all. i can appreciate the need for barter for merchant types in terms of being able to appraise items and whatnot though (there are a number of perks related to this).
my problem is that I see the major diffrence between a con and a diplomat being mostly semantics.
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Post by atoga »

athletics is good, IMO, because (unlike the investigation skill, which wasn't my idea anyway) it's definately a 'skill' which you can build up & not just a function of raw attributes. it is also pretty useful because it has a broad number of applications.

i don't really see the difference being mainly a semantic one: generally, persuasion rolls would be called for making people do things they don't want to do (intimidation could reasonably be included under this, i suppose) whereas diplomacy is more about subterfuge and it deals with more subtle things like body language and psychology (you could also include certain parts of gambling, ie. poker playing and the like, under it). it's like diplomacy/gather info vs. bluff in D&D.

i like the idea of having tracking (that could include navigation) and survival as separate skills.

edit: perhaps

Simple weapons skills
Unarmed [ST/AG]
Melee Weapons [ST/AG]
Basic Projectiles (or something) [ST/PE/AG]

Advanced weapons skills
Small Guns [PE/AG]
Big Guns [ST/PE/AG]
Energy Weapons [PE/IN/AG]

Technology skills
Mechanics [AG/PE/IN]
Electronics [PE/IN]
Science [PE/IN]

Thief skills
Sneak [PE/AG]
Steal [PE/AG]
Security [PE/IN/AG]

Diplomacy skills
Persuasion [IN/CH]
Deception [PE/CH]
Barter [PE/CH]

Survival skills
Medic [IN/PE]
Outdoorsman [EN/PE]
Tracking [PE]

Other skills…
Academics [IN]
Athletics [ST/EN/AG]
Pilot [PE/AG]

three in each skill family. that makes me happy. attributes involved are tentative.
suppose you're thinking about a plate of shrimp. suddenly somebody will say like 'plate' or 'shrimp' or 'plate of shrimp', out of the blue, no explanation.
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Post by PsyckoSama »

I still think we need a demolitions skill and I still think medic and athletcis are a VERY VERY bad idea...

I also think Persuasion and Deception are basicalyl the same damned thing and we'd do better with an intimidation and/or gather info skill

Really, we need afew other people to argue with us or we'll be circlejerking eachother endlessly.

Here's my primiary skill list. I've left off the other skills, including gambeling which I think we should keep, because in all honesty, most of the ideas I can come up with are really covered by the physical stat. An athletic person would not have a high athletics score, they'd have a high endurance and strength, one who's very observant would just have a high Preceptions. The most I think we should do for that is leave open a generic "specialized skills" section and give some examples... like academics, athletics, and gambeling but ballance them so they don't outsine the aproperiate stat.

Simple weapons skills
Unarmed
Melee Weapons
Archeic Ranged Weapons

Advanced weapons skills
Small Guns
Big Guns
Energy Weapons

Technological skills
Mechanics
Electronics
Demolitions

Thief skills
Stealth (Sneak)
Slight of Hand (Steal)
Security

Diplomacy skills
Speech
Intimidate
Barter

Scientific Skills
Science
Doctor (which also covers knowledge of medical science)
First Aid

Travel skills
Outdoorsman
Tracking
Piloting
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Post by Jesus Christ »

I like atoga's idea, with the exceptions of:

Simple weapons skills
Unarmed [ST/AG]
Melee Weapons [ST/AG]
Basic Projectiles [ST/PE/AG]

Advanced weapons skills
Small Guns [PE/AG]
Big Guns [ST/PE/AG]
Energy Weapons [PE/IN/AG]

Technology skills
Mechanics [AG/PE/IN]
Electronics [PE/IN]
Science [PE/IN]

Thief skills
Sneak [PE/AG]
Steal [PE/AG] (I like Sama’s idea of Slight of Hand, because it can be more versatile, like for card tricks at a party or something.)
Security [PE/IN/AG]

Diplomacy skills
Persuasion [IN/CH]
Deception [PE/CH]
Barter [PE/CH]

Survival skills
Medic [IN/PE] (I reiterate “I think Firstaid and doctor could be merged and only allow for a "critical intervention" during combat, in which the player with the medic skill can stop "deadly bleeding". Outside of combat a player with this skill could try to heal both hit points and crippled limbs.�)
Outdoorsman [EN/PE]
Tracking [PE]

Other skills…
Academics [IN] (I don’t much see academics as being a useful skill.)
Athletics [ST/EN/AG]
Pilot [PE/AG]
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Post by PsyckoSama »

I still say combining Doctor and First Aid makes them too damned powerful as skills and I also think that the biological science aspect of the Science skill should be combined into doctor if its not already.
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Post by Jesus Christ »

I don’t see how combing the two would make too powerful of a skill, as long as the required skill level to successfully heal a crippled limb are relatively high.

As for combining the bio with doc' or medic it's not a terrible idea, but instead of making a "demolition" skill, perhaps a generic chemistry skill which could be used in making other concoctions as well.
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Post by minigunwielder »

For those of us who think branching skills is intelligent(example uses repair):

......................._Electronics#number of points in repair you invest here
.......................l
Repair:#herelllll
.......................l_Mechanical#number of points in repair you invest here

If its going to be done, for Ollidammara's sake do it that way so I can save time making my char sheet, and so synergies are easy to track.


Feedback is welcome on that idea
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Post by Speed_demon »

FIXED sry for the aneurysm Blargh

i went the other direction with how i put together my system. there is over 350 skills to choose from, with main "parent" skills and secondary "children" skills.

Eg. Engineering is a main skill, Chemical Engineering is the secondary skill of enginnering. The percentage of the secondary skill is limited to half the Main skill. Ex. Enginnering 50% means that Chemical Engineering can be as high as 25%, no higher. All modern firearms are under the Aim Main skill, and there is a logical representation of other skills, from Blacksmithing to Botany.

This may seem exreme, but the character sheet is on an Excel sheet, and all calcualtions are automatic. It even calculates average weight from the Attribute ratings. I used Milleniums End as the basis for the system and it is coming along nicely. Weapon damage and healing is worked out into plausible numbers. THere are no "hit points" as its a "non-ablative" system, with damage being derived from a chart, which takes into account locational damage. Ex. someone gets shot in the leg, movement is at a penalty, among others.

It's not as complicated as it seems, and is quite fluid once you understand the principals. Armor works in a similar fashion as Fallout, and encumberance is derived from strength. Mutation have been included as well, and some skills give a small bonus to attributes Ex. running skill gives a bonus to the Constitution Attribute.

You wont have much luck finding Milleniums End in any book store, as it is out of print.

I can make a (general) character in less than 10 minutes with it, fleshed out and equiped.
Any questions? :?
Last edited by Speed_demon on Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Blargh »

paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph. paragraph paragraph paragraph 350 paragraphs paragraph paragraph paragraph, paragraph paragraph 'paragraph' paragraphs paragraph paragraph 'paragraph' paragraphs.
Paragraph. Paragraphing paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph, Pargraph Paragraphing paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph. Paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph Paragraph paragraph. Paragraph. Paragraph 50% paragraph paragraph Paragraph Paragraphing paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph 25%, paragraph paragraph. Paragraph paragraph paragraphs paragraph paragraph paragraph Paragraph Paragraph paragraph, paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraphs, paragraph Paragraphing paragraph Paragraph. Paragraph paragraph paragraph pararaph, paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph Paragraph paragraph, paragraph paragraph paragrah paragraph paragraph. Paragraph paragraph paragraphs paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph Paragraph paragraphs. Paragraph paragraph Paragraphs Paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph. Paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraphed paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraphs. PAragraph paragraph paragraph 'paragraph paragraphs' paragraph paragraphs paragraph 'paragraph-paragraph' paragraph, paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraphed paragraph paragraph paragraph, paragraph paragraphs paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph. Paragraph. paragraph paragraphs paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph, paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph, paragraph paragraphs. Paragraphs paragraph paragraph paragraphed paragraph paragraph paragraphs, paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraphs. Paragraph paragraphs paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph Paragraph, paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraphed paragraph paragraph. Paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraphed paragraph paragraph, paragraph paragraph paragraphs paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraphs Paragraph. paragraphing paragraph paragraphs paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph Paragraph Paragraph. Paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraphing Paragraphs Paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph, paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph paragraph.
Paragraph paragraph paragraph 10 paragraphs paragraph paragraph, paragraphed paragraph paragraph paragraphed.
Paragraph paragraphs ? :drunk:
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Post by Speed_demon »

had a brain itch,
Skills (as i see them in this type of discussion)

Small Firearms (bullet shooters, pistols, rifles, shotguns, AR's, gauss)
Launched Weapons (bows, thrown weapons)
Heavy Weapons (MG's rocket launcers, grenade launchers, miniguns etc)
Energy Weapons (laser, plasma, flamethrowers)
Unarmed/Melee Weapons

Diplomacy (speech and barter)
Medical (first aid and doctor)
Repair (electrical and mechanical)
Engineering (for understanding and making/repairing complex technical stuff)
Academics (history, science, math, psychology, high brow stuff)

Scout (sneaking and outdoorsman)
Plunder (lockpick and steal AKA pick-pocket)
Pilot (driving)
Traps/demolition

EDIT no comments? i know, i rock
Last edited by Speed_demon on Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Hatchen »

From the sounds of it, the simple system you may want to look at is the d6 system. I used to go to RPG sessions for Star Wars that used this. It seems like the SPECIAL system could possibly be converted into the d6 system. For one thing, you can have six to eight primary stats. Well SPECIAL has seven, shouldn't be too hard to convert. Each Primary stat has points put into it at the start, generally stays the same after tha. The more points into it, the better they are become. With the D6 system, your stats get better with the more points you stick into it. Another similarity is that skills correspond with the Primary Stats. The better the stats, the better the skills corresponding to those stats are.

Another thing to consider is that you don't have to get the players to mathematically find out what all their stats percentages are. You just have to add dice points to it. You also don't have to stick down every single skill; the primary stats dice are used in the place of the skills they did not add dice to. The player just writes down the skills they think best suites their character.

Races would not be a problem, well, more so Human sub divisions. The mutated humans just have modifiers to their stats. There can also be Primary stat limitations. Not only you can have races, but also job templates along-side them. These give you the Primary stats and skills you need for each job, plus anything that only the job gives the character. For example, a vault dweller citizen template could have most of the primary stats into Intelligence (skills: Mechanical, Science; Computer, Medical) and charisma (Persuasion, barter, sense motive) while a Mutant warrior would probably have his strength (skills: Melee, throwing, lifting, unarmed) and endurance (skill: Running, climbing, jumping, swimming) higher. The templates also give the characters a set of starting items.

One of you has mentioned of some sort of difficulty modifier chart for tasks. This could easily done with the d6 system. There are set number for easy to heroic tasks (you have to roll the set number or above) The player just has to roll their d6's and their total sum is compared to the chart. If they don't make the specified number, they fail. If they do make it, they succeed. If they make it to a higher difficulty category (for example: they only need to make difficult, but they role heroic) their action is done with some good modifiers involved. Other modifiers include the Critical hit or miss. This is done easily too. The player just picks one dice to be a "wild Die". If this die rolls six, well, roll again until you don't and add up those points. If one is rolled, well, roll till you don't have a one and take away your highest number.

There are some things from fallout that would revise some of the rules of the d6, like perks and traits. Though the d6 system has no levels, these could be dealt with. Traits, as before, could just be picked at the start. No problem there. Just some numbers have to be changed. For perks, you just keep track on how many points you earn each time you end a session. Sure you can still spend them, but keep track on how many you have made and add them with points accumulated from other sessions. At a certain amount of these points, you can get a perk. Now, with traits, you could just it as if you were specialising in a skill. For Example: Instead of specialising in melee; knives, you can still have three traits and stick it on a skill without having to specialise on a specific aspect of it, Melee: all.

There is much more to d6, so I will just provide some links. I am not saying that this is the way to go with fallout, but it can be a possible direction. All there is to it is read the information in the links and see what you think. Then decide if it will work or a horribly bad idea.

Note:
Most of these links are games with the D6 system implemented into them, one is just with some of the rules only.

Links:

P.s:
Do you want any more traits? I can send a bunch of extra traits and perks that i found on the internet besides some of the ones already shown to you.
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Post by atoga »

sounds pretty intriguing, i'll check it out :salute: i have been meaning to do some work on this, but the discussion sorta died.
Hatchen wrote:Do you want any more traits? I can send a bunch of extra traits and perks that i found on the internet besides some of the ones already shown to you.
sure thing, you could email them or just post them here.
suppose you're thinking about a plate of shrimp. suddenly somebody will say like 'plate' or 'shrimp' or 'plate of shrimp', out of the blue, no explanation.
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Post by Speed_demon »

Hmmm... D6 is best used for quick and dirty systems, but i understand your point. When i first started converting Fallout to a pen & paper, dice game AKA tabletop game, i used the Shadowrun sytem. Easy to assemble and run, but the adding of dice or a bonus (ex 2D6+2) is a sloppy way of doing it, as the dice totals get large, and you start having an ordeal every time you roll a skill u r good at. In the last shadowrun game i was in, we would be rolling over 20 D6's, sometimes over 30 (we had some crazy experienced and specialized MOFO's) it just started TO SUCK. then u got to count all the fuckin dice without knocking them over, miscounting ect. too much hassle, so i am converting it to a much better D% (D100) system with non-ablative (no hit points) system... I was never really happy with hit points any ways, its just arbitrarily relative and luck on the roll of the dice. I have next semester off from school so i will likely do some work on it, and might even have a sample for perusal.

Post everything u can about this stuff!!! share ideas, they will be listened to. :clap:
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Post by Jesus Christ »

atoga wrote:the discussion sorta died.
People must be studying for exams.
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Post by Speed_demon »

yeah, school takes up too much of my Fallout time!!!
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Post by Hatchen »

Ha, school tends to make one stray from "more important" things.

Ya, having lots of dice would suck if you had to roll over thirty. But, like the fallout game, couldn’t you just make it only go so high before you just can't put any more into that skill (fallout had ridiculous 300%, yes, that was high, but there was still a limit)? This would work especially if you have someone that has a specialised skill. Heck, make them only be able to specialise one skill only, because hey, if you have the tags as well, that might screw the balance. Another idea that can be added to the previous on is make them skills cost lots and lots of experience points (character points for some).

Here was how Star Wars limited a large amount going into one particular skill:
1. Each pip cost the same amount of dice as you had into your skill
2. Three Pips/ 1 dice
3. Make each pip cost the same as your dice in that current skill. If you want to increase your primary attributes, make it current die x ten.
4. Specialised skills were half the normal spending points. If fallout was d6, traits either take place or are played along with specialised skills.

Say you are at a whopping 8d6. To get to 8d6+1 you would have to spend 8 character points. To get to 8d6+2 you had to spend another 8 character points. This is the same thing if you are at 11d6 and you want to go right up to 12d6, you have to spend 22 character points. Some might think about spending those 22 points into bringing up those lower skills instead.

Since specialised skill spending points are halved, you might want to think about doing some sort of trade off to balance normal and specialised skills. Here is my idea. If you don't specialise, your dice limit is much higher than a specialised skill. So in normal skills, you can't upgrade as quick but you can stick more dice into it. In the other, you can upgrade 2 times as fast but have a more limited amount of dice max. For example: Unspecialised skill can go up to, say… 15. Specialised can only go up to 10 or 12.

If that does not work, why not make character points a bit harder to get or the amount to get into one pip a bit higher? Well, that is all for now.
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Post by Speed_demon »

Hatchen wrote:Ha, school tends to make one stray from "more important" things.

Ya, having lots of dice would suck if you had to roll over thirty. But, like the fallout game, couldn’t you just make it only go so high before you just can't put any more into that skill (fallout had ridiculous 300%, yes, that was high, but there was still a limit)? This would work especially if you have someone that has a specialised skill. Heck, make them only be able to specialise one skill only, because hey, if you have the tags as well, that might screw the balance. Another idea that can be added to the previous on is make them skills cost lots and lots of experience points (character points for some).

Here was how Star Wars limited a large amount going into one particular skill:
1. Each pip cost the same amount of dice as you had into your skill
2. Three Pips/ 1 dice
3. Make each pip cost the same as your dice in that current skill. If you want to increase your primary attributes, make it current die x ten.
4. Specialised skills were half the normal spending points. If fallout was d6, traits either take place or are played along with specialised skills.

Say you are at a whopping 8d6. To get to 8d6+1 you would have to spend 8 character points. To get to 8d6+2 you had to spend another 8 character points. This is the same thing if you are at 11d6 and you want to go right up to 12d6, you have to spend 22 character points. Some might think about spending those 22 points into bringing up those lower skills instead.

Since specialised skill spending points are halved, you might want to think about doing some sort of trade off to balance normal and specialised skills. Here is my idea. If you don't specialise, your dice limit is much higher than a specialised skill. So in normal skills, you can't upgrade as quick but you can stick more dice into it. In the other, you can upgrade 2 times as fast but have a more limited amount of dice max. For example: Unspecialised skill can go up to, say… 15. Specialised can only go up to 10 or 12.

If that does not work, why not make character points a bit harder to get or the amount to get into one pip a bit higher? Well, that is all for now.
that doesnt look easy at all, and it doesnt make sense to me
i hate pips
(the only exception is pipboy, as it is a useful travelling tool)
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Post by Hatchen »

Hmm, maybe I explained it badly. Well, maybe this diagram will make things clear. But if it does not, tie me up and leave me in the wastes for rad scorpion food.

Image
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